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Old 09-25-2012, 10:11 AM   #4451
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yeah, coaches too. And all they do is yell from the sideline. They don't even have to run like the refs do.
Plus they get free headphones. I have always wondered what is on their playlists. Must be good because they listen to music most of the game.
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Old 09-25-2012, 10:12 AM   #4452
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I have to agree with an earlier point; it's become painfully clear that they are worth the $$. They have the bargaining power at this point. Yes, the NFL is not losing viewers, but they've become a national joke. Even local news broadcasts are piling on now.
Again, it's not a fair comparison.

Some of these guys are HIGH SCHOOL refs!

The performance of a completely unqualified HS ref is not evidence that these guys are worth the $$$ compared to many many other well-trained refs out there who would be available to ref if it weren't for the timing of this whole thing.



***Listen, I'm not saying it doesn't suck. But if the union wants to throw it's weight around, given how well they're already compensated, I really don't take issue with the NFL taking the heat this season, and coming back strong next year with a new, qualified reffing core.
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Old 09-25-2012, 10:13 AM   #4453
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where do you suggest that they get these "qualified" refs from?
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Old 09-25-2012, 10:15 AM   #4454
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Maybe Goodell is waiting to collect fines from coaches and players to pay the regs what they want?

Brilliant!
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Old 09-25-2012, 10:17 AM   #4455
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I think you are MASSIVELY underestimating the time they spend. Hochuli spends > 40 hrs a week on the ref stuff, despite being a successful lawyer. Do more research, you are judging them by a couple of hours a week for 16 weeks and that isn't even close.

http://sports.yahoo.com/news/nfl--no...s-referee.html

OK.


Let me rephrase then. I'm sure they put in hours, go to training sessions, etc.

However, it is a part time job, as many of them work full-tiem careers whie still being a ref.

This is entirely different from say, an umpire, who refs many games throughout the week. That is their full-time job.

Anyway, the original point was that NFL refs don't get paid the same as umpires, or hockey officials.

Well, that's simply because it's a 16 game season, with weekend games. You can't compare that to an umpire. Who simply can't work another job.
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Old 09-25-2012, 10:17 AM   #4456
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(212) 450 2027

Give Goodell a call and leave a nice message about how your feeling
How my feeling what?
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Old 09-25-2012, 10:20 AM   #4457
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OK.


Let me rephrase then. I'm sure they put in hours, go to training sessions, etc.

However, it is a part time job, as many of them work full-tiem careers whie still being a ref.

This is entirely different from say, an umpire, who refs many games throughout the week. That is their full-time job.

Anyway, the original point was that NFL refs don't get paid the same as umpires, or hockey officials.

Well, that's simply because it's a 16 game season, with weekend games. You can't compare that to an umpire. Who simply can't work another job.
How much do MLB umpires make per year?
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Old 09-25-2012, 10:21 AM   #4458
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where do you suggest that they get these "qualified" refs from?
I was under the impression, and correct me if I'm wrong, that they weren't able to draw from, say, the top tier college refs given the time frame, etc.

There were also apparently some good refs that didn't want to go in as a scab, as they thought it would hurt their future chances with the union later in their careers.

In any event, these guys got thrown to the wolves with no preparation, no training, no nothing.

An off-season woth of the very same prep the top level NFL guys go through?

Might they be a very good bit better next year?

For $2,700/hr., I think I might be willing to find out.

























C/N I'm jelly I'm not an NFL ref.
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Old 09-25-2012, 10:22 AM   #4459
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I would like to have seen the aftermath from this game had the refs call won the game for Green Bay.
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Old 09-25-2012, 10:23 AM   #4460
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How much do MLB umpires make per year?
Starting $120k, up to about $350k....says the google machine. And again, these guys can't work another job during the week like many many NFL guys do.
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Old 09-25-2012, 10:23 AM   #4461
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I would like to have seen the aftermath from this game had the refs call won the game for Green Bay.
At the very least, a blatant shove in the back by Tate should have been called. That would have been fair.
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Old 09-25-2012, 10:25 AM   #4462
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At the very least, a blatant shove in the back by Tate should have been called. That would have been fair.
That ain't getting called.

The aftermath would've been a few hundred Seahawk fans being upset vs the entire NFL viewing population.
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Old 09-25-2012, 10:26 AM   #4463
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At the very least, a blatant shove in the back by Tate should have been called. That would have been fair.
I'm saying if Green Bay was throwing instead of Seattle. SWAT may have had to have been called to Q-West field
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Old 09-25-2012, 10:30 AM   #4464
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That's because they hardly have to work more than 20 days a year. Whereas a baseball ump is working MUCH more.

It's a part time job for god sakes.
Yes it is a part time job, but you also have to account for the fact that this might be the ONLY job these people have because not everyone can find a job that would be so accommodating to a traveling NFL ref for 17+ weeks. They might have to ref monday nights, thursday nights, and what if they ref a sunday night match 2,000 miles from home? They can't work the next day because of travel.
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Old 09-25-2012, 10:31 AM   #4465
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That ain't getting called.

The aftermath would've been a few hundred Seahawk fans being upset vs the entire NFL viewing population.
YEah, you are not gonna see penalties being called during a hail mary, no time on the clock, play.
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Old 09-25-2012, 10:34 AM   #4466
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Again, it's not a fair comparison.

Some of these guys are HIGH SCHOOL refs!

The performance of a completely unqualified HS ref is not evidence that these guys are worth the $$$ compared to many many other well-trained refs out there who would be available to ref if it weren't for the timing of this whole thing.



***Listen, I'm not saying it doesn't suck. But if the union wants to throw it's weight around, given how well they're already compensated, I really don't take issue with the NFL taking the heat this season, and coming back strong next year with a new, qualified reffing core.
Its the only comparison there is though and that has put the union in a position of strength. It has made it very clear that given the other options, at least in the short term, they are worth the $.


Yes, they are well compensated, but like has been said, they don't just show up and work at game time anymore than the players and coaches do. This 3 weeks has made it clear that they are very much a part of the quality, safety and integrity of game and the product the NFL is making HUGE $ on. Why shouldn't they get a big chuck of that? I think they deserve every penny - before the last 3 weeks I wouldn't have thought that I don't think.

At this point it is only going to get worse due to the increased scrutiny and publicity. Another 3 weeks and there WILL be backlash from fans. I don't know how there couldn't be. I was the officials union rep I'd just wait till they met current demands.
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Old 09-25-2012, 10:40 AM   #4467
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http://www.humanevents.com/2012/09/2...sly-suspected/

Union issues, pension issues, salary issues.

I heard on talk radio that the NFL might be trying to just bust the union on this one, play the whole season with the scrub refs and then just go out next year and get the D-1 college refs to come in. All the refs now are D-II or D-III for the most part and it is obvious they just can't keep up...
The D1 refs are probably getting paid more, and they still **** up on a regular basis.
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Old 09-25-2012, 10:44 AM   #4468
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They are losing me. I am making plans for Sunday that don't involve foosball.
I'm sure that will work out for you.
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Old 09-25-2012, 10:45 AM   #4469
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i wonder how many people lost money because of the blown call.


that ref should probably go in hiding.
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Old 09-25-2012, 10:46 AM   #4470
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i wonder how many people lost money because of the blown call.


that ref should probably go in hiding.


http://espn.go.com/nfl/story/_/id/84...-150-250m-bets
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Old 09-25-2012, 10:47 AM   #4471
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i wonder how many people lost money because of the blown call.


that ref should probably go in hiding.
$150M-$250M in MNF bets shifted

Monday night's controversial touchdown call that gave the Seattle Seahawks a 14-12 victory over the Green Bay Packers had an immediate impact for gamblers.

If the Hail Mary pass by Seahawks quarterback Russell Wilson would have been ruled an interception by Packers safety M.D. Jennings, Green Bay -- 3 point favorites -- would have won by five, covering the spread.

Instead, the replacement officials' call that Seahawks wide receiver Golden Tate had possession shifted all those who bet on the Packers to those who took the underdog Seahawks.

"Most of the customers in the sportsbook were not happy with the final call," said John Avello, director of the race and sportsbook at the Wynn in Las Vegas. "The shift was 100 percent. After the (Seahawks) score, all bets were reversed."


Forty years of improved technology, and the NFL is still at the same place as it was for "The Immaculate Reception," writes John Clayton. Story

The Packers have the NFL MVP while the Seahawks have a stout defense, and neither was any match for the guys in stripes, writes Mike Sando. Blog

Can we now, in unison and without debate, agree that the NFL's plan to replace its locked-out refs has failed spectacularly, asks Kevin Seifert. Blog


Avello's best guess as to how much money was shifted worldwide on the call? $150 million in total bets worldwide.

Jeff Sherman, assistant director of the race and sportsbook at the Las Vegas Hotel, says he estimates that the game shifted $15 million in Nevada alone and also concurs with Avello that the worldwide number, including offshore sportsbooks and in Europe, is worth about 10 times more.

Those who take bets online estimated the shift in money was even greater.

Mike Perry, spokesman for betting site Sportsbook.ag, told ESPN.com his estimate in the money swing on the call at the end of the game is closer to between $200 million and $250 million.

Perry said that 70 to 80 percent of the money on his site was put on the Packers, which is in line with the percentage bet in Vegas. At Mandalay Bay, the sportsbook took in about $500,000 in total bets, with about 85 percent of the money on the Packers.

Oddsmaker Danny Sheridan, who sets the lines for USA Today, had the highest estimate of those surveyed by ESPN.com. Sheridan said Tuesday morning that he believes that $1 billion in total money changed hands with the touchdown call.

While there has been no way to handicap the exact part that replacement officials play in spreads, Avello says that it's not the first time this year that spreads have been altered by bad calls.

"It's the first call that has directly affected the outcome, but there have been many that have affected the outcome or the spread directly," he said.

The call didn't just have an immediate impact on gamblers, it also impacted the Packers' Super Bowl odds. After Monday night's game, the Las Vegas Hotel has changed the odds for the Packers to win the Super Bowl from 7-1 Monday to 9-1 Tuesday.
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Old 09-25-2012, 10:49 AM   #4472
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That's a lot of Coronas.
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Old 09-25-2012, 10:52 AM   #4473
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Yes it is a part time job, but you also have to account for the fact that this might be the ONLY job these people have because not everyone can find a job that would be so accommodating to a traveling NFL ref for 17+ weeks. They might have to ref monday nights, thursday nights, and what if they ref a sunday night match 2,000 miles from home? They can't work the next day because of travel.
I can only imagine the toll it takes on their professions outside football. Which is why I think it fair to pay them enough to really make it a non-issue.

Almost $150k, growing to almost $200k in 5 years, IMHO, is pretty darn good all things considered.
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Old 09-25-2012, 11:11 AM   #4474
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You do realize that most of the regular refs are rich white guys who are doctors and lawyers and financial professionals during the week, right?
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Old 09-25-2012, 11:18 AM   #4475
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Wow, that scab crew was the same one that did the Rams/Skins game the weekend before.
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