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Old 05-31-2005, 01:55 AM   #1
MyOtherCarIsASubaru
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Default My other car is a Porsche

I just traded in my 2002 A4 on a 1995 Porsche 911.

Why, you ask, post this on a Subaru Forester forum? Because, the Subaru Forester XT I bought 18 months ago was partially responsible.

4 years ago, I was looking for a fun awd car and drove the Subaru WRX, but chose the Audi A4 because it was more comfortable, felt more solid and I did not care for the lag in the 2.0 liter turbo. But I kept one eye on the Subaru line, knowing the STi was probably coming to the US. When the Forester XT came out, I was very intrigued and needed something station wagon-ish for the usual station wagon-ish things like hauling lumber or household appliances. I drove one and can remember thinking "maybe I should just trade the Audi in." But I kept the Audi, added the XT to my stable, and it quickly became my wife's car (she abandoned her much loved Beetle for it).

Here's where the real problem comes. When we went someplace on the weekend, I usually wanted to drive the XT. 300 pounds lighter and with more grunt, it is A LOT faster than my Audi, though the lower, wider Audi handled better. Yet I could take the Forester on the mountain roads that would tear the bottom out of the Audi, and it was far better for camping, snowshoeing and the like. I also found it slightly more comfortable and better for carrying people in the back seat. So, with the Audi getting close to running out of warranty I started looking for something else. The #1 criteria was that it had to be more fun to drive than the XT.

Not easy.

I drove pretty much everything. Audi A3 and the new A4; BMW 330 and Z4 (the latter on a very memorable 1000 mile trip back from California after my friend bought one); 350z, Infiniti G35 Coupe and Sedan, Mini Cooper S, Rx-8 and 323, another WRX, Acura RSX and TSX, VW GTI and R32, a Porsche 968 and 944 Turbo. I did not drive an M3 (too hard to get a test drive, too much like a regular 3), an Evo (don't trust Mitsi reliability) or a Corvette (reminds me too much of high school). I don't like convertibles, so I missed another class of car that most people think is fun.

Very few of these cars could match the Forester XT's acceleration. Often the steering and gear shift felt vague by comparison. And it is surprising how poor the interior and visibility are in the Nissan and Infiniti products.

In the end only 2 new cars were more fun to drive than the Forester: the STi (obviously) and the Audi S4. The S4 is expensive and a little too much like the A4 I already had. The STi is awesome, but it shook my teeth on the highways I commute over, and a bit too close to the Forester (I'm a car guy, as much as I love them, I don't want to become a "Subaru guy"). Finally I found a 993 C4 on a used lot, and that was that. It probably doesn't have the performance of an STi, but well....if you've ever driven one, you know the raw numbers don't make the car.

This is a long essay to explain a simple point: the only cars I found that were more fun to drive than my $24k Subaru station wagon were a $33k sports car version of the same vehicle, a V8 Audi that costs over twice as much, and a freakin' Porsche! And none of those cars offers the utility and convenience and low operating cost of the Forester. Finally, the "One Good Car" roundedness of the Forester actually enabled me to have second vehicle that is impractical to say the least.

p.s. Yes, I'm serious.

p.p.s. Yes, the 911 is more fun than the Forester...sorry.
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Old 05-31-2005, 06:48 AM   #2
VSB XT
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Very cool perspective you have. I'd take a newer porsche over my XT almost any day but w/out a doubt the XT is a pretty hard car to beat, especially for the price. But your missing one thing and that's you have to drive in a modded forester! That would have been the deal breaker there I'd bet.
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Old 05-31-2005, 07:06 AM   #3
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Very nice review!
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Old 05-31-2005, 07:59 AM   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MyOtherCarIsASubaru
This is a long essay to explain a simple point: the only cars I found that were more fun to drive than my $24k Subaru station wagon were a $33k sports car version of the same vehicle, a V8 Audi that costs over twice as much, and a freakin' Porsche! And none of those cars offers the utility and convenience and low operating cost of the Forester. Finally, the "One Good Car" roundedness of the Forester actually enabled me to have second vehicle that is impractical to say the least.

p.s. Yes, I'm serious.

p.p.s. Yes, the 911 is more fun than the Forester...sorry.
very nice review but i may have a different interpretation of FUN... FUN to me is going out to the local Porsche scca autox event, and beatin the crap of half their field in my FXT...

even with the gt3's, late model turbos showing up... 2 sti's in my group came in 1st and 2nd overall...

TRY THAT FOR FUN !!!
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Old 05-31-2005, 10:19 AM   #5
MyOtherCarIsASubaru
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Quote:
Originally Posted by looney
very nice review but i may have a different interpretation of FUN... FUN to me is going out to the local Porsche scca autox event, and beatin the crap of half their field in my FXT...

even with the gt3's, late model turbos showing up... 2 sti's in my group came in 1st and 2nd overall...

TRY THAT FOR FUN !!!
Are you running your Forester on the stock suspension? I know I could make our Scooby sportier, but I don't want to lose the utility offered by 7" of clearance.

AutoX is 9/10ths driver and 1/10th car. How high in the field would you finish in a 993?
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Old 05-31-2005, 02:25 PM   #6
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BTW, if you ever want to compare the XT to the Porsche, try swapping some STI parts into it. That is, if you don't take the XT snowshoeing much.
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Old 05-31-2005, 06:18 PM   #7
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The XT and the 993 are two vehicles that I wish I had. Have fun with both.
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Old 05-31-2005, 08:33 PM   #8
immortal_suby
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That was a cool story.
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Old 05-31-2005, 09:17 PM   #9
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yeh that was a sweet write up, post some pics of the xt and porsche
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Old 05-31-2005, 11:59 PM   #10
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Question for you Myothercar....

You said you test-drove a Mini S...curious what you thought about it.

Our stable includes our 04 FXTa w/ Prem all stock, an 03 4Runner SEV84x4 and an 05 Mini S w LSD, Sports package, and lots of other goodies. I find the MCS to be a fantastic car. Ours is fast, handles incredibly well, stylish, no rattles yet and has been very reliable. I have yet to reach the limits of this car's performance and think that by the time I do, I'll have scared myself a bunch!

Thanks for your thoughts.
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Old 06-01-2005, 08:58 AM   #11
looney
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MyOtherCarIsASubaru
Are you running your Forester on the stock suspension? I know I could make our Scooby sportier, but I don't want to lose the utility offered by 7" of clearance.

AutoX is 9/10ths driver and 1/10th car. How high in the field would you finish in a 993?
i have the same JDM STI spring setup as Peaty... i also tow a 17' boston whaler montauk almost httin 2000LB loaded... here's a pick you'll find of my tootsie in local scca ER or PCA events...and yes ! its alot about the driver...

EITHER WAY... WE KICK PORSCHE BUTT...

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Old 06-01-2005, 01:21 PM   #12
WRX11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by looney
i have the same JDM STI spring setup as Peaty...
For whatever reason, your JDM springs makes your XT look a little lifted. My USDM swap looks lowered then that but I am sure both handles extremely well compared to the stock setup. I also don't have the trailer hitch. Nice Crystal Gray.
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Old 06-02-2005, 12:20 AM   #13
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Our Concours/DE Car Is A Porsche (1981 Euro Spec 924 Turbo)

I Agree With Your Review In The Sense Of A Fun And Yet Practical Vehicle.

I Strongly Pushed For The Purchase Of Our 04 FXT For My Wife Mainly Because I Know That In Another Year Or Two It Will Become My Daily Driver And I Wanted To Have Something "Fun" That I Could Modify And Still Carry Our Son In The Car Seat, The Stroller W/Baby Gear, And The Dog.

I Work On 993 Porsches All Of The Time And Can Attest To Just How Fun They Are. A Good Set Of Tires, A Sporty Alignment And A Pair Of Mufflers And Your Pretty Much Set.

Pics Of Our Vintage Porsche -








Have Fun !

Rich


(Exotic Car Technician)
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Old 06-02-2005, 01:15 AM   #14
Peaty
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Looney,

Cool you have to post pics of your new ride or e-mail me some. At least you got it for all the right reasons Congrats

Quote:
i have the same JDM STI spring setup as Peaty...
WooHoo not for long - these go in this weekend

http://tinyurl.com/bcphn
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Old 06-02-2005, 07:43 AM   #15
looney
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Peaty
Looney,

Cool you have to post pics of your new ride or e-mail me some. At least you got it for all the right reasons Congrats

WooHoo not for long - these go in this weekend

http://tinyurl.com/bcphn
THANKS PEATY.... sorry for the highjack but...what aftermarket struts you recommend for JDM STI springs

HELP !
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Old 06-02-2005, 12:07 PM   #16
Peaty
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That is a very good question. It's been something I've been pondering myself for some time. I can't say I was unhappy with the ride and results of the combination of the OEM struts and SG STi Springs, but I wonder if the life of the strut would be reduced. So far I have seen no decline in the struts with this setup (have you?) When I got the chance to get a matched Forester STi take off set I jumped on it as quickly as I could. Going to the inverted style is just what I wanted. I communicated with a Forester STi owner and as far as I can tell the drop will be similar to the SG STi springs ~1 - 1.5". Just what I want.

But to your question, I wanted to maintain some of the ride height and not slam it. I only wanted to drop an inch to a max of 2". In our conversations I think we are of the same mind on this point. So what's out there for the Forester? Not much I'm afraid. At least I haven't seen anything to use the SG STi springs other than the OEM setup.

Best case the OEM struts go on their merry way w/ no issues. I mean the ride is pretty good IMHO, worst case the life is reduced and a new OEM set are needed down the road (so to speak) If you look closely at the Forester strut top it seems, unlike some other Subaru struts I've seen, you can unscrew the top and replace the "cartridge" That may be worth investigating. I may have an extra set sitting around soon. Maybe I can contact someone that can source a better setup to just drop in? Just a thought.
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Old 06-02-2005, 12:21 PM   #17
cholos2
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Comparing an FXT and Porsche...hmmm! With such a comparison, it makes me thingk I made a the right decision in choosing my FXT. I came from the world of rice and could only dream of riding in Porsches and stuff.
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Old 06-02-2005, 03:39 PM   #18
re-zero
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MISOFAST. That is a good plate

Our license plate = 4STURBO. "Fores"-turbo but also our wish for a real 4S someday...
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Old 06-02-2005, 04:35 PM   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Peaty
But to your question, I wanted to maintain some of the ride height and not slam it. I only wanted to drop an inch to a max of 2". In our conversations I think we are of the same mind on this point. So what's out there for the Forester? Not much I'm afraid. At least I haven't seen anything to use the SG STi springs other than the OEM setup.

Best case the OEM struts go on their merry way w/ no issues. I mean the ride is pretty good IMHO, worst case the life is reduced and a new OEM set are needed down the road (so to speak) If you look closely at the Forester strut top it seems, unlike some other Subaru struts I've seen, you can unscrew the top and replace the "cartridge" That may be worth investigating. I may have an extra set sitting around soon. Maybe I can contact someone that can source a better setup to just drop in? Just a thought.
Hmmm... I've kind of gone round this a few times myself. I don't want to lose ride height, I don't want to reduce wheel independence (rules out bigger bars) but more spring and damping would certainly be nice.

I'm kind of leaning towards Bilstein inserts loaded into the stock tubes and custom springs, but getting actual data (outside diameter, nominal length, stroke length, high and low speed bump and rebound rates) on the inserts is like pulling teeth, everyone just says "no application listed."

These guys have a wide variety of springs, quite reasonable prices:
http://www.bluecoilspring.com/

Another option is to talk to "jvl" at specialstage.com, he builds custom coilovers for the rally guys. I think he quoted me around $1000-$1200 for a rally-ready set of rebuilt gravel-valved bilstein 80's WRC GroupA competition-spec dampers with custom tubes and springs at one time. Prices have probably changed since then, it was quite a while ago. If you really talked nice to him he might let them out of his hands with tarmac valving too, though he'll call you a road racing weenie.

Last edited by Chromer; 06-02-2005 at 04:50 PM.
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Old 06-03-2005, 01:53 PM   #20
MyOtherCarIsASubaru
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AndroXT
Question for you Myothercar....

You said you test-drove a Mini S...curious what you thought about it.

Our stable includes our 04 FXTa w/ Prem all stock, an 03 4Runner SEV84x4 and an 05 Mini S w LSD, Sports package, and lots of other goodies. I find the MCS to be a fantastic car. Ours is fast, handles incredibly well, stylish, no rattles yet and has been very reliable. I have yet to reach the limits of this car's performance and think that by the time I do, I'll have scared myself a bunch!

Thanks for your thoughts.
I thought the Mini was cute and handled nicely, but the lack of low down torque was scary. There are a lot of hills in Seattle...I got into one during my test drive where I couldn't get away from the stop sign. Fortunately there was nobody behind me...but I literally had to roll back and take a run at it. Maybe if it had the hill holder from the Subaru.
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