What makes an 04 SG FXT any better with AWD on black ice than my 03 VW Golf TDI?

jj94auto · 12-25-2024, 08:42 PM

Let me start off by saying that it is no better off right?

The 04 FXT lacks the VTD and VDC that my B9 Tribeca has so I would imagine that it would be no better than the Golf given that both are on All Season tires right?

The question is for my son who has both cars and recently did a 360 on an off ramp after hitting black ice and while not hurt pretty much totaled his MK4 TDI Jetta...for all intents and purposes the same thing as the Golf.

He now has a replacement Golf.

Tire/Rim setup on both cars are similar.

245/45/17 All Seasons on the FXT
225/45/17 All Seasons on the FWD 03 Golf TDI.

The strategy is to drive the Golf as a daily until threatening weather arrives and then grab the FXT when it gets better.

Unfortunately the FXT was down a bit when he had his incident.

I am starting to believe that the FXT would not be much better in the same circumstances given that it is simply AWD and MPT equipped.

I know that he needs to exercise more due care in inclement weather but just looking for a little bit of a hedge on the FXT if it should fair any better with the given tire choice.

Would appreciate technical thoughts on this matter.

Thanks.

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Charlie-III · 12-25-2024, 09:59 PM

On ice, and most any driving, it ends with how much traction.
You say "all seasons", same brand, same model? Are either listed as M&S? What are the ratings on the sidewall?
I can think of quite a few more minor things that could help/hurt on ice.

jj94auto · 12-25-2024, 11:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Charlie-III

On ice, and most any driving, it ends with how much traction.
You say "all seasons", same brand, same model? Are either listed as M&S? What are the ratings on the sidewall?
I can think of quite a few more minor things that could help/hurt on ice.

Thanks much. Absolutely different brands. Will get back on those shortly.

Appreciated.

benflynn · 02-05-2025, 10:00 PM

Fxt is longer, slower to swapp ends, nothing hooks on ice I thought from Alabama

Arnie · 02-14-2025, 04:27 AM

Given proper driving technique and driving decisions, tires will always be your limiting factor.

Tire Rack did some tests comparing summer, all-season and winter tires. Worth checking out.

https://www.tirerack.com/tires/tests...xkut3eRNDlBsAt

Also a test of All season vs Winter tires:
https://www.tirerack.com/tires/tests...YG5ewoIL807vEW

A good drivetrain comparison for track duty with Randy Pobst

- YouTube

REX_WGN · 02-14-2025, 03:37 PM

Really nothing. Maybe an edge for safety due to the extra ride height under the same situation?

I would guess that he was off the gas pedal since it's an off ramp. No system or AWD will kick in since he's off the gas. Most would just hit the brakes in a situation like that vs trying to control the spin out with the gas.

cmiovino · 02-16-2025, 10:14 PM

Black ice is black ice.

Black, meaning you can't really see it, so you're probably going 40-50mph on the off ramp and boom, you're off. Or possibly if you're older and a more experienced driver, you're slowed down to 25-30mph and taking it really cautious and at that speed, you still might be off if you hit ice with all seasons.

Your best bet in terms of mechanical advantage is the car with the best tires for that situation. The bad thing here is we're talking about ice, so that's really studded tires... which are actually going to give you less grip on pavement and for everyday driving. It's unlikely you're going to just daily studded snow tires. Second best is snow/winter tires and not the all seasons, but still on ice, you're going to have a struggle and a bad time if you're over driving or don't see the ice.

12-25-2024, 08:42 PM	#1
jj94auto Scooby Newbie Member#: 203929 Join Date: Feb 2009	What makes an 04 SG FXT any better with AWD on black ice than my 03 VW Golf TDI? Let me start off by saying that it is no better off right? The 04 FXT lacks the VTD and VDC that my B9 Tribeca has so I would imagine that it would be no better than the Golf given that both are on All Season tires right? The question is for my son who has both cars and recently did a 360 on an off ramp after hitting black ice and while not hurt pretty much totaled his MK4 TDI Jetta...for all intents and purposes the same thing as the Golf. He now has a replacement Golf. Tire/Rim setup on both cars are similar. 245/45/17 All Seasons on the FXT 225/45/17 All Seasons on the FWD 03 Golf TDI. The strategy is to drive the Golf as a daily until threatening weather arrives and then grab the FXT when it gets better. Unfortunately the FXT was down a bit when he had his incident. I am starting to believe that the FXT would not be much better in the same circumstances given that it is simply AWD and MPT equipped. I know that he needs to exercise more due care in inclement weather but just looking for a little bit of a hedge on the FXT if it should fair any better with the given tire choice. Would appreciate technical thoughts on this matter. Thanks. * Registered users of the site do not see these ads.

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12-25-2024, 09:59 PM	#2
Charlie-III Scooby Guru Member#: 30669 Join Date: Dec 2002 Chapter/Region: Tri-State Location: USA, North NJ, 07456 Vehicle: 1998 Legacy 2.5GT Silver Sleeper BK, 5MT	On ice, and most any driving, it ends with how much traction. You say "all seasons", same brand, same model? Are either listed as M&S? What are the ratings on the sidewall? I can think of quite a few more minor things that could help/hurt on ice.

02-05-2025, 10:00 PM	#4
benflynn Scooby Specialist Member#: 515308 Join Date: Jun 2020	Fxt is longer, slower to swapp ends, nothing hooks on ice I thought from Alabama

02-14-2025, 03:37 PM	#6
REX_WGN Scooby Guru Member#: 107618 Join Date: Feb 2006 Chapter/Region: Tri-State Location: NY Vehicle: 06 GG WRX / 09 FXT @florencedestinedfxt	Really nothing. Maybe an edge for safety due to the extra ride height under the same situation? I would guess that he was off the gas pedal since it's an off ramp. No system or AWD will kick in since he's off the gas. Most would just hit the brakes in a situation like that vs trying to control the spin out with the gas.

02-16-2025, 10:14 PM	#7
cmiovino Scooby Guru Member#: 134005 Join Date: Dec 2006 Chapter/Region: MAIC Location: Pittsburgh, PA Vehicle: 2004 WRX Premium PSM	Black ice is black ice. Black, meaning you can't really see it, so you're probably going 40-50mph on the off ramp and boom, you're off. Or possibly if you're older and a more experienced driver, you're slowed down to 25-30mph and taking it really cautious and at that speed, you still might be off if you hit ice with all seasons. Your best bet in terms of mechanical advantage is the car with the best tires for that situation. The bad thing here is we're talking about ice, so that's really studded tires... which are actually going to give you less grip on pavement and for everyday driving. It's unlikely you're going to just daily studded snow tires. Second best is snow/winter tires and not the all seasons, but still on ice, you're going to have a struggle and a bad time if you're over driving or don't see the ice.