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Old 02-21-2018, 01:21 PM   #26
JustyWRC
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Already spit it out.

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Old 02-21-2018, 10:08 PM   #27
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while the cvt is good for daily driving and yields good fuel economy despite the awd, it is limited in terms of performance. It can't go past certain tunes with confidence. The manual and 6 speed auto can better handle the stress and heat. The ascent engine is tuned for 87, what can the engine do tuned for 93 and getting a cold air intake, and getting freeier flowing exhaust.
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Old 02-21-2018, 11:04 PM   #28
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while the cvt is good for daily driving and yields good fuel economy despite the awd, it is limited in terms of performance. It can't go past certain tunes with confidence. The manual and 6 speed auto can better handle the stress and heat. The ascent engine is tuned for 87, what can the engine do tuned for 93 and getting a cold air intake, and getting freeier flowing exhaust.

For now. I was saying that more for why Subaru continues with the CVT. They have a bit of coin invested. And remember how far it's come. That first ECVT couldn't handle American driving on 71hp.
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Old 02-22-2018, 12:30 AM   #29
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Originally Posted by bugatti0628 View Post
while the cvt is good for daily driving and yields good fuel economy despite the awd, it is limited in terms of performance. It can't go past certain tunes with confidence. The manual and 6 speed auto can better handle the stress and heat. The ascent engine is tuned for 87, what can the engine do tuned for 93 and getting a cold air intake, and getting freeier flowing exhaust.
Based on what? I ask, because I don't honestly know. I haven't been tracking it, but I don't recall seeing any HTCVT failures that were due to mods. I'm sure I missed something.
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Old 02-22-2018, 09:39 AM   #30
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Based on what? I ask, because I don't honestly know. I haven't been tracking it, but I don't recall seeing any HTCVT failures that were due to mods. I'm sure I missed something.
ask cobb tuners how high they can go with certain stage tunes on the cvt on wrx, compared to manual on wrx.

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Old 02-22-2018, 11:34 AM   #31
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Probably safe to say they have a dedicated trans cooler on this HTCVT. On one of the promo pics I could see a plate style cooler thru the front grill. Probably for the CVT. I think a temp bypass to this cooler would occur after warm up or under certain load/temp conditions. There may be some other magic too like variator clamp pressure changes and CVT chain strengthening. However keeping it cool is the key.

DT
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Old 02-22-2018, 01:24 PM   #32
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I don't trust Subaru to offer a CVT than can safely perform much over what they spec for it.
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Old 02-22-2018, 01:30 PM   #33
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Probably safe to say they have a dedicated trans cooler on this HTCVT. On one of the promo pics I could see a plate style cooler thru the front grill. Probably for the CVT. I think a temp bypass to this cooler would occur after warm up or under certain load/temp conditions. There may be some other magic too like variator clamp pressure changes and CVT chain strengthening. However keeping it cool is the key.

DT
if it is rated for towing, you bet it's going to have a transcooler attached.
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Old 02-22-2018, 01:46 PM   #34
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I don't trust Subaru to offer a CVT than can safely perform much over what they spec for it.
Pretty much .
Meaning that it's going to be fine for 99% of Ascent owners that will never go much further than the mall or grocery store after picking up their kids from daycare/school/<whatever> practice.
Personally, if I needed to carry up to 7/8 passengers with anywhere close to 5K lbs in tow, I'd go Durango or Tahoe. And with the V8 please. Period.
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Old 02-22-2018, 03:05 PM   #35
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Pretty much .
Meaning that it's going to be fine for 99% of Ascent owners that will never go much further than the mall or grocery store after picking up their kids from daycare/school/<whatever> practice.
Personally, if I needed to carry up to 7/8 passengers with anywhere close to 5K lbs in tow, I'd go Durango or Tahoe. And with the V8 please. Period.
Why? You just agreed with this...

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if it is rated for towing, you bet it's going to have a transcooler attached.

So, towing 5000 pounds is what it is spec'd for..
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Old 02-22-2018, 03:39 PM   #36
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Why? You just agreed with this...




So, towing 5000 pounds is what it is spec'd for..
Because, I think most Ascent owners won't tow anything; not anywhere close to 5K anyways.
The HTCVT will never be truly taxed in these conditions and I'm sure Subaru's torque management will kick in big time to save the powertrain/drivetrain if things were to get out of hands (high tranny fluid temp, high engine oil temp, excessive knocking/pinging,...).
Basically, Ascent still has to prove that it can reliably and comfortably handle a 5K load and a set of passengers with their luggage.
With Tahoe and Durango, there's no guesswork, both Chevy's 6-speed and Dodge/ZF 8-speed are known quantities with fully disclosed torque capacity.
The new direct injected Chevy 5.3L in the Tahoe has been around for at least 4 years and the Dodge 5.7L Eagle has been around forever.
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Old 02-22-2018, 08:14 PM   #37
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Because, I think most Ascent owners won't tow anything; not anywhere close to 5K anyways.
The HTCVT will never be truly taxed in these conditions and I'm sure Subaru's torque management will kick in big time to save the powertrain/drivetrain if things were to get out of hands (high tranny fluid temp, high engine oil temp, excessive knocking/pinging,...).
Basically, Ascent still has to prove that it can reliably and comfortably handle a 5K load and a set of passengers with their luggage.
With Tahoe and Durango, there's no guesswork, both Chevy's 6-speed and Dodge/ZF 8-speed are known quantities with fully disclosed torque capacity.
The new direct injected Chevy 5.3L in the Tahoe has been around for at least 4 years and the Dodge 5.7L Eagle has been around forever.
OK. Question. Has Subaru put out something that hasn't been able to do what they say it can do?
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Old 02-22-2018, 08:23 PM   #38
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OK. Question. Has Subaru put out something that hasn't been able to do what they say it can do?
Trust but verify, my friend. I'm not putting $40K on the line to find out; others will do that for us.
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Old 02-23-2018, 03:02 AM   #39
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Im curious as to if certain owners with modify to get more power or torque out of the engine just to see what it can handle after the warranty expires.
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Old 02-23-2018, 10:01 AM   #40
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So, towing 5000 pounds is what it is spec'd for..
That's what I'm saying.

Having a trans cooler isn't admitting defeat, it's smart, especially for high load applications, like towing.

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Because, I think most Ascent owners won't tow anything; not anywhere close to 5K anyways.....
Come on man, you're really not even thinking before you're writing.

Whether they do or not is beside the point. If the vehicle is rated to do something, that means that Subaru has ensured the vehicle is capable of doing exactly that. They've designed, tested, engineered, and tested some more to make sure that the vehicle can do exactly what it is rated to do.

Before they even started designing this vehicle the engineers and planners all sat around a table and said to each other and the project manager said "Okay guys, these are what our competitors can do in this space, we have to design the vehicle to these targets"

So from the ground up, this vehicle has been designed to tow 5000 lbs, it's not like they designed a big SUV, then just said "oh drat, you know, we need to tow too! what do we want to put on there for a towing capacity? 4500? No, let's go with 5000!"
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Old 02-23-2018, 10:35 AM   #41
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They've designed, tested, engineered, and tested some more to make sure that the vehicle can do exactly what it is rated to do.
Just because they've tested and engineered something doesn't mean someone shouldn't be skeptical about the longevity or durability.

When Subaru designed the FB engines, they designed and engineered the cylinders a certain way that passed their testing. It wasn't until the FB was released that the oil consumption issue came to light.
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Old 02-23-2018, 11:05 AM   #42
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Before they even started designing this vehicle the engineers and planners all sat around a table and said to each other and the project manager said "Okay guys, these are what our competitors can do in this space, we have to design the vehicle to these targets"
Then the buyers and accountants came in, said the you only have $9.32 to make it and it must be world class. Have a good weekend.

Peace,

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Old 02-23-2018, 12:15 PM   #43
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Originally Posted by samagon View Post
So from the ground up, this vehicle has been designed to tow 5000 lbs, it's not like they designed a big SUV, then just said "oh drat, you know, we need to tow too! what do we want to put on there for a towing capacity? 4500? No, let's go with 5000!"
What I'm worried about is that we're going to find out that this 5k tow rating is with an empty vehicle, just the driver, not "eight passengers, all their luggage, PLUS a 5,000 lb trailer," which is what I think most people who tow with SUVs tend to do.

Only time will tell...
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Old 02-23-2018, 12:39 PM   #44
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What I'm worried about is that we're going to find out that this 5k tow rating is with an empty vehicle, just the driver, not "eight passengers, all their luggage, PLUS a 5,000 lb trailer," which is what I think most people who tow with SUVs tend to do.

Only time will tell...
towing capacity (5klbs) and GVWR (loaded vehicle weight excluding trailer weight) are two separate things.
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Old 02-23-2018, 01:59 PM   #45
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As a FYI, I think only Toyota does their tow ratings to SAE specs for the SUV class.

Peace,

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Old 02-23-2018, 02:55 PM   #46
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Just because they've tested and engineered something doesn't mean someone shouldn't be skeptical about the longevity or durability.

When Subaru designed the FB engines, they designed and engineered the cylinders a certain way that passed their testing. It wasn't until the FB was released that the oil consumption issue came to light.
Agreed.
I'm also skeptical about the idea that an overbored FA20DIT will perform satisfactorily on 87 gas.
But, hey, Subaru engineers have tested it so it'll be fine, right?
Quote:
Originally Posted by b4wantab View Post
Then the buyers and accountants came in, said the you only have $9.32 to make it and it must be world class. Have a good weekend.

Peace,

Greg
Yep. Anyways, we'll know soon enough.
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Old 02-23-2018, 03:15 PM   #47
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As a FYI, I think only Toyota does their tow ratings to SAE specs for the SUV class.
Peace, Greg
What are the SAE specs. Could you elaborate, please?
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Old 02-23-2018, 03:45 PM   #48
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Here is a decent write-up about some of the parameters of the test. You have to be a SAE member or pay to get the whole spec sheet.

https://www.natda.org/news/know-your...rrying-limits/

Peace,

Greg
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Old 02-23-2018, 04:08 PM   #49
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Here is a decent write-up about some of the parameters of the test. You have to be a SAE member or pay to get the whole spec sheet.
https://www.natda.org/news/know-your...rrying-limits/
Peace, Greg
Thanks, that was very informative indeed. I think the Davis Dam test alone will limit many vehicles' towing capacity.

"Then a series of tests are conducted that target handling, trailer sway, braking, acceleration and component durability. The tests also include driving up the Davis Dam, a 7 percent grade that runs eastward out of Laughlin, Nev., for 11 miles to the top of the 3,500-foot summit in daytime temperatures of 100 degrees with the air conditioning going full blast. The vehicle manufacturer looks at all the data and decides what towing limits to place on that particular make/model vehicle."
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Old 02-26-2018, 12:26 AM   #50
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Because, I think most Ascent owners won't tow anything; not anywhere close to 5K anyways.
The HTCVT will never be truly taxed in these conditions and I'm sure Subaru's torque management will kick in big time to save the powertrain/drivetrain if things were to get out of hands (high tranny fluid temp, high engine oil temp, excessive knocking/pinging,...).
Basically, Ascent still has to prove that it can reliably and comfortably handle a 5K load and a set of passengers with their luggage.
With Tahoe and Durango, there's no guesswork, both Chevy's 6-speed and Dodge/ZF 8-speed are known quantities with fully disclosed torque capacity.
The new direct injected Chevy 5.3L in the Tahoe has been around for at least 4 years and the Dodge 5.7L Eagle has been around forever.
I am too lazy to look up the numbers but even a tahoe and suburban have semi limited towing abilities with a fully loaded rig. The combined trailer/truck max gvw usally only allow for like 500 to 1000 lbs at max tow weight.

It will be very interesting to see the rated max gvw and max trailer gvw. At 5000lbs towing and a full load your talking over 10k lbs with truck trailer and passenegrs. Seems like a lot on any non diesel 4 cylinder.
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