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Old 10-20-2020, 11:53 AM   #1
tarheelalum
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Default Second Throw out Bearing failure. Time to sell?

I have a 2017 WRX daily driver with around 55k. I've never modified it in anyway nor do I drive it hard. I'll have some fun going around corners sometimes but that is about it. The throw out bearing failed last December around 43k. It started rattling again a few months ago but I just thought it was the noisy engine people talk about. But it was rattling pretty good the other day and it stopped when I engaged the clutch so I'm pretty sure it has failed again this time at around 55k. They said they used the newly designed throw out bearing when they fixed it last time but who knows if they were telling the truth of not. But as I sit at my Subaru dealers service center today I'm wondering if this problem going to occur every year now? I have the 100k factory warranty on it but when that's gone I'll be on my own. I like to keep my cars for at least 10 years but I don't know if that is going to be reasonable with this WRX. Has anyone got the throw out bearing fixed and not had another issue with it again? Will getting a new clutch solve the problem? Or should I just get rid of it?
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Old 10-20-2020, 12:22 PM   #2
Samurai Jack
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Probably a bad throwout bearing from the beginning.

Find out what they are actually using. Tell them you would like to see the part number so you can look it up yourself and see what you are getting.

Ask them why it failed so quickly. Should not have done that
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Old 10-20-2020, 12:23 PM   #3
krenberry
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Interesting. I bought my 2016 wrx brand new and have NEVER changed the TOB (currently at 120k miles). My TOB definitely "squeals" only when i engage/push in the clutch on humid or rainy days, but never makes noises when Im off the clutch as you state. Curious as to what happened (symptoms/noises) when it "failed" the first time???

Note: I got quoted around $2,000 at my local CT dealership (no warranty left) to replace the TOB, even though there is a recall/TSB out on it and its a known issue with our models (included clutch replacement, etc.). I guess you have to get it replaced within a certain time of the TSB notice for it to be covered? Long story short, I laughed/saved $2,000 and that thing keeps squealing!
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Old 10-20-2020, 02:44 PM   #4
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Well I just got a call from the dealer and they told me one of their employees ran my car into something and messed up my front end God knows how many days to fix that. They gave me a crappy crosstek to drive until it gets fixed. They say it needs new front plastic end. I went and saw the damage and it wasn't horrible but it was significant cosmetically.

As far as the TOB goes, the service rep said they had a new TSB come out and they now will replace the entire clutch assembly and the pedal. Who knows if that will work. I asked them the last time they "fixed" the TOB last year if they would replace the clutch as well since the bad bearing was probably damaging the clutch but the dealer refused to do it. They did say they would replace it if I wanted to pay 1000 dollars. I said no thanks.

Last edited by tarheelalum; 10-20-2020 at 03:21 PM.
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Old 10-20-2020, 03:18 PM   #5
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If you don't like the Crosstrek loaner, ask to swap with them for a Legacy. Every time I've been given a loaner, it's been a Legacy. Nice cars.

Let them keep fixing the car on their dime. I always look at warranty service as a time of zero miles while I put miles on their loaner. I did it with my Fusion also, for the airbag recall where a judge made Ford pay for Enterprise loaners for owners who felt scared to drive the car with the recalled passenger side airbag. I used the word "scared", knowing that that was the trigger to get me a free rental. I had that one for 2 weeks. A focus with the infamous dual clutch.

Since you have the warranty, keep it at least until the warranty expires. If at that point, you don't trust it, you could sell or bring it to a competent Subaru mechanic (not a dealer) to fix it correctly with parts that'll last.
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Old 10-20-2020, 03:52 PM   #6
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For one thing a bad TOB will not harm the clutch in any way so there was no legitimate reason they should have done that anyhow.
So this time around they are replacing all kinds of stuff.

Sucks about the body damage but you have plenty of warranty. Out of 4 manuals I have owned or do own and put well over 400k total miles on I have never had one throw out bearing issue ever.
I wouldn't worry so much about this, I think you just got unlucky, plus it is getting fixed for free.
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Old 10-20-2020, 05:00 PM   #7
tarheelalum
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rtv900 View Post
For one thing a bad TOB will not harm the clutch in any way so there was no legitimate reason they should have done that anyhow.
So this time around they are replacing all kinds of stuff.
.
I know. They are even replacing the pedal I step on to engage the clutch. Honestly it sounds like they don't have a clue and they are just throwing parts in it and hoping they get lucky. Or maybe they are trying to make me happy because they wrecked my car. Who knows? Other than this TOB issue the car has been great. But if it fails again after this I'm going to move on.
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Old 10-21-2020, 07:16 AM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tarheelalum View Post
I know. They are even replacing the pedal I step on to engage the clutch. Honestly it sounds like they don't have a clue and they are just throwing parts in it and hoping they get lucky..
They are replacing the pedal because it is all one assembly. It has nothing to do with the pedal you step on.
It's a manual hydraulic pump that actuates the throw out bearing, no different than if it were a hand lever. Just happens to have a foot pedal at the end.
That is a logical step in a fluke situation where you have two failures in 55k miles when typically there are zero in quadruple that amount of time.
Basically you are getting a whole new hydraulic system beginning to end.
I'd be happy if I were you other than the headache.
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Old 10-21-2020, 12:34 PM   #9
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the 2nd bearing probably failed because they didnt lube it properly during install, I mean *****, if they are driving the car into walls, I wouldnt trust them to fix it properly. I would have taken it somewhere else(a local to you subaru performance shop) and insisted the dealer pay for it and had an EXEDY HD clutch and TOB installed.
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Old 10-21-2020, 12:52 PM   #10
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i had this happen once on a diesel...the friction disc wore prematurely 2x in less than 5k miles...we told the driver to keep their foot off the clutch and replaced all the items, no problems after that...or at least no more returns on it lol
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Old 10-21-2020, 01:36 PM   #11
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Quote:
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the 2nd bearing probably failed because they didnt lube it properly during install,
I've never seen a throw out bearing that wasn't pre lubed, otherwise it could not have seals and it would last 2 months in that environment
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Old 10-22-2020, 10:53 PM   #12
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I've never seen a throw out bearing that wasn't pre lubed, otherwise it could not have seals and it would last 2 months in that environment
No one takes apart a TOB to lube it You dont just throw it in though either. It can be checked very easily for drag before install, and the contact surfaces require lube.

Its unlikely there were 2 TOB that were bad, the 2nd one simply wasnt installed properly..

I mean the techs are driving dudes car into walls LMAO,,,I wouldnt touch that place with a 10 foot pole, I'd run, run fast and far away from that place and have a bit better clutch than stock installed by a professional well renouned subaru shop that was in the area that didnt drive customers cars into walls, and knew how to install clutch parts properly.
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Old 10-23-2020, 08:18 AM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NighthawkSTI View Post
No one takes apart a TOB to lube it You dont just throw it in though either. It can be checked very easily for drag before install, and the contact surfaces require lube.

Its unlikely there were 2 TOB that were bad, the 2nd one simply wasnt installed properly..
not so sure man.
You don't want to lube the functional contact surfaces of a TOB. Those surfaces are what you want to grip the surfaces they are touching.
Think about it.
One surface touches the finger plates. You want zero relative motion there, so grease would make it worse.
Then a fork holds the bearing, or a similar method in order to depress and retract it.
Again, you want zero relative motion there, otherwise it would want to spin. In the case of a hydraulic one obviously that would tear the lines, so no motion there.

Internally is the only place you want motion, which is the sealed bearing.

So correct me if I am not understanding something about throw out bearings but like I said, it is a sealed bearing greased at the factory and there are no other areas you want lubrication.
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Old 10-23-2020, 10:01 AM   #14
NighthawkSTI
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not so sure man.
You don't want to lube the functional contact surfaces of a TOB. Those surfaces are what you want to grip the surfaces they are touching.
Think about it.
One surface touches the finger plates. You want zero relative motion there, so grease would make it worse.
Then a fork holds the bearing, or a similar method in order to depress and retract it.
Again, you want zero relative motion there, otherwise it would want to spin. In the case of a hydraulic one obviously that would tear the lines, so no motion there.

Internally is the only place you want motion, which is the sealed bearing.

So correct me if I am not understanding something about throw out bearings but like I said, it is a sealed bearing greased at the factory and there are no other areas you want lubrication.
I get your theory but its not the correct way to install them ,the input shaft of the transmission needs to be coated with grease as are the contact points for the clutch fork,the opposite of what you are saying, because you dont want parts to get locked together, or have friction that can cause noise, heat, binding or groves worn into the mating surfaces, you want free movement and as frictionless as possible.
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Old 10-23-2020, 10:20 AM   #15
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it doesn't touch the input shaft, that would be a big problem
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Old 10-23-2020, 10:29 AM   #16
NighthawkSTI
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Originally Posted by rtv900 View Post
it doesn't touch the input shaft, that would be a big problem
I dont think you know what you are talking about...there are THREE contact points that need to be lubed. Go do some research and come back...but I digress, never have a shop that has techs that drive cars into walls, work on your car LMAO.

Last edited by NighthawkSTI; 10-23-2020 at 10:37 AM.
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Old 10-23-2020, 10:52 AM   #17
rtv900
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NighthawkSTI View Post
I dont think you know what you are talking about...there are THREE contact points that need to be lubed. Go do some research and come back...but I digress, never have a shop that has techs that drive cars into walls, work on your car LMAO.
smh
You know the input shaft is splined right?
Ever seen a splined throw out bearing?

me neither

like I said, it doesn't touch that, that would be a problem
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Old 10-23-2020, 02:04 PM   #18
NighthawkSTI
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Originally Posted by rtv900 View Post
smh
You know the input shaft is splined right?
Ever seen a splined throw out bearing?

me neither

like I said, it doesn't touch that, that would be a problem
I wouldnt want you installing my TOB lol....read up on the contact points that require lube to prevent binding and noise for an STI TOB install. You dont seem to be conceptualizing what I am saying, read up on it if those lube points arent applied during install, there will be increased wear, groves, potential binding and corrosion and noise, and excess heat from the friction, all leading to bearing failure or at best improper actuation. Let alone that the OP had the job done at a dealership where they drive the customers cars into walls, the installation can be screwed up and based on the care they took with his car driving into a wall no less, probably was lol.

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Old 10-23-2020, 02:37 PM   #19
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I bought my 15 WRX in July 2014, first TOB went bad in the first year of ownership. Warranty paid for a second one. It too went bad within a year. Finally they installed the revised part and I put about 50k miles on it so far and itís all good. If they put in the most recent revision of the TOB you should be good.

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Old 10-23-2020, 02:43 PM   #20
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Theres a smooth part behind the splines on the input shaft. The throw out bearing rides there. A light amount a grease should be put on the smooth part of the shaft <--(that's what she said )
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Old 10-23-2020, 03:08 PM   #21
rtv900
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NighthawkSTI View Post
I wouldnt want you installing my TOB lol....read up on the contact points that require lube to prevent binding and noise for an STI TOB install. You dont seem to be conceptualizing what I am saying, read up on it if those lube points arent applied during install, there will be increased wear, groves, potential binding and corrosion and noise, and excess heat from the friction, all leading to bearing failure or at best improper actuation. Let alone that the OP had the job done at a dealership where they drive the customers cars into walls, the installation can be screwed up and based on the care they took with his car driving into a wall no less, probably was lol.
Have you ever actually done this????
Because I have.
Have you held a TOB in your hand?
I'm guessing not, but you seem to be pretty confident.

The TOB does NOT touch the shaft, period.
Sheesh, my last car had 280,000 miles on the factory TOB and a DECADE of use never once needed service.
Are you seriously telling me you believe the bearing TOUCHES a shaft that spins while the bearing is stationary 99.999% of the time and it can last a decade and 280,000 miles with a tech dabbing his finger in grease and smearing it on?????
Really??

I'll let you slide on the grease the fork thing because fine who cares.
It does NOT touch the shaft dude.
You told me to go research when I said this before, so are you really sticking with your story or do you now recognize after researching that it does not touch the shaft?
Or, are you saying it touches a spinning shaft and has no lubrication source other than on day one getting a smear off a finger yet it somehow remains lubricated for the life of a car?

let us know
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Old 10-23-2020, 03:13 PM   #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Zak6182 View Post
Theres a smooth part behind the splines on the input shaft. The throw out bearing rides there. A light amount a grease should be put on the smooth part of the shaft <--(that's what she said )
I understand it runs "around" the shaft yes. Running "on" it is a very different thing.
If that were the case it would need to be inside the trans lubed with trans oil permanently with a portion sticking out through a contact seal.

If it ran on the shaft with a shaft spinning inside a stationary bearing any amount of grease that was smeared on it at install would be vaporized within a half hour to an hour of run time.
That would be like saying you could lubricate a crank bearing with a one time application of grease.
Doesn't work.
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Old 10-23-2020, 03:46 PM   #23
Zak6182
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rtv900 View Post
I understand it runs "around" the shaft yes. Running "on" it is a very different thing.
If that were the case it would need to be inside the trans lubed with trans oil permanently with a portion sticking out through a contact seal.

If it ran on the shaft with a shaft spinning inside a stationary bearing any amount of grease that was smeared on it at install would be vaporized within a half hour to an hour of run time.
That would be like saying you could lubricate a crank bearing with a one time application of grease.
Doesn't work.
That's what I meant when I said light amount. Its just enough to slide it over. You are correct, the TOB sits in the forks around the shaft.

I think we're on the same page. I was just clarifying there smooth part behind the splines. When I first read through the thread it I thought there was some confusion about the shaft. Seems that wasn't the case.
I have done my far share of clutches (mostly on International 4400's) and I have never seen one that wasn't pre-lubed either. Those big clutches have zerk fittings so I did add a little just to make sure they were full.
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Old 10-23-2020, 03:59 PM   #24
Zak6182
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For the OP
A quick look in Mitchell 1 shows they updated the TSB (03-82-1R) 26 AUG 2020 so you should be getting the most revised TOB. If you are that concerned you can ask what part number they used (it may already say it on the work order). According to the TSB they should have use 30502AA121 or 30502AA150 (depending on VIN). In the link below it describes why they might have replaced everything.


Last edited by Zak6182; 10-23-2020 at 04:12 PM.
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Old 10-23-2020, 04:13 PM   #25
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Last edited by Zak6182; 10-23-2020 at 05:26 PM.
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