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Old 03-05-2009, 09:08 AM   #26
D-NaSty
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what are the benefits of zeroing out the delays??
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Old 03-05-2009, 12:10 PM   #27
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Everything.........

Especially on a 04+ ECU. Because the stock delays can keep you in CL way way to long.
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Old 03-05-2009, 12:33 PM   #28
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So....

If I want to do this correctley, I need to zero out all of the delays (a,b,c,d).

I want to know this for sure before I go and try this and kaboom... I need a new engine.
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Old 03-05-2009, 12:38 PM   #29
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Basically.....make sure you Minimum Primary Open Loop Enrichment is richer than your OL fueling map down low (under 1.2g/rev) or at idle, and that's about it.
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Old 03-05-2009, 12:44 PM   #30
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I'm using accesstuner so some things are a bit different but, I will definatly check it out.
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Old 03-05-2009, 12:58 PM   #31
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whats wrong with being in closed loop? It corrects for any errors with maf scaling and injector scaling.

On a side note, did you guys push the stoich a/f farther out when using zero delays.?
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Old 03-05-2009, 02:29 PM   #32
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Quote:
Originally Posted by D-NaSty View Post
whats wrong with being in closed loop? It corrects for any errors with maf scaling and injector scaling.

On a side note, did you guys push the stoich a/f farther out when using zero delays.?
Nothing is wrong with closed loop, it is the transitional delay that causes problems. I don't typically push 14.7 out further, I just smooth the mid load/rpm areas into the WOT areas, this typically involved moving fuel around and adding timing.
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Old 03-05-2009, 06:28 PM   #33
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I completely disagree with 0ing the delay. Like Mike stated, you have to modify all tables for that particular setup.

I have one reason for doing this:

You have the D range of AFL. This is carried over into open loop. If you zero the delay, it takes longer for the ECU to learn the D range as you will hardly ever stay in that MAF G/S range in closed loop.

What I do is this. I set my closed loop delay pretty low (32 bit ECU, set to 100) and do a vishnu reset (50-65 G/S in closed loop) to trigger a fast fuel learn. This way you can tell if the car will end up richening up or leaning out. Also, if you change gas (say you get a tank with more ethanol) having the delay there will make your car learn to hit target AFRs sooner. This is just safer IMHO. However, you want to modify the other tables to make the delay go to 0 (look at the help on each table and the tables that set the delay to 0 are the ones you want to modify). This gives the best of both worlds IMHO. My car feels like the delay is 0'd but it learns fueling trends in the D range pretty quick.
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Old 03-05-2009, 06:46 PM   #34
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so what tables did you set to zero
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Old 03-05-2009, 09:30 PM   #35
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would you tell me the result for doing this?
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Old 03-06-2009, 02:09 AM   #36
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gabedude View Post
I completely disagree with 0ing the delay. Like Mike stated, you have to modify all tables for that particular setup.

I have one reason for doing this:

You have the D range of AFL. This is carried over into open loop. If you zero the delay, it takes longer for the ECU to learn the D range as you will hardly ever stay in that MAF G/S range in closed loop.

What I do is this. I set my closed loop delay pretty low (32 bit ECU, set to 100) and do a vishnu reset (50-65 G/S in closed loop) to trigger a fast fuel learn. This way you can tell if the car will end up richening up or leaning out. Also, if you change gas (say you get a tank with more ethanol) having the delay there will make your car learn to hit target AFRs sooner. This is just safer IMHO. However, you want to modify the other tables to make the delay go to 0 (look at the help on each table and the tables that set the delay to 0 are the ones you want to modify). This gives the best of both worlds IMHO. My car feels like the delay is 0'd but it learns fueling trends in the D range pretty quick.
I agree with you on the importance of AF D but I take a different approach. I reduce AF D to begin at 40 g/s and this is easily attainable with left-foot-braking even with OLCL delays at zero. 50 g/s is just too high.

The stock fuel map is really funny in the cells adjacent to 14.7 (CL). I always smooth those out, particularly from 2000-4000.
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Old 03-06-2009, 03:42 AM   #37
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My car had a D range of 40 g/s with the stock tune. Driving up either of the nearest mountain passes gives me plenty of time in the 40-65 range (anything higher = OL).

I zeroed my delays and am happy with the results. Prior to zeroing them, power came on in stages when I floored it - there would be a couple of slight lurches where power would pick up. Now it's smoother. I'm guessing that lurch was the OL/CL transition, which is now happening before the gas pedal hits the floor. (I tend to roll on the throttle, not stomp it.) Funny thing is I actually expected it to get less smooth, but I ain't complaining.
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Old 03-06-2009, 03:48 PM   #38
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Either way, if you use the O/L fuel map and 0 the delay or use the tables to control the x-over, the important thing to remember is to pay attention to the AFL D (LTFT) range as it affects open loop fueling. Also the other ranges do have a "ramp down" effect that impacts o/l fueling from what I have observed.
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Old 06-09-2018, 04:02 PM   #39
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Old 07-13-2018, 03:28 PM   #40
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sorry this is so old, but I see the benefit of having no delay.... what is the benefit of having the delay in the first place?

I am also curious where do you ideally want the "D" range A/F learning to start? Do you pretty much want "D" range to start where you'd go in open loop (so there's no A/F correction applied to it?). What I believe I am seeing is that my C range extends into open loop. C is basically closed loop cruise and has some A/F corrections applied to it. Then I go into open loop and I have this 8% correction as I'm going from the high end of C into D so I'm running dumb rich until I hit D, then it is corrected. I'm thinking about llowering the top end of C range so we hit D sooner.

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Old 07-13-2018, 06:50 PM   #41
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I suspect that the delay is just there to improve gas mileage by not going rich for short throttle blips.

My car came with the C/D boundary at 40 g/s, and it seemed to work fine, so I left it there. If your MAF scaling is dialed in, then moving the boundary is not going to make any meaningful difference. And if your MAF scaling isn't dialed in, then work on that.
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