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02-09-2010, 09:14 PM | #126 | |
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Not to mention that a sway bar will make the car even more upset by mid-corner bumps, creating a problem similar to not having enough travel. EDIT: Re-read what you said and you said what I said. I'm going to leave my statement in case other people read the way I did at first.
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02-09-2010, 09:14 PM | #127 |
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BDI: what kind of swaybars are you running?
If droop is indeed strut limited a helper spring may help. Usually Subarus lift rear wheels, which is never good for power delivery. P.S. 600# springs on street tires?! Boost Junkie: I mentioned motion ratios as that is one of the factors that effects strut travel. I thought this was a Suspension Tech section. I always prefer more technical talk and less BS. |
02-09-2010, 09:15 PM | #128 |
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02-09-2010, 09:18 PM | #129 | ||
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How on earth do you come to that conclusion? Helper springs prevent the main spring from rattling loose when the suspension is drooping. They don't magically change the travel of the damper.
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Yup, just another reason big front sways aren't always a good idea. |
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02-09-2010, 09:21 PM | #130 |
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02-09-2010, 09:25 PM | #131 | |
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Yes 600lb springs with street tires. Its a auto-x dedicated car and im on the softer side. In that pic...it does have a 27/29mm fsb set to 27mm and a stock rsb. But note...I have experienced the samething with my 24/26mm fsb...limited droop is just that...limit droop. |
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02-09-2010, 09:30 PM | #132 | |
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02-09-2010, 09:33 PM | #133 | |
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02-09-2010, 09:46 PM | #134 | |
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If my coil over is stroke limited, doesn't the DA setup allow me to make whatever height adjustment I want provided I stay within the safe range of adjustment for the bottom bracket? IF I set my ride height at 15" (from hub to fender arch) or 12" I still have the same amount of damper stroke, provided the car isn't scraping the ground. Isn't the idea of a DA coil over that it has NO effect on damper stroke? |
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02-09-2010, 09:51 PM | #135 | |
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If you add a 2" helper spring, you just added 2" of droop to your suspension (at the expense of bump travel). |
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02-09-2010, 10:05 PM | #136 | |
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Think of it like this: Ask your self...what is holding the damper from fully pulling apart in your 1/2" droop travel example? Answer...not the main spring. The damper will droop until the damper bottoms out. The main spring will just rattle around. What the helper spring does is keep the main spring from moving around under full droop or when the main spring is no long in contact with both spring perches. |
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02-09-2010, 10:11 PM | #137 |
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I think what antonch is saying is if you back down the bottom perch and add a helper spring, you can add droop travel, but it would come at the expense of bump travel.
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02-09-2010, 10:26 PM | #138 | |
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On to your second point, preload is set such that the spring is ALWAYS in contact w/ the spring perch, even at full drop. Helper springs are generally not used in the front. |
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02-09-2010, 10:29 PM | #139 | ||||
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The most likely reason to make a DA system is to allow the use of a single damper housing on multiple different cars. Never assume a designer is doing something clever when they could just be doing something cheap. Quote:
Again, this is only the case in an a badly designed system. It would also lower the car, which may not be desirable. |
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02-09-2010, 10:33 PM | #140 | ||||
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Last edited by Daishi00; 02-09-2010 at 10:39 PM. |
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02-09-2010, 10:35 PM | #141 |
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02-09-2010, 10:37 PM | #142 | ||
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02-09-2010, 10:41 PM | #143 |
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I believe JRZ uses helper springs as well. Ohlins too (but I could be totally wrong).
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02-09-2010, 10:45 PM | #144 |
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Valid point.
But look at what else you had to get right to make it work: Spring length, rate, damper travel, bumpstop length, vehicle weight, tire clearance, etc, etc, etc. You made a very vehicle-specific, very cool, custom coilover setup which was largely facilitated by the fact that your dampers have, what, 8" of travel? You're also being helped by the fact that you're running moderate spring rates which give you enough compression at ride height to provide droop travel. It would be much harder (impossible?) to find a solution that did everything right at twice your spring rate without resorting to a helper spring. I know you know that, but it serves as a good example as why a SA-no-helper-spring-one-size-fits-all-cars setup is a BAD idea. |
02-09-2010, 10:55 PM | #145 | |
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I don't believe KW V3's come with helper spring in the front either. Helper springs allow you to have more droop by increasing the displacement that the strut travels. If you have a helper spring that takes 5" to fully compress, well then the strut will have to move by exactly 5" before it begins to compress the main spring. That is the strut travel lost in bump. |
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02-09-2010, 10:57 PM | #146 |
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02-09-2010, 11:08 PM | #147 | ||
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02-09-2010, 11:20 PM | #148 | ||
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LOL, this is the same guy that tried to convince me that more weight transfer==more overall grip in another thread. Quote:
I have since sold them. |
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02-09-2010, 11:26 PM | #149 | ||
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02-09-2010, 11:32 PM | #150 | |
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