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Old 02-15-2018, 10:32 AM   #51
MtnXfreeride
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That's not fair. It's 152 now.
They don't want to steal customers from the Impreza.
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Old 02-15-2018, 10:41 AM   #52
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it should be pretty obvious that they do not intend for the USA market to get a hatch/wagon.

they debut the concept sedan in the USA.

they debut the concept hatch/wagon in Geneva.

clear message that the sedan is for USA, not the hatch.


I don't believe it's this way. We didn't get a hatch, cause they didn't have the money to make a hatch when they needed to make a wagon. We didn't get the wagon cause they didn't/don't believe they would sell well enough. I DO believe they want to get us back into 5doors. Again....much of their spending is over. Now, all that money could be focused back to the cars. Of course the hatchless era hasn't really hurt them; but, there IS negativity towards Subaru over this. Image how much more would come if they didn't give it to us with the next gen. Great sales or not, I'm sure Subaru doesn't want that. I do not believe Subaru doesn't/wouldn't care simply cause they are selling every car they make easily. They want to make what the customers(majority) want and I believe in the return of the hatch.
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Old 02-15-2018, 10:43 AM   #53
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Funny that Subaru teases the taillights on the concept knowing full well they will look nothing like that in the production model.
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Old 02-15-2018, 10:45 AM   #54
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I don't believe it's this way. We didn't get a hatch, cause they didn't have the money to make a hatch when they needed to make a wagon. We didn't get the wagon cause they didn't/don't believe they would sell well enough. I DO believe they want to get us back into 5doors. Again....much of their spending is over. Now, all that money could be focused back to the cars. Of course the hatchless era hasn't really hurt them; but, there IS negativity towards Subaru over this. Image how much more would come if they didn't give it to us with the next gen. Great sales or not, I'm sure Subaru doesn't want that. I do not believe Subaru doesn't/wouldn't care simply cause they are selling every car they make easily. They want to make what the customers(majority) want and I believe in the return of the hatch.
Have you seen anything that the rest of the general public normally wouldn't to indicate bringing the hatch back is on the agenda? I've taken the Impreza hatch as a very positive sign, just wondering if there's anything going on behind the scenes?
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Old 02-15-2018, 10:51 AM   #55
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Have you seen anything that the rest of the general public normally wouldn't to indicate bringing the hatch back is on the agenda? I've taken the Impreza hatch as a very positive sign, just wondering if there's anything going on behind the scenes?

Well, not really. BUT, they have cut back on Impreza sedan production to make more 5drs and I truly believe they wanted to give us a hatch. Just at the time, they didn't have that money to make a third body. All the headquarters are done. SIA is done. Ascent is done. Plug-in, at this point, is done. ALLLLLL that money can now go back to the cars. Unless those sneaky bastards have more up their sleeve. Of course they do; but, will it take the tons of resources of the recent projects?
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Old 02-15-2018, 11:10 AM   #56
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Originally Posted by JustyWRC View Post
I don't believe it's this way. We didn't get a hatch, cause they didn't have the money to make a hatch when they needed to make a wagon. We didn't get the wagon cause they didn't/don't believe they would sell well enough. I DO believe they want to get us back into 5doors. Again....much of their spending is over. Now, all that money could be focused back to the cars. Of course the hatchless era hasn't really hurt them; but, there IS negativity towards Subaru over this. Image how much more would come if they didn't give it to us with the next gen. Great sales or not, I'm sure Subaru doesn't want that. I do not believe Subaru doesn't/wouldn't care simply cause they are selling every car they make easily. They want to make what the customers(majority) want and I believe in the return of the hatch.
Sounds like you really want WRX hatch like I do but I am not sure Subaru has enough money to spend. Outback is huge success. Forester and crosstrek sells well too. Unfortunately WRX sales are much lower. There is no reason to spend more money to expand WRX lines instead of more focus or even make new Subaru line which boost their sales for future.

I prefer to see Impreza and crosstrek line independently with different designs. Hope new concept car is new hatch style car. Nothing to do with current car such levorg, WRX or Crosstrek.
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Old 02-15-2018, 11:29 AM   #57
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Well, not really. BUT, they have cut back on Impreza sedan production to make more 5drs and I truly believe they wanted to give us a hatch. Just at the time, they didn't have that money to make a third body. All the headquarters are done. SIA is done. Ascent is done. Plug-in, at this point, is done. ALLLLLL that money can now go back to the cars. Unless those sneaky bastards have more up their sleeve. Of course they do; but, will it take the tons of resources of the recent projects?
From what I believe and read in fora there is now a huge discussion in Japan if they going to develop Eyesight to the next stage themsefve or not. They would dump the Hitachi (expensive) cameras and use autoliv ones. Next level of Eyesight would impiment the addition of front radars. This means lots and I mean lots of new data to proces. They have a contract going with IBM for that but it will take lots of dollars and I know it's award winning.... So if they wont do it in house ( would be a shame but understandable) the engineering of the EV would be more doable
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Old 02-15-2018, 11:38 AM   #58
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Sounds like you really want WRX hatch like I do but I am not sure Subaru has enough money to spend. Outback is huge success. Forester and crosstrek sells well too. Unfortunately WRX sales are much lower. There is no reason to spend more money to expand WRX lines instead of more focus or even make new Subaru line which boost their sales for future.

I prefer to see Impreza and crosstrek line independently with different designs. Hope new concept car is new hatch style car. Nothing to do with current car such levorg, WRX or Crosstrek.
I assume that each line has it's own budget. I don't think they infringe on each other that much. I think that WRX/STI's budget could be enhanced now that it seems they've freed up some money. So, now, they can release the next gen sedan, Levorg and (re)introduce a hatch.

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Originally Posted by Goempie View Post
From what I believe and read in fora there is now a huge discussion in Japan if they going to develop Eyesight to the next stage themsefve or not. They would dump the Hitachi (expensive) cameras and use autoliv ones. Next level of Eyesight would impiment the addition of front radars. This means lots and I mean lots of new data to proces. They have a contract going with IBM for that but it will take lots of dollars and I know it's award winning.... So if they wont do it in house ( would be a shame but understandable) the engineering of the EV would be more doable

I saw that and also thought I saw something kinda debunking that. Wish I remember where I saw that.
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Old 02-15-2018, 12:09 PM   #59
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Originally Posted by JustyWRC View Post
Well, not really. BUT, they have cut back on Impreza sedan production to make more 5drs and I truly believe they wanted to give us a hatch. Just at the time, they didn't have that money to make a third body. All the headquarters are done. SIA is done. Ascent is done. Plug-in, at this point, is done. ALLLLLL that money can now go back to the cars. Unless those sneaky bastards have more up their sleeve. Of course they do; but, will it take the tons of resources of the recent projects?
Thanks. I can definitely see a corporation shifting resources to a projected financial home run and options that keep them in compliance with CAFE regulations over a separate body for a low volume model. With the Impreza hatch existing though, I'll probably hang up my blue and gold panties if there isn't a hatch in 2020.
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Old 02-15-2018, 12:16 PM   #60
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Originally Posted by samagon View Post
it should be pretty obvious that they do not intend for the USA market to get a hatch/wagon.

they debut the concept sedan in the USA.

they debut the concept hatch/wagon in Geneva.

clear message that the sedan is for USA, not the hatch.
Not sure I agree with that sentiment. IIRC, the Levorg was still offered to SOA, but they turned it down. Why would they then proceed to debut the next version in a place that rejected it's predecessor? I think it's all still on the table regardless of where it debuts.
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Old 02-15-2018, 12:18 PM   #61
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Not sure I agree with that sentiment. IIRC, the Levorg was still offered to SOA, but they turned it down. Why would they then proceed to debut the next version in a place that rejected it's predecessor? I think it's all still on the table.
Remind me. Who was this source?
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Old 02-15-2018, 12:18 PM   #62
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It isnít pointless, it serves to point out that the reason we arenít getting it isnít that it would require a large financial investment from Subaru. Itís also relevant to the next model so I can point out again that the product I want is already made and the only reason I canít give SOA more of my money is because Tom Doll refuses to bring it over. Finally, who cares if itís pointless? If I want to express my desire to buy it and frustration that I cannot Iím going to.



Agreed, function over form.
This is a good point Tarheel. Vote with your wallet. I had Subaru money, five figures, that I built up over a 5 year period, to give them, willingly, for the product I wanted. (DIT 5dr STI) They said no. Ok, Iíll settle, and take a Levorg manual, no 3 diff setup but OK, understand you canít make all the things. They said no. I was willing to settle more, and take a (excuse me while I throw up a little in my mouf) CVT 2.0L DIT Levorg, same car almost every other Subaru market in the world gets. No. Ok, then F U. You do not want me as a customer. So I have to vote with my wallet. I wanted a NEW innovative hatch AWD turbo. Someone else made it, ok bye.

I could see them flipping, and making the hatch for a gen, then the sedan for the next gen, etc. Or maybe, the plug in and EVís are more important now. Understanding Fuji, or SOA is not anything I can do. I still believe Subaru makes the safest chassis on the road. I also think this smaller Japanese company got Honda, Hyundai, and many other companies, including Ford, to make AWD variants and they deserve credit for doing so. But at the same time, they arenít real hot at making motors. Their best motor in a decade or longer is the BRZ and thatís because Toyota insisted on adding port injection which is the ideal solution for reliability and longevity. DI + Port. The FA DIT in the wrx and FXT is a decent motor however. Everyone will have to wait for 2020 MY to see their next moves.
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Old 02-15-2018, 12:20 PM   #63
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Remind me. Who was this source?
someone on here. buried deep in one of the other levorg threads. not going to dig it up. I believe said person had an off-the-cuff discussion with a Japanese engineer who said the model was pitched to SOA. Could have been someone talking out their ass, I don't know. Rumors.
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Old 02-15-2018, 01:30 PM   #64
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someone on here. buried deep in one of the other levorg threads. not going to dig it up. I believe said person had an off-the-cuff discussion with a Japanese engineer who said the model was pitched to SOA. Could have been someone talking out their ass, I don't know. Rumors.
Cool. Just wanted to make sure. Never got that from my sources. I don't discount it though.
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Old 02-15-2018, 01:58 PM   #65
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They should make a sedan version of Levorg.
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Old 02-15-2018, 04:00 PM   #66
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They should make a sedan version of Levorg.
Not before they make a Toyota version of the BRZ.
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Old 02-15-2018, 08:55 PM   #67
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I doubt I'll ever buy a sedan again.
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Old 02-15-2018, 10:50 PM   #68
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someone on here. buried deep in one of the other levorg threads. not going to dig it up. I believe said person had an off-the-cuff discussion with a Japanese engineer who said the model was pitched to SOA. Could have been someone talking out their ass, I don't know. Rumors.
Salesman I know (long time Subaru salesman and a STI nut/fanatic. He took delivery of one of the first VA’s here and immediately built out the motor. He is on here too, just doesn’t post a lot) asked one of the Subaru Japanese engineers when they were making rounds with the VA at the dealerships. They came to his dealership with the new car(s). He told me they were coming so Imasked him to ask. He got in that question as well as another that I didn’t post about. Japanese Subaru engineer/employee said they offered the Levorg to SOA and SOA said no. Immediately after he answered that second question, another employee broke them up so he couldn’t ask him anything else. I know this guy, a bs’er he is not. And then there is Tommy Balls “We think performance is more defined in the sedan segment.” Pretty crystal, at the time they wanted to shed the wagon image. How is that Legacy working out?
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Old 02-16-2018, 12:34 AM   #69
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I doubt I'll ever buy a sedan again.
I made that determination in 2007, when I joined this forum, drooling over wrx wagons. I will not sedan. I'll hang in here to see if this thing makes it to the US, otherwise, it's off to VW land.
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Old 02-16-2018, 01:07 AM   #70
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I made that determination in 2007, when I joined this forum, drooling over wrx wagons. I will not sedan. I'll hang in here to see if this thing makes it to the US, otherwise, it's off to VW land.
I guess Audi is technically VW, or do you mean something like the Golf wagon? I've been looking at BMW's lately, gotta say that after driving my 3.0R for the first time in a while I think the ride height of something like a BMW X3 would be nice as well.
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Old 02-16-2018, 08:46 AM   #71
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I made that determination in 2007, when I joined this forum, drooling over wrx wagons. I will not sedan. I'll hang in here to see if this thing makes it to the US
Right, I bought my 2012 WRX hatch after owning a 2006 wagon, and have been hanging on waiting..I would have traded mine in once and be looking for a third one in the next year if they still sold the hatch.. they are losing money from people like us who WILL NOT BUY a sedan.

I bought the extended warranty on my 2012 right at the end of 3 years because I decided to hold out instead of buying a sedan. My 7 year warranty ends soon and at that point I will buy a hatch from whoever sells me a sporty hatch.
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Old 02-16-2018, 11:39 AM   #72
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I may be dumb but i really like that what looks like lighted rear badge.... thats kind of awesome.
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Old 02-16-2018, 02:35 PM   #73
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I guess Audi is technically VW, or do you mean something like the Golf wagon? I've been looking at BMW's lately, gotta say that after driving my 3.0R for the first time in a while I think the ride height of something like a BMW X3 would be nice as well.
I don't need a wagon. Hatch is just fine. Golf R would be my pick. I may even pick one up this summer (assuming they ever get out of port) while I wait to see what Subaru does.
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Old 02-16-2018, 02:57 PM   #74
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Salesman I know (long time Subaru salesman and a STI nut/fanatic. He took delivery of one of the first VAís here and immediately built out the motor. He is on here too, just doesnít post a lot) asked one of the Subaru Japanese engineers when they were making rounds with the VA at the dealerships. They came to his dealership with the new car(s). He told me they were coming so Imasked him to ask. He got in that question as well as another that I didnít post about. Japanese Subaru engineer/employee said they offered the Levorg to SOA and SOA said no. Immediately after he answered that second question, another employee broke them up so he couldnít ask him anything else. I know this guy, a bsíer he is not. And then there is Tommy Balls ďWe think performance is more defined in the sedan segment.Ē Pretty crystal, at the time they wanted to shed the wagon image. How is that Legacy working out?

That's it. Just couldn't remember specifically. I had asked a couple times after that and couldn't even get the question acknowledged. I bet it was because of this encounter...
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Old 02-16-2018, 06:22 PM   #75
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Salesman I know (long time Subaru salesman and a STI nut/fanatic. He took delivery of one of the first VA’s here and immediately built out the motor. He is on here too, just doesn’t post a lot) asked one of the Subaru Japanese engineers when they were making rounds with the VA at the dealerships. They came to his dealership with the new car(s). He told me they were coming so Imasked him to ask. He got in that question as well as another that I didn’t post about. Japanese Subaru engineer/employee said they offered the Levorg to SOA and SOA said no. Immediately after he answered that second question, another employee broke them up so he couldn’t ask him anything else. I know this guy, a bs’er he is not. And then there is Tommy Balls “We think performance is more defined in the sedan segment.” Pretty crystal, at the time they wanted to shed the wagon image. How is that Legacy working out?
Fake news. also, Levorg 2.0T MT6 exists where?
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