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Old 07-10-2018, 08:04 AM   #51
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I would not be surprised if Subaru just dropped the STI altogether and just continued with their appliance domination tour. They could keep the WRX as their “sport” model.
At this point they’d need to do something so revolutionary to stay competitive, I’m not seeing it happen. Their commitment to the performance sector dwindled years ago and took another blow dropping the FXT. Totally could see the STI going bye bye.
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Old 07-10-2018, 08:15 AM   #52
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Brahmzy View Post
I would not be surprised if Subaru just dropped the STI altogether and just continued with their appliance domination tour. They could keep the WRX as their “sport” model.
At this point they’d need to do something so revolutionary to stay competitive, I’m not seeing it happen. Their commitment to the performance sector dwindled years ago and took another blow dropping the FXT. Totally could see the STI going bye bye.
This could well happen for the USDM - the best selling WRX to date is the most watered down version they've made to date; it's more approachable than previous models; and for some reason people prefer a sedan to a hatch/wagon.
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Old 07-10-2018, 08:55 AM   #53
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Originally Posted by NZrex View Post
This guy gets it.

Current RS had 350 hp so you know the rumours of 400 can't be too far off. Rumoured 400 hp golf R can't be far off the mark either as they will want to compete with RS after getting spanked this time around with only 300hp. New gti will be a cracker I'm sure. New focus st already seen testing. Civic type r is a beast and spanks the sti even though its "only" fwd.....

What you got Subaru? Especially for all those wanting a world class STI again? Maybe the competition has us sorted....
Too bad the USDM won't be seeing any of those Ford models
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Old 07-10-2018, 11:17 AM   #54
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Maybe the competition has us sorted....
<----

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Old 07-10-2018, 01:58 PM   #55
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Originally Posted by Brahmzy View Post
I would not be surprised if Subaru just dropped the STI altogether and just continued with their appliance domination tour. They could keep the WRX as their “sport” model.
At this point they’d need to do something so revolutionary to stay competitive, I’m not seeing it happen. Their commitment to the performance sector dwindled years ago and took another blow dropping the FXT. Totally could see the STI going bye bye.
They should just put the lift kit on the wrx and call it the wrx xv.
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Old 07-10-2018, 03:23 PM   #56
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Originally Posted by Brahmzy View Post
I would not be surprised if Subaru just dropped the STI altogether and just continued with their appliance domination tour. They could keep the WRX as their “sport” model.
At this point they’d need to do something so revolutionary to stay competitive, I’m not seeing it happen. Their commitment to the performance sector dwindled years ago and took another blow dropping the FXT. Totally could see the STI going bye bye.
Competitive on paper maybe? Yes, it isn't the fastest, or even best; but, it's certainly competitive. Performance numbers are not that far apart amongst all these competitors. But, with the statement today of their new 5 year plan, it sounds like their "commitment" is still there. For me, the only things that bugged me about this generation was no 5door and EJ. Chassis made the car handle pretty good. SGP "should" be pretty awesome if what it's done just for Impreza/Crosstrek has any metric to it. And certainly will keep it competitive.

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This could well happen for the USDM - the best selling WRX to date is the most watered down version they've made to date; it's more approachable than previous models; and for some reason people prefer a sedan to a hatch/wagon.
Watered down how? And I disagree about people liking sedan over hatch. Even before the departure of the hatch, it was clear what the preference was. Subaru just couldn't, at the time, develop a sedan, hatch, and wagon. So, their "logic" was to say that statement about performance...... And America doesn't wagon.....

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They should just put the lift kit on the wrx and call it the wrx xv.
I'm all for something like a Chevy Borrego!
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Old 07-10-2018, 04:01 PM   #57
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Watered down how? And I disagree about people liking sedan over hatch. Even before the departure of the hatch, it was clear what the preference was. Subaru just couldn't, at the time, develop a sedan, hatch, and wagon. So, their "logic" was to say that statement about performance...... And America doesn't wagon.....
on watered down WRX; here is a quick list off the top of my head:

2008 - corolla-esque styling, Subaru rectified that however
gained weight
dropped rear LSD

2015 - went to the 2.0DIT
gained more weight
got slower than the outgoing model in the name of fuel economy and emissions
styling went sedate (again) for mainstream appeal; granted not as bad as the 2008
EPS is no bueno; steering is too light and feedback is minimal to the point of being almost nonexistent
clutch pedal is corolla soft and lacks feedback
brakes are not progressive
accelerator pedal is tuned at 10%=80% like every modern economy car
much quieter cabin; not that it's horrible, it just further reduces feedback and communication from car to driver.
Seats are not bolstered well enough
plus all the nannies/drivers aids; but that's not entirely on Subaru

Subaru has done a lot to make the car a more comfortable place to be, and a better commuter car, but in this case, it took away from the drivers car & unique/quirky aspects of the WRX.

Wagon>Hatch>Sedan; I understand that Subaru was playing the USDM numbers when they made the decision to sedan only here.

There are zero new sedans on the market I'd buy right now; the last one I was interested in was the Chevy SS, but mainly for the V8, 6mt, RWD, 4dr combo.

It all comes down to personal preference & opinion; I'm sure plenty like the current sedan over the older hatch/wagon, but I need my cargo space, and rear LSD for winter shenanigans.
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Old 07-10-2018, 04:14 PM   #58
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Justy have you heard differently as far as timeline goes for the SGP WRX? There’s not gonna be that big of a stretch as far as chassis tweaking of the Impreza nor engine or trans offerings from the current WRX. The STI might have the biggest changes, but the WRX should be SGP and not much else. Nothing to warrant pushing the timeline out for further development. It’s in their best interest to get everything (perhaps not the BRZ) on SGP as quickly as possible I’d think.
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Old 07-10-2018, 04:45 PM   #59
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The point of the SGP is its versatility. According to Subaru, now they could make a WRX/STI that doesn't look so much like a Tarted Up Impreza because the underpinnings of all of the cars are shared and easier to make. Better blueprints.

I'm confident that they CAN design a WRX/STI that looks like it's part of the family, but doesn't look like an Impreza. However, I'm doubtful that Subaru will make such efforts, although I think it'd benefit them in the long run. I'd like the WRX/STI to be differentiated by more than taillights, headlights and hood scoops.
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Old 07-10-2018, 05:55 PM   #60
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sid03SVT View Post
on watered down WRX; here is a quick list off the top of my head:

2008 - corolla-esque styling, Subaru rectified that however
gained weight
dropped rear LSD

2015 - went to the 2.0DIT
gained more weight
got slower than the outgoing model in the name of fuel economy and emissions
styling went sedate (again) for mainstream appeal; granted not as bad as the 2008
EPS is no bueno; steering is too light and feedback is minimal to the point of being almost nonexistent
clutch pedal is corolla soft and lacks feedback
brakes are not progressive
accelerator pedal is tuned at 10%=80% like every modern economy car
much quieter cabin; not that it's horrible, it just further reduces feedback and communication from car to driver.
Seats are not bolstered well enough
plus all the nannies/drivers aids; but that's not entirely on Subaru

Subaru has done a lot to make the car a more comfortable place to be, and a better commuter car, but in this case, it took away from the drivers car & unique/quirky aspects of the WRX.

Wagon>Hatch>Sedan; I understand that Subaru was playing the USDM numbers when they made the decision to sedan only here.

There are zero new sedans on the market I'd buy right now; the last one I was interested in was the Chevy SS, but mainly for the V8, 6mt, RWD, 4dr combo.

It all comes down to personal preference & opinion; I'm sure plenty like the current sedan over the older hatch/wagon, but I need my cargo space, and rear LSD for winter shenanigans.
Several points there I don't disagree with. A few I don't think were significant enough considering what it did gain. And that is subjective to each owner. All the tech bits. I was "excited" to get the NAV in my '08. I like the current system and not a complete fan of the incoming CP/AA. Probably cause of it's potential freezing and it overrides all other car voice commands. I still disagree with the "Corolla" statements as it's gotten less Corolla looking than it did in the '90s. Bland, I think, would be a more accurate description, though, me personally, think the current one is the best looking yet.

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Originally Posted by 4S-TURBO View Post
Justy have you heard differently as far as timeline goes for the SGP WRX? There’s not gonna be that big of a stretch as far as chassis tweaking of the Impreza nor engine or trans offerings from the current WRX. The STI might have the biggest changes, but the WRX should be SGP and not much else. Nothing to warrant pushing the timeline out for further development. It’s in their best interest to get everything (perhaps not the BRZ) on SGP as quickly as possible I’d think.
The current chassis was significantly strengthened over the standard Impreza chassis. Will SGP be "good enough" or ARE they working to bring a "world class" car back? I think it's the latter. I have zero doubt it will be better than the current car.

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Originally Posted by chanomatik View Post
The point of the SGP is its versatility. According to Subaru, now they could make a WRX/STI that doesn't look so much like a Tarted Up Impreza because the underpinnings of all of the cars are shared and easier to make. Better blueprints.

I'm confident that they CAN design a WRX/STI that looks like it's part of the family, but doesn't look like an Impreza. However, I'm doubtful that Subaru will make such efforts, although I think it'd benefit them in the long run. I'd like the WRX/STI to be differentiated by more than taillights, headlights and hood scoops.
Considering the only body parts they shared(before SGP Impreza) were the roof panel and trunk.....

......but, with the Ascent using what I am pretty sure is the same headlight as the Outback......yeah, they are cheap-ing out and I wouldn't be surprised if more cheap-ing out is to come.
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Old 07-10-2018, 06:56 PM   #61
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Originally Posted by JustyWRC View Post
Several points there I don't disagree with. A few I don't think were significant enough considering what it did gain. And that is subjective to each owner. All the tech bits. I was "excited" to get the NAV in my '08. I like the current system and not a complete fan of the incoming CP/AA. Probably cause of it's potential freezing and it overrides all other car voice commands. I still disagree with the "Corolla" statements as it's gotten less Corolla looking than it did in the '90s. Bland, I think, would be a more accurate description, though, me personally, think the current one is the best looking yet.



The current chassis was significantly strengthened over the standard Impreza chassis. Will SGP be "good enough" or ARE they working to bring a "world class" car back? I think it's the latter. I have zero doubt it will be better than the current car.



Considering the only body parts they shared(before SGP Impreza) were the roof panel and trunk.....

......but, with the Ascent using what I am pretty sure is the same headlight as the Outback......yeah, they are cheap-ing out and I wouldn't be surprised if more cheap-ing out is to come.
But do y’think they’ll spend any extra time to further develop the chassis necessitating pushing out production? I don’t see it.
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Old 07-10-2018, 07:08 PM   #62
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Considering the only body parts they shared(before SGP Impreza) were the roof panel and trunk.....
This is so incredibly misleading, and is constantly spit out of your mouth. Can you please stop repeating the deceptive marketing tactics that Subaru uses? The WRX is built on an impreza "frame", and it always will be. They tweaked non-structural sheet metal shapes to build the WRX. The structure of the WRX is no different from the Impreza, period. Hasn't been in the past, will not be in the future. They'll continue to make tweaks to non-structural parts of the car in a feeble attempt to separate it from the economy car that it really is.

And really that's fine. Nobody is fooled. Except maybe you.
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Old 07-10-2018, 07:58 PM   #63
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Kinda harsh, but that's generally what I was getting at. The exterior sheet metal makes them look different at a glance, but overall they're just the same old thing. I don't want the next WRX/STI to be dated as soon as they arrive on lots the same as 2015+ WRX/STI.

I still like the idea of the WRX being the daily driver that's based on the Impreza while the STI is a completely new vehicle that's a coupe slightly bigger than the BRZ and showcases all of Subaru's technical know-how. It's almost reaching that point anyway as the WRX is the better daily driver and the STI is neutered when 95% of owners daily drive or baby it. Let it be a coupe focused on pure performance.

#ChannelingHip2BeSquare
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Old 07-10-2018, 09:24 PM   #64
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But but but they separated the lines!
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Old 07-10-2018, 10:04 PM   #65
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Nahh next gen subaru will make the WRX and STI cvt with no hood scoop and look exactly like an impreza. Then they will drop them all together 2 years later claiming poor sales and that performance is better defined in flashy orange plastic body trim parts inside and out segment citing sales of the forester sport.
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Old 07-10-2018, 10:07 PM   #66
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Nahh next gen subaru will make the WRX and STI cvt with no hood scoop and look exactly like an impreza. Then they will drop them all together 2 years later claiming poor sales and that performance is better defined in flashy orange plastic body trim parts inside and out segment citing sales of the forester sport.
Concepts still have scoops (I’m thinking specifically of most recent VIZIV iteration), so I think they’ll stay on WRX and Levorg. Time will tell.
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Old 07-10-2018, 10:13 PM   #67
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Kinda harsh, but that's generally what I was getting at.
Frustrating day at work...

But the main point is there. Tweaking sheet metal changes the appearance, in the same way that a body kit or fender flares does... the main car is still an impreza and always will be.

And that means that the interior will be dated. As will everything else that's shared. Subaru separating the wrx from the impreza dooms it to failure in that regard. They're not making new interior panels for the wrx. It'll get red stitching and some fake carbon fiber accents to distract people from the base level impreza interior.
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Old 07-10-2018, 10:32 PM   #68
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But do y’think they’ll spend any extra time to further develop the chassis necessitating pushing out production? I don’t see it.
"Extra time"? No. I think it's on it's own cycle now. Especially on SGP. The last one took 7 model years. I think this one will take a minimum of 6.

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This is so incredibly misleading, and is constantly spit out of your mouth. Can you please stop repeating the deceptive marketing tactics that Subaru uses? The WRX is built on an impreza "frame", and it always will be. They tweaked non-structural sheet metal shapes to build the WRX. The structure of the WRX is no different from the Impreza, period. Hasn't been in the past, will not be in the future. They'll continue to make tweaks to non-structural parts of the car in a feeble attempt to separate it from the economy car that it really is.

And really that's fine. Nobody is fooled. Except maybe you.
And when have I ever said it wasn't based on an Impreza? Umm......ALL Subaru's are based off the general same thing. NOW it's all on the same. The current WRX's chassis was made stiffer. I didn't say different. My statement you quoted was squarely aimed at saying it looked like an Impreza. WAAY to vague. I have never mistaken a current WRX for anything else than a WRX. I HAVE mistaken previous ones for Imprezas or vice versa obviously.

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Frustrating day at work...

But the main point is there. Tweaking sheet metal changes the appearance, in the same way that a body kit or fender flares does... the main car is still an impreza and always will be.

And that means that the interior will be dated. As will everything else that's shared. Subaru separating the wrx from the impreza dooms it to failure in that regard. They're not making new interior panels for the wrx. It'll get red stitching and some fake carbon fiber accents to distract people from the base level impreza interior.
Funny the complaints of the interior that was generally praised. Now, don't go taking that statement out of context because of your disdain with my postings. I am not saying it was/is considered the best. I seriously seriously doubt Subaru will EVER have NASIOCers liking it's interiors. Ascent has, by far, the nicest interior in a Subaru ever and was panned since the autoshow cars. Just sayin.

Last edited by JustyWRC; 07-10-2018 at 11:29 PM.
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Old 07-10-2018, 11:50 PM   #69
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"Extra time"? No. I think it's on it's own cycle now. Especially on SGP. The last one took 7 model years. I think this one will take a minimum of 6.
The last generation needed to split from the Preza and went through all the drama with the hatch and sedan and widebody and Nürburgwing campaign . Then there was the BRZ project. Then the Levorg thing. Plus the FA20 FA16 development. A whole lot of happenings with that release. I see a lot less of that this time around. Yeah?
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Old 07-11-2018, 12:17 AM   #70
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The last generation needed to split from the Preza and went through all the drama with the hatch and sedan and widebody and Nürburgwing campaign . Then there was the BRZ project. Then the Levorg thing. Plus the FA20 FA16 development. A whole lot of happenings with that release. I see a lot less of that this time around. Yeah?
And why I think it will take 6 instead of 7. And who knows what they are trying to do with this one? All this rumor of hybrid? Working out bugs of a new engine(2.4?) for more power? Heck, if the 2.0 is good to near 300........
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Old 07-11-2018, 01:57 AM   #71
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I thought you heard rumors of a separate 2.5 FA?

Who was it in here that was saying they couldn't see anything bigger than an FA20DIT working because of the engine's oversquare design, and that most likely the Fx24DIT would be an FB rather than an FA? I wonder if that argument still holds water with anything higher than a 2.4?

And I wonder if Subaru really has the resources to develop a unique engine for the STI? They might bite the bullet if they're confident that people will buy it. They should have every confidence seeing as how everyone is buying up the current, ancient STI.

Makes more sense to me from an economical standpoint to utilize the FA24DIT in as many models as possible, so I foresee it going in the Legacy and Outback, and hopefully the Forester again. Possibly the WRX too if the new STI is truly unique and can somehow make 400 hp confidently. Otherwise just slap the FA24DIT in the STI, aggressively tune it, and call it a day.
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Old 07-11-2018, 02:28 AM   #72
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I thought you heard rumors of a separate 2.5 FA?

Who was it in here that was saying they couldn't see anything bigger than an FA20DIT working because of the engine's oversquare design, and that most likely the Fx24DIT would be an FB rather than an FA? I wonder if that argument still holds water with anything higher than a 2.4?

And I wonder if Subaru really has the resources to develop a unique engine for the STI? They might bite the bullet if they're confident that people will buy it. They should have every confidence seeing as how everyone is buying up the current, ancient STI.

Makes more sense to me from an economical standpoint to utilize the FA24DIT in as many models as possible, so I foresee it going in the Legacy and Outback, and hopefully the Forester again. Possibly the WRX too if the new STI is truly unique and can somehow make 400 hp confidently. Otherwise just slap the FA24DIT in the STI, aggressively tune it, and call it a day.
Has the fa24dit been opened up to see if it’s open/semi-closed/closed deck? Come on Subaru over build an sti engine for once and give us forged internals. Give the enthusiasts you know who are going to buy it some relief in having a solidly built engine.

How much more per unit would it add to the cost to go forged considering that they’ll be building over 100k of them minimum over the 5-6 years they’ll be using it. Couldn’t possibly add more than $1000-1500 to the cost of building it considering the volume they’ll be building it in and potential buyers won’t even blink at that cost being added to the msrp considering that they’d have to spend 5-6k on a aftermarket built bottom end
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Old 07-11-2018, 11:16 AM   #73
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And why I think it will take 6 instead of 7. And who knows what they are trying to do with this one? All this rumor of hybrid? Working out bugs of a new engine(2.4?) for more power? Heck, if the 2.0 is good to near 300........
Maybe Subaru is modifying the EJ257 for Direct Injection j/k
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Old 07-11-2018, 11:40 AM   #74
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And when have I ever said it wasn't based on an Impreza? Umm......ALL Subaru's are based off the general same thing. NOW it's all on the same. The current WRX's chassis was made stiffer. I didn't say different. My statement you quoted was squarely aimed at saying it looked like an Impreza. WAAY to vague. I have never mistaken a current WRX for anything else than a WRX. I HAVE mistaken previous ones for Imprezas or vice versa obviously.
The current wrx is distinguished from the impreza in looks, mostly because they replaced the headlights. Yes. But to say that they only share two body parts is misleading.

This part of the car, which defines it's overall shape and constrains everything else about the car, is effectively no different from WRX to Impreza, minus a few welds to make an economy car pretend to be a performance car:


That same recipe - to use the impreza frame and tart it up, will not change on the SGP.

Quote:
Originally Posted by JustyWRC View Post
Funny the complaints of the interior that was generally praised. Now, don't go taking that statement out of context because of your disdain with my postings. I am not saying it was/is considered the best. I seriously seriously doubt Subaru will EVER have NASIOCers liking it's interiors. Ascent has, by far, the nicest interior in a Subaru ever and was panned since the autoshow cars. Just sayin.
Subaru interiors are mediocre. I don't think "praised" is the right word, except that maybe they needed a pat on the back for creating something better than the 08-14 interior...

And I don't have a "disdain" for your posts. We have different mindsets... completely different. Occasionally my frustration from other parts of my life spill into discussions here.
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Old 07-11-2018, 11:51 AM   #75
chanomatik
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Actually most reviews since 2008 have "praised" Subaru’s interiors, but I think the context has been in comparison to their previous years.

However, many on the forum have noted the interiors being a major improvement and a step above most econobox interiors from direct competitors.
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