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Brakes & Suspension Forum sponsored by The Tire Rack |
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12-21-2007, 01:49 AM | #601 | |
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Vehicle:2002 02 WRX Wagon 11 VW Jetta TDI 6Speed |
Quote:
It looks like on another thread I'll be makeing the nuts to fit the cusco camber plates with d specs for a guy in cali. Brian
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12-26-2007, 01:04 AM | #602 |
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I'm finally making a little progress. I took the advantage of having the day off to hack up my donor struts that I'm prepping for the Konis. I haven't seen any pics of the left-overs from the stock struts so I thought I'd post them up.
Luckily I didn't have any issues with measuring and cutting. I'll suspect that I'll be doing the install this weekend so I'll make sure to take lots of pic with measurements (I'm doing RCE wagon springs with GroupN tops on all 4 corners). By the way, the OEM strut oil is nauseating... |
12-29-2007, 10:11 PM | #603 |
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I finally took the initiative to install the new spring/strut combo yesterday. I took some pics and measurements…
The only mods I have on the car at this moment, other than the springs/struts, are a Whiteline rear strutbar and a FHI 20mm rear swaybar. I am also running some Pirelli Pzero Nero M+S tires on my stock wheels (235-45-17). Perhaps this will put my driving impressions in context. My initial and overall reaction is extremely positive. I am very satisfied with the look of the drop and the better handling characteristics. High speed turns are extremely controlled where the car is very and stable. During transitions, the car has lost a lot of that floaty feel. The car is so much easier to rotate, feels very agile, and is much more predictable. Keep in mind I haven’t done any adjusting of the struts yet. I’m hoping to learn which preference suits my needs best in the next week or two. There are some issues regarding comfort, that I find personally negligible when compared to the added benefit of better handling, I feel should be addressed before anyone considers purchasing this setup. My initial goal was to choose a very fun setup, that wasn’t as harsh as my old Cusco Zero2 or Tanabe SS-Pro coilovers used on my old bugeye wagon, that wouldn’t sacrifice daily driving comfort. I’ll just bluntly say that the post compression rebound is a bit jarring at slow speeds over road imperfections (dips, speed bumps, potholes). It’s funny because I find myself slowing down dramatically when nearing these obstacles now. I’m hoping that increasing the dampening will help alleviate the harsh rebound caused by the springs in these slow conditions (5-15mph). To sum everything up, I wanted a set-it-and-forget-it package with good handling and half decent comfort. The RCE springs have exceeded my expectations because I feel they are very comfortable on the road conditions I use them in. They handle extremely well and make the car a blast to drive. I have no qualms with slowing down, or avoiding obstacles, for the sake having a more comfortable ride around town. I am very happy with these parts. Moving forward, I have decided that my alignment goal is negative 2 degrees up front and negative 1 degree in the rear, 0 toe all around. I think this will help me have a little fun while preserving tire life. I recently purchased two sets of the Ingall’s camber bolts to help with this goal. Does anyone know if these specs are easily attainable with my setup? If not, I guess I’ll just install my sedan control arms. Here are a couple of links for those who want a more detailed pic of what the drop looks like. Sorry, my camera skills aren't that good... |
12-29-2007, 10:36 PM | #604 |
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thanks for taking the time to post pics AND measurements
your on Grp N tops front and rear? |
12-29-2007, 10:42 PM | #605 |
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sixtoo...great post and pictures.
I am assembling my Koni Inserts and RCE Springs tomorrow, I have Group-N's for the rear and RCE Lowering plates for the front. I plan to install them on Saturday and will get pictures and measurements at that time and post up as well. Thanks again sixtoo! -Orion- |
12-29-2007, 10:45 PM | #606 |
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Thankyou for the great write up. I will be doing the same thing on my 06 wagon this winter.Do you have any trouble with the 235 tires? Your wagon looks 'REAL NICE'.
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12-29-2007, 11:57 PM | #607 |
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Thanks for the informative post, sixtoo. Wagon looks fantastic. What were your dampers set to? And what is the tire size in the pics?
Interesting.. on your stockers, front passenger-to-driver delta was +0.25", and the rear passenger-to-driver delta was -0.25". While the gap for the RCE's remained even side to side . General question regarding Koni inserts... would the directions for cutting up stock donors be the same, whether you used '04+ vs. '03- donors? I'm getting '04+ konis with '02 donors and just wanted to make sure the measurements for where you make the cuts are the same regardless of which donors are used. |
12-30-2007, 11:47 AM | #608 |
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^ should be exactly the same- there is a minor difference in the spring perch itself on the front struts but has no impact on measurements/cutting
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12-30-2007, 12:47 PM | #609 | |||
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Quote:
Yup, I've got Grp N tophats on the front and rears. Do you think I'll be able to get -2* of camber up front since my setup is like stock? I'm a little too lazy to do the control arm swap. Quote:
Quote:
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12-30-2007, 01:16 PM | #610 |
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great- just wanted to be sure you weren't running camber plates in front that might skew the ride heights one way or another depending on which ones
you won't get -2.0 w/o "help"- camber bolt in the lower hole or minor slotting of the strut hole (or sedan arms or camber plates) about -1.3 is the best to hope for w/ the oe eccentric bolt alone |
12-30-2007, 01:46 PM | #611 | |
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Here's a shot of what 235's on 7" wheels looks like. I'm at 34psi up front and 32psi in the rear. Keep in mind that these are cold readings I took this morning.
For safety purposes, it's advised to run this size of a tire on a wheel no smaller than 7.5" wide. Quote:
I took the liberty of scanning the directions so you could take a look. Since you're getting '04+ inserts, the directions will tell you to remove 40mm from the top of your donor struts (see the pic I have above of the stock cartridges in the bucket). Sorry, I'm unsure if the 02/03 housing will be different but my best guess is that you'll have to cut off the same amount. All you really need to do is to make sure the protruding tabs on the Koni insert wedge themselves inside your donor struts and they'll be nice and secure. Enjoy: Assembly Instructions Adjustment Directions |
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12-30-2007, 01:57 PM | #612 | |
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12-30-2007, 02:06 PM | #613 |
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I had some one plug in the numbers (calculated actual suspension frequencies) combined w/ the Koni dyno graphs and at 65% critical damped this came out to very close to full soft front/rear- I'd recommend this as a start. I even ran this at a couple of autox events, with exception of quick transition stuff- slaloms and the like, it felt very good. I've since gone to slightly firmer settings for autox, but run full soft daily driving
I think there are a lots of folks running much firmer damping than needed |
12-30-2007, 07:15 PM | #614 | ||
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12-30-2007, 07:36 PM | #615 |
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rebound- I was a little surprised by this as well, because I know guys who run Prodrives (which are pretty softish in the WRX offering) w/ the Koni's and no complaints at all
clearly though they are capable of running pretty damn firm rates |
12-31-2007, 08:30 AM | #616 |
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Looks nice. How much do you cut off the top of the stock struts?
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12-31-2007, 10:04 AM | #617 | |
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L1 values = protruding tabs to top length on Koni insert L2 values = distance you cut off the OEM strut from the top It's kind of hard to see the table, so I'll just post the values: L1____L2 36mm 30mm 46mm 40mm 56mm 50mm 66mm 60mm |
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12-31-2007, 10:14 AM | #618 | |
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Not sure what critical dampening is yet, but you're suggesting starting off at full soft all around? I took the car out last night for a spin around a local windy road area...maybe a good 20 mile stretch where I uaually average speeds of 35-40 when coasting through on my stock setup. Last night, I did a full half turn up front and a full turn in the rear (upped the dampening) and I was coasting with the greatest of ease around 45-50mph. It was almost nerve racking to see how much extra speed I could carry through the turns. It was getting late so I didn't have time for a return pass. It was just a smooth and effortless drive, effortless in regards to how little steering input was needed to make the car rotate. I did notice a touch of oversteer on decreasing angle radius turns. I'm actually considering keeping my 20mm swaybars on the car for now since I'm pretty satisfied with the characteristics. |
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12-31-2007, 10:22 AM | #619 |
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I'd start at full soft- front/rear. Definitely play w/ the rebound settings some though= part of the fun of having adj dampers You can influence to some degree overall handling w/ rebound damping by varying the amount front to rear.
The RCE springs are purposely built w/ rear spring rates approaching the fronts, this in itself dials out some understeer |
12-31-2007, 10:38 AM | #620 |
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sixtoo, thanks for the write up and all the information you provided. It is very helpful as I consider the RCE wagon springs.
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12-31-2007, 12:14 PM | #621 |
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- Andrew |
12-31-2007, 12:35 PM | #622 |
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12-31-2007, 01:30 PM | #623 |
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I had a chance to do some side-by-side comparisons with a car on the RCE Wagon Springs yesterday.
On the same size tires, my car (RCE Regular Guy & RCE Lowering Plates) was a little lower than his (RCE Wagon Springs & stop top hats). Rear was maybe 1/4" less gap from tire to fender, front was about 5/8" less gap (one additonal finger). |
12-31-2007, 02:33 PM | #624 |
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Loving that stance on that 06 wagon.
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01-06-2008, 07:30 PM | #625 |
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Hey Fellas!!!
I got my set-up on today! RCE Wagon Springs RCE Lowering Front Plates Group-N Rear Top Hats Koni Inserts set to full soft Initial Impressions: Stiff, but VERY liveable on full soft. The only bumps I noticed a stiffer ride on are "abrupt" bumps (railroad crossings, potholes, things of that nature) for my commute to work it feels very compliant to the stock ride, soaks up some of the long/swoopy bumps VERY well. I found that I was going through turns faster and with more confidence than with the stock set-up. It's in no way a complete pavement pounder with snow tires and no alignment, but it is free of it's "elephant on a stilts" feel that it came with from the factory. I also packed 3 other people along with myself into it. me = 175lbs, dave in passenger seat = 225lbs?, Mikie rear driver's side = 210lbs, Ryan rear passenger's side = 150lbs. So it was fairly balanced. Absolutely NO Rubbing at all... Overall: Very pleased with the set-up at this point. Cannot wait to mate them up with some good sway's. Next question: I am going to be going in for alignment hopefully by Tuesday. I have been looking around, as a daily driver with 1-10 auto-x's per year, it looks as though -2 camber in the front looks good with minimal tire wear, 0 toe-in all around looks good. But I haven't seen many figures for rear camber settings? Anyone have any suggestions? I will take pictures after my alignment. I did note that on the driver's side the rear was 13.5" and the front was about 13 9/16 or 13 5/8" it was like right in between. Overall almost the perfect stance in my eyes. Thanks guys! Pics forthcoming with measurements, both now and stock (if I can find my stock ones? -Orion- |
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