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Old 05-27-2019, 01:39 PM   #1
jcb-memphis
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Default tires for the pragmatic high performance driver (STI 19)

Hi,

On a 19 STI...stock.

Is it a dumb idea to go to an 18" but 9.5" wide wheel? - would go all season.

Thanks.

Jeff
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Last edited by jcb-memphis; 06-08-2019 at 10:22 AM.
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Old 06-10-2019, 10:44 PM   #2
Patrick Olsen
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Not a dumb idea at all.
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Old 06-11-2019, 10:01 AM   #3
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Personally I think sidewalls shorter than 3.5 inch is stupid for street.
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Old 06-12-2019, 08:56 PM   #4
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if you want all seasons, your idea of "high performance" is different than mine.
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Old 06-13-2019, 12:15 PM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by n2oiroc View Post
if you want all seasons, your idea of "high performance" is different than mine.
lol....

OP you want summer tires, and a dedicated winter set. You'll be sacrificing something (grip in wet, colder conditions etc) if you go all seasons.
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Old 06-14-2019, 12:36 AM   #6
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What do you mean as "high performance" like others have brought up? Are you looking for a tire you can use all year round and do some spirited driving? Or looking for a tire that can hold up to track abuse also? This would help others point you in the right direction.

For what it's worth, I just went to Pilot Sport A/S 3+ and waiting for them to be mounted. From my research and speaking to people with experience with all the pilots, it seems as these are a happy medium on a tire that you can enjoy some spirited driving but have an all-season tire. At the same time, the person I talked to said if you are going to use them on a track, they can work but you will go right through them.

I can let you know how the all seasons are once I get them back this weekend and on the car if you'd like.
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Old 06-14-2019, 12:58 PM   #7
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I personally am becoming a big fan of the UHP AS tires - e.g. the Pilot Sport A/S 3+ mentioned above.

For long shoulder seasons like in MN - where the spring & fall have lows that make "proper" summer tires unsuitable, but also highs that will chew up winters - the UHP AS category is great for those conditions while not sacrificing too much daily-driving performance.
Alternatively if you only get snow once or twice a year and don't want to swap over to winters for that, these may be an OK compromise year-round. Not sure what your winter weather looks like in MD though.

The Pilot A/S 3+ are on my car now (as "summers"), and since the change-over from my Blizzaks the Pilots have seen sub-freezing temps as well as a mild snow with some ice, and 90-degree days. They do OK in the wintery conditions, with the caveat that you need to realize they're not going to accelerate, turn, and stop like a winter tire; and also perform around 90% as well as a true summer sport tire in the hot.
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Old 06-15-2019, 10:26 AM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by vlad11591 View Post
lol....

OP you want summer tires, and a dedicated winter set. You'll be sacrificing something (grip in wet, colder conditions etc) if you go all seasons.
I understand that having summer + winter tires is better, but is there not any "good enough" performing all-season tires?
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Old 06-15-2019, 01:52 PM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AerialSnack View Post
I understand that having summer + winter tires is better, but is there not any "good enough" performing all-season tires?
a corolla is "good enough". why buy a performance car just to neuter it and make it perform worse than stock?
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Old 06-15-2019, 02:55 PM   #10
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A pragmatic high performance driver would have nothing less than “max performance summers” on his/ her car.
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Old 07-14-2019, 07:56 PM   #11
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Pilot Sport A/S 3+ are great
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Old 07-14-2019, 11:07 PM   #12
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Winter tires will not just grenade themselves if driven in temps above 45 degrees. I've driven in near 70 degree temps in the fall/winter when you get those kind of days with no adverse tire wear.

If you can swing it financially dedicated winter/summer setup is best. Winter tire stopping distances are so much less than any other tire in the winter.
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Old 07-15-2019, 05:40 PM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AerialSnack View Post
I understand that having summer + winter tires is better, but is there not any "good enough" performing all-season tires?
That depends very much on what any given individual's definition of "good enough" might be. That said, the Michelin's UHP all-season tires have typically been about as close to "UHP" as AS tires have gotten so far.

I ran one of Michelin's predecessors to the current PS AS3+, and while they were very, very good as all-seasons go, their "feel" during very enthusiastic cornering (occasionally well beyond 0.5g) wasn't up at the Pilot Super Sport level. This was same size tires on same width wheels on our LGT, normally swapping sets around late October and late March and doing nothing else.

I've also driven on some sets of OE all-season tires that were flat-out terrible in the rain either from the get-go (BFG KDWS) or once the small sipes had worn much (Bridgestone RE-92).


Quote:
Originally Posted by Scorpius View Post
Winter tires will not just grenade themselves if driven in temps above 45 degrees. I've driven in near 70 degree temps in the fall/winter when you get those kind of days with no adverse tire wear.
As long as you don't beat on them like they were your summer tires, you should be OK. But their ultimate performance, handling "feel", and breakaway characteristics at such temperatures won't be as good as summer tires or even all-seasons.


Norm
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Old 07-16-2019, 03:40 PM   #14
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Hi,
Thanks everyone (OP here) -

https://forums.nasioc.com/forums/sho...postcount=8196

I had a high HP car in the past, HPDE'd a bit. I was allowed to solo ... once you actually drive on the track, you cannot possibly suggest the Michelin as 3+ is lacking for anything legal or above that is rational on the street. IMHO only of course. I dd the car.

Anyway, for the street, went with Michelin AS 3+ tires on 18" Mach V flow formed "Crucial" rims at 19.5 pounds a wheel (fastwrx.com) - tires came from Tire Rack (next day, great price, rebate even)... a 9.5" rim - so 265/35/18's. Treads are flush....sidewalls have subtel "poke" - a bit more than I expected with the 42mm offset (most shops say 38mm works great...).

Stock suspension. Had adjustable coilovers on that high HP car. I actually like this car stock just as much. And no driveway worries. Clears brakes just fine.

The Michelin is a relative wide 265. Sidewalls are very protective of the wheel. Michelins balanced perfectly out of the box. Amazing. Second time this happended to me and speaks to their q/c.




Opinion after some time, in very hot weather, and in rain (heavy):

Superior dynamically to the OEM max summer Yoko's to whatever can and should be done on the street. Better turn in.

18's feel better. No loss in control. Sidewall on these is actually stiffer feeling than the yoko's....but less jarring/high frequency noise gets to my hands. Feels less gyroscopic if that is a word...the stockers are not bad, these are just better.

Lost 6 pounds per corner on arguably a stronger wheel (flow forged versus the OEM 19" cast wheels). Potholes are real too...so sidewall of the 19" wheels sort of looks like a set up to spend money later.

Unless you are 10/10th on track and are "above good" these Michelins are equal to a max summer and can handle colder air...and rain. Amazing tire. Tire Rack suggested, given my priorities, that this was the one to get - and in their hands it was equal to the conti dws in snow...

Again, thanks. The 18" option is a winner and is recommended. To me, this size/sidewall looks better than the stock 19" tires ...to me the car sits best on 18s. Subaru races on the Nurburgring on 18's for a good reason I suspect too.

Last edited by jcb-memphis; 07-18-2019 at 05:55 AM.
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Old 07-16-2019, 05:39 PM   #15
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Would love to see some pictures!
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Old 07-16-2019, 06:09 PM   #16
Norm Peterson
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jcb-memphis View Post
Hi,
Thanks everyone (OP here) -

https://forums.nasioc.com/forums/sho...postcount=8196

I had a high HP car in the past, HPDE'd a bit. I was allowed to solo ... once you actually drive on the track, you cannot possibly suggest the Michelin as 3+ is lacking for anything legal or above that is rational on the street. IMHO only of course. I dd the car.
If you're aiming that at me, I didn't mean to imply that the 3+ is in any way "lacking". At least not as all-seasons go, and certainly not as far as street driving is concerned. But like the PSS still had a slight edge over the 'A/S plus' that could be picked up in A-B driving from immediately before to right after swapping, I fully expect the same to hold true between the PS4S and the 3+. Let the car sit for a week before the 'B' drive, maybe it'd be harder to notice or you might not pick it up at all.

I also get out on the track - solo - from time to time, but that's been a relatively recent addition to the breadth of my driving resume, and I never needed that level of experience to feel differences between different tires. Most times, 5/10ths or less was pushing it hard enough, and at least once just a gently-driven 90° turn at the end of my block was all it took.


I do think you made a good choice for you, which may well be more 'practical' for most people than the PSS/3+ or PS4S/3+ swap arrangement I see in our WRX's future.


Norm
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Old 07-16-2019, 06:45 PM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mike2100 View Post
Would love to see some pictures!
Link in my post ->
https://forums.nasioc.com/forums/sho...postcount=8196




While the following was with the prior tire, the A/S 3 (no plus), I think it holds true. And I think that tire compounds and design for a road car will ultimately make these tires plenty for anything until you need "R compounds"....until then, I like having tires that are as good as summers in summer and can stay on the car in rain, and 30 degree days that I see in my geography. And tip toe in the snow... No allusions in snow despite the fact that two Tire Rack people swore to me that they are better than DWS06's in snow in their formal testing. The plus mind you. IF that is true, and I think it likely is, wow. Here is the reviewer's conclusion from the prior tire model now years out of date but interesting nonetheless:

From: https://www.liveabout.com/review-mic...-sport-3234351 ->
The Bottom Line:

Most of the time, tire testing is highly subjective. Except in braking tests, where it's possible to get empirical data, I try to experience and compare the “feel” and “performance” from one tire to another as best I can. Given that all these tires will eventually go on different cars, different suspension setups, with different drivers, and even that the reviewers have different styles and methods of reviewing; when we reviewers are being honest with ourselves I think we know that a truly objective comparison is simply impossible.

Having said that, in my opinion the Pilot Sport A/S 3 edged out the Potenza RE970AS on the wet course – not by much, mind you, but enough to feel the difference. On the dry course, the Pilot Sports simply blew away a set of top-of-the-line summer tires so completely that I found it difficult to believe - even after thoroughly annoying some of Michelin's people by taking air pressure and tread depth readings just to make sure. I didn't expect to find any funny business, and I didn't, in fact I learned more about how the tires heat-cycle than anything else. However, I have learned in my not-so-vast experience that some companies are not above trying to nudge their reviews on occasion.

So while the Pilot Sport A/S 3 is probably not nearly an All-Weather tire in the class of, say, Nokian's WRG2 and their actual treadwear and capability in snow is unknown as yet, when it comes to Ultra High Performance tires, few can even come close. These are definitely bleeding-edge tires at the very top of their class, and boy are they fun to drive.

The Michelin Pilot Sport A/S 3 will be available in the summer of 2013, in 65 sizes ranging from 175/65/R15 to 285/35/ZR20

Last edited by jcb-memphis; 07-17-2019 at 06:23 AM.
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Old 07-17-2019, 09:54 PM   #18
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Looks great, glad you like the setup. Please do report back if you discover any unexpected negative side effects. If none I think this wheel/tire size and AS3+ will be my future setup. Thank you for sharing
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