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Old 09-27-2007, 11:44 PM   #1
JOWANKEL
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Question Advise on enginuity log

I already figured out that I had a faulty egt sensor sense I've got a catless up pipe, did the resistor mod already for that. I would just like to see if anyone can lend me some advice, as to how my car is running.

Mods- Helix Bellmouth DP, Helix UP, Apexi N1 cat-back exhaust, Cobb AP v1. stg. 2 93 oct.

Problems-
-CEL p0171 engine running to lean, only turns on after about 50 miles or so, and it usually turns on while I'm in vacuum, or driving slowly
-3-4k rpm studder
-Boost flutter, I hit max boost at around 16.7 psi, then tappers down to low 15's. Also, If I stomp it it 4th or 5th gear it will hit max boost tapper down and then hit again. It goes in between 2 psi, back and forth.

If there are any other things you would like me to log to help with the diagnosis, please let me know!

Any help would be greatly appreciated!

Thanks,
Joshua


Time, Air/Fuel Sensor #1 (Lambda), Engine Speed (rpm), Exhaust Gas Temperature (F), Mass Air Flow (g/s), Vehicle Speed (mph), Throttle Opening Angle (%), Fuel Consumption (Est.), (mpg (US)), Coolant Temperature (F), Idle Speed Control Valve Duty Ratio (%), Injector Duty Cycle (%), Air/Fuel Correction #1 (%), Air/Fuel Correction #3 (%), Air/Fuel Learning #1 (%)............................................... ........................
0 0.96 1016 689 4.15 50 0 133.43 180 34.5 1.95 0 0 3.91
240 0.98 1239 689 4.21 50 0 155.13 180 34.5 2.02 0 0 3.91
471 1 1750 689 3.68 48 0 160.1 180 36 2.24 0 0 3.91
721 1.19 2343 689 3.68 48 0 154.88 180 38.5 2.5 -0.78 0 3.91
951 1.56 2868 689 4.37 48 0.39 178.83 180 41.5 0 0 0 3.91
1182 1.58 3388 689 4.98 48 2.75 128.68 180 42.5 4.34 0 0 3.91
1432 1.35 3357 689 7.5 47 7.45 64.19 180 43 5.01 0 0 2.34
1662 1.19 3344 689 11.54 47 15.29 30.48 180 43 7.28 0 0 3.12
1903 1.26 3394 689 21.63 47 20 24.11 180 43 10.86 0 0 4.69
2143 1.16 3377 689 28.59 47 27.45 15.24 180 43 18.73 25 0 5.47
2383 1.01 3421 689 41.85 46 31.37 9.61 180 52.5 22.93 25 0 6.25
2624 0.95 3498 689 55.85 46 38.04 7.29 180 65.5 25.37 0 0 7.03
2844 1.12 3585 689 70.1 47 40.78 6.91 180 87 35.18 0 0 6.25
3124 1 3655 689 90.44 47 41.18 5.82 180 95 39.21 0 0 5.47
3375 0.98 3797 689 95.36 48 41.18 5.72 180 95 40.5 0 0 4.69
3615 0.97 3892 689 97.39 48 41.18 5.59 180 95 41.51 0 0 3.91
3845 0.94 4023 689 103.65 51 41.96 5.42 180 95 44.63 0 0 3.12
4086 0.95 4087 689 103.65 51 44.71 5.04 180 95 46.21 0 0 2.34
4316 0.95 4232 689 108.75 53 60.39 5 180 95 52.37 0 0 2.34
4577 0.88 4365 689 119.9 53 73.73 4.27 180 95 56.81 0 0 1.56
4827 0.92 4467 689 129.82 57 89.41 4.32 180 95 62.89 0 0 0
5067 0.82 4607 689 145.3 57 99.22 3.65 180 95 66.83 0 0 0
5298 0.8 4728 689 149.53 59 100 3.66 180 95 68.59 0 0 0
5558 0.77 4857 689 151.73 59 100 3.45 180 95 72.53 0 0 0
5808 0.77 4934 689 155.59 62 100 3.49 181 95 71.58 0 0 0
6049 0.77 5074 689 160.08 62 100 3.4 181 95 74.69 0 0 0
6309 0.77 5194 689 164.6 66 100 3.54 181 95 75.34 0 0 0
6539 0.77 5326 689 167.3 66 100 3.48 181 95 78.41 0 0 0
6780 0.77 5446 689 170.4 70 100 3.68 181 95 80.17 0 0 0
7020 0.77 5560 689 170.39 70 100 3.62 181 95 82.02 0 0 0
7260 0.77 5686 689 173.15 73 87.06 3.74 181 95 82.48 0 0 0
7501 0.94 6614 689 174.87 73 0 7.7 181 95 31.04 0 0 0
7731 0.84 6493 689 104.13 75 0 56.77 181 95 0 0 0 0
7971 1.65 6058 689 13.02 75 0 91.86 181 95 0 0 0 0
8212 1.64 5482 689 16.26 77 0.78 89.18 180 95 0 0 0 1.56
8452 1.1 5088 689 16.67 77 9.8 39.16 180 90.5 11.94 0 0 2.34
8682 1.33 4814 689 25.9 78 16.08 34.27 180 80.5 15.21 0 0 3.91
8933 1.32 4300 689 39.67 78 17.65 27.05 180 72.5 18.35 19.53 0 5.47
9173 1 4012 689 44.59 78 21.96 15.8 180 65.5 25.68 25 0 6.25
9413 1.04 4087 689 57.81 78 24.31 17.08 180 66.5 24.41 0 0 6.25
9654 1.26 4071 689 64.34 78 26.27 17.66 180 70.5 25.19 0 0 5.47
9894 1.27 4102 689 65.04 78 30.98 16.42 178 80 27.13 0 0 4.69
10134 1.22 4132 689 71.42 78 34.12 14.68 178 92 29.09 0 0 3.91
10365 1.16 4130 689 75.94 79 38.82 12.96 178 95 32.6 0 0 3.12
10615 1.07 4171 689 82.79 79 43.92 9.88 178 95 38.14 0 0 2.34
10856 0.98 4185 689 95.36 80 48.24 9.03 178 95 43.75 0 0 2.34
11096 0.9 4228 689 105.58 80 52.94 7.33 178 95 50.5 0 0 1.56
11346 0.91 4293 689 115.47 81 54.9 7.01 178 95 54.15 0 0 1.56
11587 0.89 4322 689 121.75 81 58.43 6.52 178 95 57.17 0 0 0
11817 0.86 4350 689 129.82 82 62.35 6.15 178 95 58.21 0 0 0
12057 0.88 4398 689 134.86 82 66.67 6.19 178 95 59.12 0 0 0
12298 0.83 4443 689 136.32 83 66.67 6.1 178 95 60.66 0 0 0
12548 0.82 4523 689 136.62 83 67.84 5.67 178 95 62.72 0 0 0
12788 0.8 4532 689 141.71 85 68.24 5.63 178 95 63.8 0 0 0
13019 0.8 4627 689 143.2 85 68.24 5.62 178 95 64.16 0 0 0
13259 0.8 4661 689 142.01 88 59.22 5.59 178 95 66.66 0 0 0
13499 0.91 4732 689 146.8 88 15.69 11.39 178 95 22.21 0 0 0
13740 0.93 4990 689 81.97 89 0 66.76 178 95 7.45 0 0 0
13970 1.67 4542 689 15.04 89 0 107.44 178 95 0 0 0 0.78
14200 1.64 4249 689 16.26 89 0 106.17 178 91 0 0 0 2.34
14461 1.64 3838 689 16.26 89 0 116.25 180 78.5 0 0 0 3.91
14701 1.67 3453 689 14.08 89 0 137.98 180 5 0 0 0 5.47
14931 1.62 3464 689 12.75 89 0 157.92 180 64.5 0 0 0 6.25
15182 1.64 3424 689 11.14 89 0 172.47 180 56.5 0 0 0 7.03
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Old 09-28-2007, 05:12 PM   #2
veightkiller
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can you attach your log as a file? it's so hard to read with all those numbers.
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Old 09-28-2007, 06:19 PM   #3
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It's like being in the matrix
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Old 09-30-2007, 10:13 AM   #4
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You are still running the stock airbox correct?
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Old 10-04-2007, 01:15 PM   #5
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Alright... finally figured out how to post my logs. Below is a 3rd gear pull from 2k rpm's to redline. Let me know what you think!

If you can't figure out which columns are which because half the description was cut off. Here they are in order: Time, Engine Speed, Engine Load (g/rev), Boost Error (psi), Ignition Timing (degrees), Ignition Timing Advance (degrees), Feedback Knock Correction (degrees), Fine Learning Knock Correction (degrees), Manifold Realative Pressure (psi), Throttle Opening Angle (%), Primary Wastegate Duty Cycle (%), CL/ OL Fueling (status), A/F Learning #1 (%), A/F Correction #1 (%), Mass Air Flow (g/s), IAM (raw ECU value)......





Thanks,
Joshua
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Old 10-04-2007, 01:16 PM   #6
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Yes.... stock airbox
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Old 10-04-2007, 03:00 PM   #7
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Had the same CEL on my wife's car (stock) and it was a bad front O2 sensor. Here is a thread to help you out:
http://forums.nasioc.com/forums/show...ighlight=p0171

Based on your logs it looks like you did the pull right after reseting your ecu. Your AF learning is 0 and your AF correction is ~ 25. Try taking a log once you see the CEL, I am willing to bet the AF learning will be maxed out. Look at the link above for troubleshooting ideas.

For your studdering problem it is probably related to your CEL. Your ECU thinks you are running lean so it is dumping more fuel into the engine. If it really isn't lean then you are probably running super rich which could cause the studder. Also if you really are running lean that could possibly also cause a studder. Does it studder right after an ECU reset (did it studder in the log you posted)? CN for this is to fix your CEL and I bet this one goes away.

For the boost issue it looks ok to me. Boost is supposed to taper as you approach redline (especially with the td04). Your boost oscillation in higher gears is normal side effect of trying to build boost fast in lower gears. Unless it is really bad you shouldn't have to worry about it. A protune could fix this if it bothers you.
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Old 10-05-2007, 08:07 AM   #8
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Try cleaning out the pill in the vac line.If that doesn't help try adding alittle more preload to the wastegate arm and see if the oscillations stop.Why is your IAM 12?Did you just reset?I would email that log to Cobb as well if you have not.

Last edited by quazimoto; 10-05-2007 at 08:14 AM.
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Old 10-05-2007, 11:59 AM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dumdum View Post
Try cleaning out the pill in the vac line.If that doesn't help try adding alittle more preload to the wastegate arm and see if the oscillations stop.Why is your IAM 12?Did you just reset?I would email that log to Cobb as well if you have not.
+1 Cobb should know how to intemperate this log better than us
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Old 10-05-2007, 12:08 PM   #10
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guys, the boost in that log looks fine. Tuning boost (at least until we have access to per gear wastegate tables) is a compromise of when you want to build boost. You could tune boost such that you can get full boost at low RPM in first gear but then your higher gears would spike and oscillate. You could tune for best results in top gear but then your lower gears would suffer slower throttle response. Generally boost is tuned in the mid range of your gears (3rd/4th) so that you still get decent spool in low gears and controllable boost in higher gears.

Also it does look like this log was taken after a reset. AF learning is still 0 and IAM is at the cobb default. Also dropping IAM isn't always a sign of problems. Sometimes it happens. If it is frequent or severe then something needs to be done to address it but in and of itself IAM not at 16 isn't something to panic about.
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Old 10-05-2007, 01:59 PM   #11
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You are having knock starting at 5000 rpms on up, very bad knock too because it is pulling up to 8 degrees of timing. You can see it in the feedback knock correction column which is from knock happening at that particular point. I would get the car tuned ASAP.

Your MAF reading looks very low so it is probably lean with too much timing, I'd clean the maf before going to your tuner.

Edit: just checked some logs. 12psi @ 6500 rpm should have ~205 g/s or so. you are at ~175. Thats about 16% off of normal readings.

Last edited by Master2192; 10-05-2007 at 02:04 PM.
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Old 10-05-2007, 04:28 PM   #12
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So I should be going for a tune to fix my problem?.... Last night I took the I/C off, and the air box.... checked all the boost and vaccum lines, and checked my turbo inlet hose for leaks, and couldnt find anything. I also cleaned out my MAF sensor. I have tried emailing cobb several times and they never seem to have time to answer any of my questions and am pretty fed up with there customer service.... Oh well, I guess I will be talking to a tuner shop this weekend about getting it tuned, I just hate to spend all this money on a tune just for a stage 2 application, when I spent 400 bucks already on the damn cobb AP that I thought would run fine, and is pretty much usless/ hurting my car right now. Thanks alot for your help guys.

I've got a 1-3 gear pull, idle, and 3rd gear 1800 to redline pull logs, if you guys would like to seem them, to help in the diagnosis.

Thanks,
Joshua
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Old 10-05-2007, 04:38 PM   #13
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Here are a few of the latest logs I've recorded.

91 oct. stage 2 map... first log is a 3rd gear pull from 1800 rpms to redline. The second log is of idle for 30 seconds.

Let me know what you guys think!

3rd gear WOT-








Idle 30 seconds-







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Old 10-05-2007, 04:57 PM   #14
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did you get your CEL figured out? I would fix that before doing anything else (including taking it to a tuner).
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Old 10-05-2007, 05:21 PM   #15
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Nope haven't figured out why I'm still getting the CEL. Cleaned the MAF sensor, checked for post-MAF leaks, check all my boost/ vaccum lines, etc. Cant find anything out of the ordinary. I'm stumped.

Joshua
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Old 10-05-2007, 05:23 PM   #16
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I carry my laptop around with me in my car, so next time I get a CEL, I will for sure try to log it, or log it right after it comes on. Will that help in anyway to try to pin-point where the problem is?

Thanks,
Joshua
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Old 10-05-2007, 05:35 PM   #17
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dude why is ur IAM showing up as a 32 bit ECU when you are running a 16 bit? are you sure you are running the right map & latest definitions???
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Old 10-05-2007, 05:56 PM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JOWANKEL View Post
I carry my laptop around with me in my car, so next time I get a CEL, I will for sure try to log it, or log it right after it comes on. Will that help in anyway to try to pin-point where the problem is?

Thanks,
Joshua
did you try all of the suggestions from the link I posted above? When I was seeing this CEL on my wife's car it was the front O2 sensor. You could also try doing a leak down test to see if you have a boost leak.
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Old 10-05-2007, 06:14 PM   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by t4nk View Post
dude why is ur IAM showing up as a 32 bit ECU when you are running a 16 bit? are you sure you are running the right map & latest definitions???
You can select the equivalent multiplier (0-1.0) or the raw value (0-16) for 16-bit ecus with Enginuity's logger.
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Old 10-05-2007, 06:19 PM   #20
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Send me a few of the latest logs and your ROM file. I will look at it. If I see an obvious problem with the tune I will let you know..and possibly correct it. Definitely listen to some of the other suggestions and make sure everything is mechanically sound. I would be more than happy to help you out.

Be sure to send me a list of ALL of your mods and pertinent info about the car too.

-J

I am by no means saying I will re-tune the car, but if there is something I can do to make it a little safer for you until you can get to a tuner, I would be more than happy to help.

Last edited by JMS77; 10-05-2007 at 06:40 PM.
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Old 10-05-2007, 06:22 PM   #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by brettm View Post
guys, the boost in that log looks fine. Tuning boost (at least until we have access to per gear wastegate tables) is a compromise of when you want to build boost. You could tune boost such that you can get full boost at low RPM in first gear but then your higher gears would spike and oscillate. You could tune for best results in top gear but then your lower gears would suffer slower throttle response. Generally boost is tuned in the mid range of your gears (3rd/4th) so that you still get decent spool in low gears and controllable boost in higher gears.

Also it does look like this log was taken after a reset. AF learning is still 0 and IAM is at the cobb default. Also dropping IAM isn't always a sign of problems. Sometimes it happens. If it is frequent or severe then something needs to be done to address it but in and of itself IAM not at 16 isn't something to panic about.
He should not be getting oscillations like that of a Cobb stage1 map though.Thats not normal.Dropping IAM generally is always bad i thought.
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Old 10-05-2007, 06:23 PM   #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tea cups View Post
You can select the equivalent multiplier (0-1.0) or the raw value (0-16) for 16-bit ecus with Enginuity's logger.
AH forgot about that, i'm just used to seeing equivilent in logs on 32 bit's and raw in 16 bits..
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