Welcome to the North American Subaru Impreza Owners Club Friday July 20, 2018
Home Forums WikiNASIOC Products Store Modifications Upgrade Garage
NASIOC
Go Back   NASIOC > NASIOC Technical > Normally Aspirated with bolt-on Forced Induction Powertrain

Welcome to NASIOC - The world's largest online community for Subaru enthusiasts!
Welcome to the NASIOC.com Subaru forum.

You are currently viewing our forum as a guest, which gives you limited access to view most discussions and access our other features. By joining our community, free of charge, you will have access to post topics, communicate privately with other members (PM), respond to polls, upload content and access many other special features. Registration is free, fast and simple, so please join our community today!

If you have any problems with the registration process or your account login, please contact us.
* Registered users of the site do not see these ads. 
Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 09-06-2014, 09:32 AM   #201
squarebush
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 173656
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Nashua NH
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by no694terry View Post
Finally in the club. But i think i need to pull the motor out again and change valve seals. It gets real smoky after high vacuum.

How is that injector set up working? Are you still on the factory ecu like before? I got the no bigger injectors from several different sources. It has a lot to do with not being able to mess with duty cycles and Pulse widths so off boost and idle are going to be weird. That being said however, the 550's aren't a huge jump, I believe we have 450's maybe 420's depending on the year. I was looking up the SVX injectors because I have some laying around but they are the same or lower. That engine is just magic...
* Registered users of the site do not see these ads.
squarebush is offline   Reply With Quote
Sponsored Links
* Registered users of the site do not see these ads.
Old 09-06-2014, 09:35 AM   #202
squarebush
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 173656
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Nashua NH
Default

I have some stuff to sort out with mine before it goes back out on the road. However I am curious what people are running for exhaust (after the downpipe) set ups. My 3" set up has been pretty loud, sounds fantastic but i need something much much subtler these days. I replaced the generic tip with my Prodrive round tip and that helped, it is a 2.5". I might just downsize it all. I am not getting any scavenging effects from a 3" after the 2.5" subachad downpipe, right?
squarebush is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-06-2014, 10:14 AM   #203
no694terry
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 220816
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Pittsburgh PA
Vehicle:
2018 Exotruck
EJ22e 415whp/398wtq

Default

I run an emanage ultimate on a stock 97 legacy 2.2 5mt ecu (for egr delete). I also have a wrx maf. I made no airflow adjustments and did all the fuel correction in the i/j map. I first thought i should use the airflow map to try and match the wrx maf voltage to my stock voltage at idle but it wasnt working right so now i just adjust fuel. Im about -20 at idle and +75 at wot. My output duty cycles on the 550s are around 80% at 10psi. Im voing to be hooking up autotune to keep my afrs in check while i continue to iron out fuel trims, having zero fuel trims are pretty important to off boost driving. I noticed cruising down the highway i was geetting a weird jump between open loop and closed loop so i logged that fuel trim and saw my computer was pulling 8% so i went into the emu and pulled 8% in those cells and now highway is much better, i just have a lot more cells to finish correcting.

As for exhaust, i had a 3" for a week or so NA while i was fitting everything, it was rediculously loud. Once i bolted the trubo on, it got much quieter, and a lot funner to drive.
no694terry is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-07-2014, 11:45 AM   #204
squarebush
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 173656
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Nashua NH
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by no694terry View Post
I run an emanage ultimate on a stock 97 legacy 2.2 5mt ecu (for egr delete). I also have a wrx maf. I made no airflow adjustments and did all the fuel correction in the i/j map. I first thought i should use the airflow map to try and match the wrx maf voltage to my stock voltage at idle but it wasnt working right so now i just adjust fuel. Im about -20 at idle and +75 at wot. My output duty cycles on the 550s are around 80% at 10psi. Im voing to be hooking up autotune to keep my afrs in check while i continue to iron out fuel trims, having zero fuel trims are pretty important to off boost driving. I noticed cruising down the highway i was geetting a weird jump between open loop and closed loop so i logged that fuel trim and saw my computer was pulling 8% so i went into the emu and pulled 8% in those cells and now highway is much better, i just have a lot more cells to finish correcting.
Yeah I was going to say, you had to be running something for fuel management. I went through some of the other posts you had and didn't see anything mentioned so I wanted to clarify.

Fuel correction seems like it would be adequate. Our 22e Maf ecus are fairly versatile as we have seen and don't seem to mind messing around with the engine. Modern ecus untuned I think are a LOT more sensitive to variation. Using the wrx ecu as an example where exhaust changes can through off the AFRs enough to cause knock.

I might jump on the eManage boat at some point. I don't mind where my car is at and I really wanted to see how far I could push the engine without wiring anything in. I mean I am fairly comfortable with the electronic aspects of the engine.

I have some stuff laying around and might look into retrofitting a wrx ecu into the system just to try it. I guess some rs25 guys are having some good luck with that. It is also the only flash-able standalone with OBD2 readiness when you think about it. The only trick is coming up with a map for the 22e.

The other thing you have to do to go to the wrx ecu is change the ignition, either add coil on plug or build the circuit to change the output from the ecu to lost spark.... or bolt on wrx heads... kind of stops being a 22e at that point because then you have a wrx manifold and heads, and then the exhaust and turbo set up from a wrx fits and well basically its a swap all over again. Well a swap would probably be the shortest route. I have one of those laying around too. I was thinking about doing the entire dash swap and a built 255/257 but at the end of the day I still need a legacy length midpipe fabed and a dyno tune so at least $600 and probably closer to $800 on top of the parts.
squarebush is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-07-2014, 12:31 PM   #205
no694terry
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 220816
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Pittsburgh PA
Vehicle:
2018 Exotruck
EJ22e 415whp/398wtq

Default

I dint know if a jdm rcu can be usdm obd compliant but thay have phase one turbo ecus that use regular coil packs and plug into the phase one b84 connector, you would still need to play with it a bit though since jdm runs better fuel and are tuned more aggressively.
no694terry is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-09-2014, 09:06 AM   #206
squarebush
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 173656
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Nashua NH
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by no694terry View Post
I dint know if a jdm rcu can be usdm obd compliant but thay have phase one turbo ecus that use regular coil packs and plug into the phase one b84 connector, you would still need to play with it a bit though since jdm runs better fuel and are tuned more aggressively.
No you won't be able to use a JDM ecu for readiness/obd2 reasons. It is also more of a concern on anything after 97 for subaru as far as inspection requirements. You would however want the newer style ecu (bugeye+) because it gives you full flash-ability, a thing we do not have the ability to do.
It is basically something that gives you the flexibility in maps that still is trusted by inspection machines because it is oem.
squarebush is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-09-2014, 12:39 PM   #207
no694terry
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 220816
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Pittsburgh PA
Vehicle:
2018 Exotruck
EJ22e 415whp/398wtq

Default

running 18psi on my ej22e

no694terry is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-10-2014, 08:43 AM   #208
squarebush
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 173656
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Nashua NH
Default

18psi can be done, you just need the fuel to back it up! We know you have that so it helps. Problem I see if the single exhaust trying to get all that stuff out of the cylinder! I wonder if you can get bigger exhaust valves for the thing, although even a larger lift might help if you can find a hot cam. I think I heard something about a cam from Japan land that fit and was more aggressive, I don't recall any of the details at this point.

Were you previously aware of your boost levels before you pulled this data? Also mbc or ebc? Actually which line is boost?
squarebush is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-10-2014, 09:16 AM   #209
no694terry
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 220816
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Pittsburgh PA
Vehicle:
2018 Exotruck
EJ22e 415whp/398wtq

Default

The emanage software only plays well with XP. I have that window open in Windows 7 so it cuts the color chart off the right. It wont let me view the hole maps either.

My heads are 96 EJ25D heads, biggest valves subaru ever made. And i have 97 ej25d cams in them. Same cam as the ej20K. I just added the manual boost controller. I was running the tial waste gate pressure at 11psi until this log. This is first log with new controller. I was aiming for 15 psi but got 25, i turned it down and now at 18ish. This morning it hit 18.8 and tapers to the high 17's. Me and the car have agreed the leave it where its at.

I have had a weird blip around 4960 rpm. Seems every pull I loose signal somewhere and the ecu cuts fuel for a millisecond. Its only a fuel cut, no weird rpm, timing or airflow change. Just a split second fuel cut. You can see it in the higher dark blue line above.

Green - throttle
lower dark blue - boost (this map scaled to boost)
pink - afr

I can upload a log. Anyone can download the emanage software for free to view it. You would need my map to view all the data though.

Emanage Ultimate Software
My MAP, probably outdated
Log 14

Last edited by no694terry; 09-10-2014 at 11:57 AM.
no694terry is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-11-2014, 09:40 AM   #210
squarebush
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 173656
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Nashua NH
Default

Oh sick you did head work lol. Yeah you are in the clear, no wonder you are moving so much air. Oh yeah look at that, DOHC in the picture, duh! Its funny what you don't see when you are not looking for it.

You should try to get it on a dyno, I am super curious what you are making. I wouldn't be surprised by stage 2 wrx numbers, you might even squeak out a few more hps. The 22e always had good torque numbers for me but fell down at the top which seemed like a airflow and not necessarily just fueling. Since you addressed that you are easily going to be able to reach the mid 250's.

Thanks for the color code, makes way way more sense. Taper looks good, you are going to get that with a MBC no matter what, the beginning is more of a spike to get the ball or needle moving and break the initial seal and then the spring is active at what ever you set it for for the rest of the travel. You can't really look at the start when you tune just after it starts to drop.

An EBC is going to hold more level because it is operating the bleed off as a solenoid so it isn't requiring mechanical force, obviously. That is why the oem stuff works pretty well. The issue the stg2 guys run into is the oem bov starts to bleed air as it gets older so the trick is to put a dent in the top to basically up the spring rate. Since the bov is vacuum operated spring values should be on the lower-side and people don't necessarily think about that. Its what ever the spring rate is plus what ever the boost is closing it and then as soon as it lets off the vacuum sucks the spring rate to next to nothing and the pressure behind it is gone. /ramble

what are you running for a BOV? looks like it isn't recirc... actually what that blue thing under the inlet in front of the compressor? See, now I am actually studying the picture after I missed the whole head thing last time
squarebush is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-11-2014, 10:42 AM   #211
JoshP
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 94350
Join Date: Aug 2005
Chapter/Region: NESIC
Location: S. Maine
Default

I have a boosted EJ22E block, I'm waiting to finish tune and get on the dyno before posting here. Makes a really nice turbo motor when paired with 2.5 heads I believe. It's a lot better off boost drive-ability than a stock EJ205.

Only pic I have at the moment, it's a bit more buttoned up now with the rad clips, IC brackets etc

JoshP is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-11-2014, 11:08 AM   #212
no694terry
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 220816
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Pittsburgh PA
Vehicle:
2018 Exotruck
EJ22e 415whp/398wtq

Default

Ya mine drives like a 2.2 off boost. I was skeptical with the low compression but seems fine. I have a RFL bov. I get a little pop in the exhaust between shifts now and then but it doesnt really open unless theres a few psi in there. So so far vta bov aint so bad, i also have ability to tune it out with emanage.

I've been hitting rev limit way to easy. This ecu is set at 6500, This morning i mashed it, broke all four tires loose and started bouncing off the limiter. after reading this post, i decided to up my rev limit. I'm going to 7500. I know i'm still making plenty of power at 6500 to justify the increase.

Edit, the rev limit increase didnt work. I think my car is ignition cut that emanage cant override but heres another log
log 16

Last edited by no694terry; 09-11-2014 at 12:37 PM.
no694terry is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-17-2014, 11:10 AM   #213
no694terry
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 220816
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Pittsburgh PA
Vehicle:
2018 Exotruck
EJ22e 415whp/398wtq

Default

I hit my first knock count today. It was at 16 psi at 11.6 AFR. It was a doozy. I felt it and it put a cloud of smoke out of the exhaust. Probably would have destroyed an ej255 piston. I never had knock there before but i pulled a couple degrees of timing in that area just to be safe. My emanagg picked up the knock since i just happened to be data logging. I never thought it worked. I changed the settings a little to make it more sensitive.
no694terry is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-17-2014, 02:50 PM   #214
JoshP
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 94350
Join Date: Aug 2005
Chapter/Region: NESIC
Location: S. Maine
Default

How much timing were you running when you got the knock?
JoshP is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-17-2014, 03:26 PM   #215
no694terry
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 220816
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Pittsburgh PA
Vehicle:
2018 Exotruck
EJ22e 415whp/398wtq

Default

Id have to check log again but i want to say 20.6 degrees total, I was pulling about .75 degrees per psi so the ECU would have been at 32 degrees. The ECU actually picked up the knock and cut timing a few milliseconds before the emanage graphed it. The timing control is so critical on these boosted engines. If i had a emaneg blue or SAFC this motor would be junk by now.

I just went back and redid my hole timing table. When i was running 10psi i did pull any boost and i sware it had more power than my conservative timed 19psi

Last edited by no694terry; 09-17-2014 at 07:50 PM.
no694terry is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-18-2014, 08:00 AM   #216
squarebush
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 173656
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Nashua NH
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by no694terry View Post
Id have to check log again but i want to say 20.6 degrees total, I was pulling about .75 degrees per psi so the ECU would have been at 32 degrees. The ECU actually picked up the knock and cut timing a few milliseconds before the emanage graphed it. The timing control is so critical on these boosted engines. If i had a emaneg blue or SAFC this motor would be junk by now.

I just went back and redid my hole timing table. When i was running 10psi i did pull any boost and i sware it had more power than my conservative timed 19psi
I've still been around 5-6 psi without any management but that is really valuable information. Good to see what is going on with the lower compression setup. Have you checked your plugs? I wonder if there is something else going on. Is that still the stock coilpack or the MSD neon upgrade?
squarebush is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-18-2014, 08:18 AM   #217
no694terry
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 220816
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Pittsburgh PA
Vehicle:
2018 Exotruck
EJ22e 415whp/398wtq

Default

5-6 psi stock sounds about the limit if your not already maxing out the injectors. I'm pulling over 90% duty cycle with 550cc STi injectors. Still have the stock coil pack, my plugs are BRK6's and i havent pulled them because of it being a pain with the DOHC. I did however have my header off the other day and noticed a couple things: My vale seals are shot and all but one of my exhaust valves are white. The trany side cylinder one exhaust valve is black like soot covered black. At first i didnt think it was opening from a collapse lifter or something but it opens just fine with the other one. Its just black??? I'm still kicking myself for not doing a valve job on the heads when i had the chance

Log from this morning. Notice my weird blip. Mostly happens in lower gears. I though it was crank sensor plug but i changed it last night and blips still there. The longer pull is 3rd gear, this was up a hill and from the shift into third to redline was about 2.5 seconds to give an idea how quick it pulls. 1st gear i dont even use anymore, it hits the rev limit instantly.

Last edited by no694terry; 09-18-2014 at 08:39 AM.
no694terry is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-17-2014, 09:55 AM   #218
no694terry
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 220816
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Pittsburgh PA
Vehicle:
2018 Exotruck
EJ22e 415whp/398wtq

Default

switched to blowthrough MAF, 21psi and still holding although its rings are about worn to the nub
no694terry is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
boosting on an ej22 shortblock not a ej22t sime Normally Aspirated with bolt-on Forced Induction Powertrain 10 09-11-2014 06:05 PM
Whose boosting an EJ22 NA? Turbo GC4 Normally Aspirated with bolt-on Forced Induction Powertrain 5 09-11-2014 04:07 PM
New EBCS Pro From PERRIN - Boost Control Solenoid PERRIN Vendor Announcements 19 09-16-2010 07:35 PM
FS : Defi Racer Boost and EGT gauges Faster_Gun Interior/Dressup/Audio & Security 7 06-09-2010 09:37 PM
Less boost. higher atmospheric temp? COBB AP2 joosky Factory 2.5L Turbo Powertrain (EJ Series Factory 2.5L Turbo) 3 06-07-2010 03:38 PM

All times are GMT -4. The time now is 09:06 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.7.0
Copyright ©2000 - 2018, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Powered by Searchlight © 2018 Axivo Inc.
Copyright ©1999 - 2017, North American Subaru Impreza Owners Club, Inc.