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Old 09-21-2018, 12:59 PM   #1
vlad11591
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Default Lightning Lap 2018- Results are in

It seems like whenever there's a debate between what cars handle better, it's generally divided between die hard Focus, STI, Golf R/GTI, and even some CTR fanboys.

These are some stats from the most recent 2018 Lightning Lap.
First link is for 2018, second link is YTD overall.

https://www.caranddriver.com/feature...tning-lap-2018

https://www.caranddriver.com/feature...istorical-data

Interesting results. FWD cars keep up/if not surpass the AWD cars. Mustang GT kept up with cars in the 80k+ range, the CTR, STI, were pretty comparable. So was the Golf R.

Turbo 1le surprised me as well. I had no faith in that 2.0 turbo, but it showed up pretty well, considering that's 30k for a base trim.
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Last edited by vlad11591; 09-21-2018 at 03:29 PM.
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Old 09-21-2018, 03:12 PM   #2
Gallo2011
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Links no worky for me.
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Old 09-21-2018, 03:30 PM   #3
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fixed links
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Old 09-21-2018, 03:46 PM   #4
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fixed links
Thanks, originals didn't work for me either.....
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Old 09-21-2018, 05:21 PM   #5
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CTR is a beast! Not a bad showing by the STI RA too. RS3 a bit disappointing. 2018 WRX performance pack quicker than the Golf R and right there with the DSG S3...Not bad, not bad at all. Just a second behind the STI. GM Alpha platform cars dominating as usual.
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Old 09-21-2018, 05:53 PM   #6
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Crazy that the boat of the vehicle m5 beat out a cayman GTS by a full second.

CTR is pretty impressive. Still looks like a matchbox toy car though.

GT coupe is also pretty impressive, but I just cant see myself in a mustang. The Camaro 1le is solid. Hopefully that body/interior gets a makeover for 2019



Also crazy to see that every year, the industry seems to push the boundaries of power/suspension.
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Old 09-21-2018, 06:47 PM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by vlad11591 View Post

CTR is pretty impressive. Still looks like a matchbox toy car though.
I paid a guy $20 to let me test drive his CTR because I was that on the fence about getting that or an STI. The CTR is hands-down the better and sportier car to drive, IMO.

Shifting my STI after shifting the CTR is like driving one of those old-school 18-speed truck transmissions after you spent an hour in a Lexus. BUT, as you said, the styling is just too wack. And stock 20" wheels? No thanks.
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Old 09-21-2018, 07:49 PM   #8
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The CTR is an awesome car, hold the absolutely stupid pricing part.

I've always been curious how much better the STI would rank if Subaru used tires that were somewhat more comparable to the SC6 on the CTR and MPS4S & PSC2 on the RS.
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Old 09-22-2018, 11:17 PM   #9
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Originally Posted by Straight6 View Post
CTR is a beast! Not a bad showing by the STI RA too. RS3 a bit disappointing. 2018 WRX performance pack quicker than the Golf R and right there with the DSG S3...Not bad, not bad at all. Just a second behind the STI. GM Alpha platform cars dominating as usual.
the times are a mess. all tested over different years and drivers and the golf r they tested was about the slowest year with garbage tires. the rs3 was on junk tires too, look at how much quicker the ttrs was and how many more g's it pulled. they are the same basic chassis but the ttrs had the good optional tires on it.
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Old 09-23-2018, 09:51 AM   #10
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the times are a mess. all tested over different years and drivers and the golf r they tested was about the slowest year with garbage tires. the rs3 was on junk tires too, look at how much quicker the ttrs was and how many more g's it pulled. they are the same basic chassis but the ttrs had the good optional tires on it.
LL is a great feature. Cars come the way they come, DSG should also be an advantage vs 6 speed manual. That R was a DSG. You can make excuses for every single car there. IF this and IF that....WRX lap was done on a damp course with some spots still covered with water...Let the lap times speak for themselves, enjoy the feature and stop with the excuses. CTR owned them all .
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Old 09-23-2018, 02:09 PM   #11
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LL is a great feature. Cars come the way they come, DSG should also be an advantage vs 6 speed manual. That R was a DSG. You can make excuses for every single car there. IF this and IF that....WRX lap was done on a damp course with some spots still covered with water...Let the lap times speak for themselves, enjoy the feature and stop with the excuses. CTR owned them all .
it would be great if they had one pro drive them all instead of random journalists.
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Old 09-23-2018, 02:46 PM   #12
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it would be great if they had one pro drive them all instead of random journalists.
Completely disagree. These results are a lot more realistic than a pro running the same course that he/she knows like the back of his/her hand. Nobody here would even come close. They record everything and take the fastest lap taken.

If you want a pro opinion's and times look at MT The Street of Willow Spring times. Here is their take on the TT RS driven by a pro...Yikes! It is not pretty.

https://www.motortrend.com/news/audi...car-contender/

EDIT and FYI: Last WRX Randy tested there did the 1.6 mile course in 88.34 seconds. The last Golf R Randy tested did it in 87.90. So there you have it. At the hands of a pro. This was a 2015 WRX premium, not the performance pack and the R was 2018 6 speed. A CTR did this in a blistering 85.45!

Last edited by Straight6; 09-23-2018 at 03:03 PM.
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Old 09-23-2018, 04:27 PM   #13
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I would have bought a CTR if the stying wasn't so over the top. I don't care how fast a car is if it looks like if came from the set of Tokyo Drift. If I'm going to spend $30-$40k on a vehicle I better love the exterior every time I look at it.
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Old 09-23-2018, 05:29 PM   #14
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Originally Posted by Straight6 View Post
Completely disagree. These results are a lot more realistic than a pro running the same course that he/she knows like the back of his/her hand. Nobody here would even come close. They record everything and take the fastest lap taken.

If you want a pro opinion's and times look at MT The Street of Willow Spring times. Here is their take on the TT RS driven by a pro...Yikes! It is not pretty.

https://www.motortrend.com/news/audi...car-contender/

EDIT and FYI: Last WRX Randy tested there did the 1.6 mile course in 88.34 seconds. The last Golf R Randy tested did it in 87.90. So there you have it. At the hands of a pro. This was a 2015 WRX premium, not the performance pack and the R was 2018 6 speed. A CTR did this in a blistering 85.45!
they need to test the 7 speed dsg. its a LOT faster than the manual.
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Old 09-24-2018, 07:10 PM   #15
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I would have bought a CTR if the stying wasn't so over the top. I don't care how fast a car is if it looks like if came from the set of Tokyo Drift. If I'm going to spend $30-$40k on a vehicle I better love the exterior every time I look at it.
The styling has grown on me. The dealer markup notsomuch.
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Old 09-24-2018, 10:10 PM   #16
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the times are a mess. all tested over different years and drivers and the golf r they tested was about the slowest year with garbage tires. the rs3 was on junk tires too, look at how much quicker the ttrs was and how many more g's it pulled. they are the same basic chassis but the ttrs had the good optional tires on it.
Indeed. The WRX is 5 seconds behind the STI. The Cherry Pick time of 3:11 was the 2018 WRX with the sport package. Unless the 2018 STI was tested, then no comparison. This, of course, is one of many such examples.
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Old 09-25-2018, 03:04 PM   #17
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Obviously the results should be taken with a grain of salt. These aren't tested in the same scenarios for each car. I just thought it was interesting to see the increase in overall performance of cars year to year.

FYI the 18 WRX sport package just has some different pads than the other trims. (The STI wheels + short shifter/knob) The RA has basically a complete overhaul on suspension upgrades. You're comparing apples to oranges.

You could also check to see what cars received "upgrades" and what others were driven stock. (albeit different tires)

The TT is 20k difference, and had a completely different suspension build. You could see they used a "suspension package" in the notes on the car. The Rs3 has a heavier chassis, and although worse tires, still wasn't that impressive.

Last edited by vlad11591; 09-25-2018 at 04:38 PM.
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Old 09-25-2018, 08:05 PM   #18
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Indeed. The WRX is 5 seconds behind the STI. The Cherry Pick time of 3:11 was the 2018 WRX with the sport package. Unless the 2018 STI was tested, then no comparison. This, of course, is one of many such examples.
2015 was slower because it cooked its brakes. Nobody cherry picked anything. In fact, the 2018 WRX time was done on a damp track with still some portions covered with water, yet that WRX was only 1 second behind the STI, just with upgraded pads. LL is a fantastic feature and provides a great perspective how these cars behave at the VIR but people will always look for excuses when their car doesn't do all that well.
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Old 09-25-2018, 09:19 PM   #19
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2015 was slower because it cooked its brakes. Nobody cherry picked anything. In fact, the 2018 WRX time was done on a damp track with still some portions covered with water, yet that WRX was only 1 second behind the STI, just with upgraded pads. LL is a fantastic feature and provides a great perspective how these cars behave at the VIR but people will always look for excuses when their car doesn't do all that well.
Totally.
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Old 09-25-2018, 10:45 PM   #20
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Phenomenal showing by the ZR-1. Rubbing shoulders with some very impressive company...
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Old 09-26-2018, 05:13 PM   #21
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Totally.
Like so totally dude!!!

1: Brake pad failure on the 2015 WRX hot lap:

"It’s common for LL1 cars to suffer brake fade at VIR, but the WRX surprised us with an eerie echo of a 370Z NISMO brake failure, circa 2010. With just over 2500 miles on the odometer, the Subaru consumed the last of its front pads, grinding the backing plates against the discs. The metal-on-metal contact became apparent in the midst of a hot lap as the car careened through Hog Pen"

https://www.caranddriver.com/feature...p-2014-feature

2: Water on the track during the 2018 WRX lap:

"The WRX demonstrates such confidence-*inspiring turn-in and transitional responses that it entered Spiral 5.6 mph faster than the Porsche 718 Cayman S and 4.2 mph faster than the BMW M240i. And with a best lap time of 3:11.5, the WRX was more than three seconds ahead of its nearest LL1-class competitor, the Honda Civic Si. It was also virtually unaffected by the water that so profoundly flummoxed the BRZ."

https://www.caranddriver.com/feature...p-2017-feature

"Inverted front struts (on Limited and Premium models) and brake-based torque vectoring on the front axle help turn the WRX into a highly proficient road-course car. And proper brake pads don’t hurt, either. In fact, since it now trails the 2015 WRX STI by only one second around VIR, it might just be the WRX to have."

https://www.caranddriver.com/feature...p-2017-feature




As far as the excuses ? We already got the "but tires" and "but different drivers" and "but it so ugly" out of the way...Few more and we should be done here.

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Old 09-27-2018, 06:34 PM   #22
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^^People always look for excuses when their car doesn't perform as well.

To show you how I'm not doing that I'm going to write a post specifically pointing out the excuses I'm making for why the car didn't perform as well.

This is in no way ironic or hypocritical.

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