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12-03-2010, 01:00 AM | #1 |
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Staggered wheel - same tire size question
Please do not come in here to comment "zomg dont you know that staggered is bad for AWD" because I dont care what you have to say.
So the wheels are the same weight, and within a couple of mm from the outside due to the wider pair having a higher offset than the narrower lower offset pair.. my question is - to achieve similar looking sidewalls, would it be acceptable to run two different tire brands. I would match the treadwear rating likely, i just want to run a tire that runs "narrow" on the narrower wheel, and a tire that runs "wide" for the size on the wider wheels. to, in theory run a set up that is closer in appearance to non staggered.. what i want to avoid is the one pair looking stretched or bulged in comparison to the other two. cliff notes: two different tire brands for front and rear = ok? or = problematic? and if so please explain why
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12-03-2010, 01:31 AM | #2 |
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Two different brands may run 'tall' or 'short' as well. Why not just find two different sized tires with the same brand and same diameter? 225/45/17 and 255/40/17 for instance, and several others too if you check the specs on tirerack.com
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12-03-2010, 01:35 AM | #3 |
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the issue is diameter
compare the revs per mile and diameter Last edited by Uncle Scotty; 12-03-2010 at 01:44 AM. |
12-03-2010, 10:13 AM | #4 |
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I wouldn't run different tire brands or even different models of tires within the same brand even if they had the same wear rating
its an inexact measurement of tire wear, its more an estimate then a standard, and you could very likely end up with a significant difference in diameter as the tires wear Sticking with the same model of tire will help minimize the possible wear differences between the 2, but I think you'll still run into issues since you won't be able to rotate your tires its your car, so go for it if you want, just don't come back and cry if your center diff goes out on you and subaru tells you to pound sand if you try to get it covered under warranty |
12-03-2010, 11:19 AM | #5 |
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what scotty said plus
same size and diameter wheels ex: 17x8 brand a and 17x8 brand b diffent offsets=fine mixed tires same size= possible different circumfrences, different wear rates, differing grip= unstable, unreliable, unpredictable, and possibly unsafe. i totalled my first subaru and i feel mixed tires was a contributing factor |
12-03-2010, 07:01 PM | #6 |
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As stated before, you the issue is the rolling circumference of the tires. Spread tires across different widths, and the circumference changes. Staggering offsets is A-OK, but widths + tires is a no-no.
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12-03-2010, 08:43 PM | #7 |
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I ran two different tire brands for quite a while as the result of the lazy dealership replacing a bubbled sidewall with a different brand on the rear when I purchased my WRX (both rear of course). Diameters were the same, ware ratings the same, never ran into any problems.
Even if I did encounter resulting mechanical trouble, it would have given me a great excuse to kick the 4eat (Also, Keep in mind that staggering wheel width will change the aspect ratio of the tire and cause different diameters, i.e. b/c of stretching etc. Only stagger offset) |
12-04-2010, 05:58 PM | #8 |
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thanks for the input fellas. plastic foam man - stretching the tire does not change diameter of the tire, as least thats based on current literature.
the wheels are 18x8 +38, and 18x9 +42, and was planning on running 225/40/18 all around. |
12-04-2010, 07:03 PM | #9 | ||
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Quote:
This is incorrect. Stretching a tire reduces its overall rolling diameter. Quote:
18x9 or 18x8 all around. there is absolutely 0 reasons to run staggered widths on a subaru. |
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12-04-2010, 10:15 PM | #10 | ||
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Quote:
Quote:
the reason is because i cant find these wheels non staggered - was not offered. i've never driven my car hard enough to get understeer. it's a 2.5i daily driver, never seen the track, and likely never will. could i not just pull the awd fuse and run fwd only? will i still burn out the center diff that way? |
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12-04-2010, 10:34 PM | #11 |
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i dont need to prove anything, its called logic. if you stretch out a 225 over a 9" wheel, it will have a different circumference than if you put it on a 7" wheel. if the sidewall has to flex to fit the width of the wheel, that lowers the effective height of the sidewall.
it doesnt matter if you see track time, that is something that ANYONE will encounter. Subaru doesn't just have an "awd fuse" like the skylines do. if these wheels aren't sold in non-staggered sets from where you are seeing them, its a good hint that you shouldn't buy them. why can't you just get 2 pairs of fronts then? Last edited by sc00by4life; 12-05-2010 at 01:05 AM. |
12-04-2010, 10:35 PM | #12 |
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Wow....
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12-04-2010, 10:48 PM | #13 | |
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Quote:
- cited from tirerack. |
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12-04-2010, 11:03 PM | #14 |
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ok im going to be "that guy" and ask why your trying to do this in the first place? im not trying to flame you but regardless of what anyone on here says your risking damaging your car over this and i guess i want to know why you would take that risk.
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12-04-2010, 11:13 PM | #15 |
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found a set of wheels ive been dreaming of for this car ever since i bought it. already have the wheels, and will be running them regardless. a few years ago everyone was terrified to run anything lower than 45et, now guys are out there on 10 and 11s with +18et and what not..
same weight, similar poke, same diameter, i dont see what the problem will be.. owners manual also states that 1/2" in diameter difference is acceptable. |
12-04-2010, 11:22 PM | #16 |
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well if thats what your into then go ahead and do it, i personally would never do that to my car ever, but its your car so do what ever you want to it but like i said regardless of what anyone says your taking a risk because theres not a lot of people that do that type of thing to their subaru because honestly it makes absolutely no sense.
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12-05-2010, 12:04 AM | #17 | |
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Quote:
Low offsets =! a proven mechanical issue. extra hub stress is a bit different than burning out a center diff in 10,000 miles. If you want to do it, go for it, but unlike low offsets, this WILL cause proven issues. Last edited by sc00by4life; 12-05-2010 at 01:04 AM. |
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12-05-2010, 12:54 AM | #18 |
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Can you show me where these proven issues are though? I've searched and can't find any first hand accounts of staggered wheels actually causes problems on a Subaru.
And about the 1/2" difference, that is regarding diameter, not width. So, 4/10th aka 2/5 of an inch difference in rolling diameter, being less than 1/2", is within tolerances... I am not here to challenge YOU, I am merely discussing what I believe could be a myth when taking into account the numbers: - 1/2" tolerance in difference of rolling diameter = 50% - according to your calculations 2/5th of an inch in difference of rolling diameter = 40% (10% under max tolerance, tricky math I know lol). ----- I'm not so sure how a difference in diameter of wheel equates to different rolling diameter, unless you were taking into account tire size in that calculation. - Confirmation from tirerack that only section width changes by stretching, not overall diameter due to the steel belted tire. Bare in mind it will only be a mild stretch. - Weights of the wheels are identical - literally to the decimal, so rolling mass would not be different. - difference in offset, is the 9" wheel pokes only 0.356" or 9mm over the 8. (not really a significant difference in my opinion. Discuss. |
12-05-2010, 01:03 AM | #19 |
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The information that I got from Subaru, said that the tolerance is only 1/4". Google subaru "torque bind".
Last edited by sc00by4life; 12-05-2010 at 01:09 AM. |
12-05-2010, 01:25 AM | #20 |
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Ok, well difference between 1/4" and 2/5" is only 3mm. PSI of tire can make more a difference than that.
I would assume that Subaru uses a conservative figure for that. I will keep searching and see if I can find any first hand accounts of staggered widths being a real world issue, lots of hypotheticals out there.. Don't forget people run spacers all day to clear brakes which would disperse weight differently front to back. I would assume rolling mass stuck outwards and stress due to that would be more of an issue than a few mm of difference in diameter. Which according to tire rack, there shouldnt be anyhow. |
12-05-2010, 12:27 PM | #21 | ||
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Quote:
Quote:
The contrary is the case. He's dialing out understeer at the expense of steering response. Last edited by Byzantium; 12-05-2010 at 12:38 PM. |
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12-05-2010, 02:57 PM | #22 | |
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Quote:
1/4" in rolling CIRCUMFERENCE???? that's only 1/32" in terms of tread!!! I think that's highly optimistic on the part of Subaru, because 1-2psi would make a greater difference than that. So would a pair of heavy rear-seat passengers and some luggage (which is fairly common on long trips). Does that mean if I take a couple of heavy dudes on a vacation that my diff will blow up? I think not! |
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12-05-2010, 03:04 PM | #23 | |
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Quote:
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12-05-2010, 04:07 PM | #24 |
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12-05-2010, 04:53 PM | #25 |
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1" taller than stock. They'll fit. 4% error on the speedo isn't so bad
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