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Old 09-11-2022, 01:47 PM   #926
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With your comparison of the GR to a standard Corolla, I guess we can say the STI has the same quality as base Impreza.
Agreed. IMO, there is a price point where such cars come very close to a RWD dedicated platform and it becomes a harder decision. Also, IMO the ADMs on this will considerably higher than on let say the GR86 or Supra.
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Old 09-11-2022, 10:20 PM   #927
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Agreed. IMO, there is a price point where such cars come very close to a RWD dedicated platform and it becomes a harder decision. Also, IMO the ADMs on this will considerably higher than on let say the GR86 or Supra.
People are reporting between $5k-$10k on the GRC. So letís call it $50k for a circuit. People on the Supra forum are reporting $5k-$15k ADM. So no, the ADM is not higher. And again, I posted a spreadsheet link of non adm dealers.

And since when did the 86 come into play? That vehicle targets a completely different income buyer.

Stop moving your goal post
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Old 09-12-2022, 10:46 AM   #928
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Damn, 50k.. You're moving into 400hp RS3 territory. But also too STI's were like 47k so it makes sense.
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Old 09-12-2022, 10:50 AM   #929
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Originally Posted by godfather2112 View Post
People are reporting between $5k-$10k on the GRC. So let's call it $50k for a circuit. People on the Supra forum are reporting $5k-$15k ADM. So no, the ADM is not higher. And again, I posted a spreadsheet link of non adm dealers.

And since when did the 86 come into play? That vehicle targets a completely different income buyer.

Stop moving your goal post
86 had pretty steep ADM's for the first 6-9 months on the market unless you had a MSRP only dealer. And for many dealers they are still charging ADM right now.

The Supra 6MT will have steep ADM's for the first 6-9 months unless you have a MSRP only dealer. And for many dealers they are still charging ADM right now.

The GR Corolla will have steep ADM's for the first 6-9 months unless you have a MSRP only dealer.

Can mentally challenged folks see a pattern here? I will be paying MSRP only at a MSRP only dealer.



ADM is a common occurrence on any model of car, SUV, CUV, or truck right now until chip supplies and vehicle supplies normalize. Most new vehicles require work on the consumer's part to avoid paying ADM.
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Old 09-12-2022, 12:12 PM   #930
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Originally Posted by godfather2112 View Post
Yeah, you completely missed my post. The Supra will have ADM as well so there will likely be a $10k difference between the vehicles if not more.



For those interested in which dealers are charging msrp versus taking in ADM, this google doc continues to be updated (shows dealer and if they have adm or msrp)

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets...X97-tg/pubhtml
Thanks for posting a link to that spreadsheet.
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Old 09-13-2022, 11:37 AM   #931
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Embargo lifts tomorrow at 7am. Expect like 20 YT reviews.
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Old 09-13-2022, 08:06 PM   #932
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Embargo lifts tomorrow at 7am. Expect like 20 YT reviews.
Thanks, canít wait for the Throttle House review.
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Old 09-13-2022, 08:51 PM   #933
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Thanks, canít wait for the Throttle House review.
Yeah if thatís them two Canadian dudes, they didnít even go to the track in Utah. They got one for days to a week or something so got way more access and drive time with no supervision. Should be a got damn blitz of reviews tomorrow from all the typical YT trash. I like them Canadian dudes though, and Everyday Driver, and Geese.
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Old 09-14-2022, 07:43 AM   #934
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Embargo lifts tomorrow at 7am. Expect like 20 YT reviews.
As the prophet foretold...

Goose

Donut

Undoubtedly, many more to come
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Old 09-14-2022, 07:57 AM   #935
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Yeah if thatís them two Canadian dudes, they didnít even go to the track in Utah. They got one for days to a week or something so got way more access and drive time with no supervision. Should be a got damn blitz of reviews tomorrow from all the typical YT trash. I like them Canadian dudes though, and Everyday Driver, and Geese.
Whoohoo, it's up!

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Old 09-14-2022, 09:35 AM   #936
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Nolan with Donut Media kind of confirmed my suspicions with his final comments. The ME has the extra torque and revised gear ratios, plus stickier tires, which aid in the driver engagement. Obviously being a hundred pounds lighter helps too. But, regardless, my issue with the ME when it was first announced was the fact that Toyota withheld torque and gear tuning from the GRC Core and CE.

Not that anyone will care if they can get their hands on any one of these at all.

Also, no special rear wing spoiler for the Circuit Edition?

Last edited by chanomatik; 09-14-2022 at 09:41 AM.
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Old 09-14-2022, 09:35 AM   #937
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MT:
https://www.motortrend.com/reviews/2...-drive-review/

Apparently, they think it has a VC center. I don't think so. Who proof reads these things!?
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Old 09-14-2022, 10:03 AM   #938
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Nope, we got this greedy dealer model that is more important than customers! And we have this allocation system setup like this for whom again? Who does this serve?
but the dealer network, when fighting the Tesla direct sales model, said they were in place for consumer protection, were they lying the whole time???!!?!!!



anyway, the ME edition isn't just weight savings and more cosmetic, they actually do have more torque in that one too, via higher boost.

as far as myself and getting one, color is not important, I'd prefer white, then red, but black, if that comes across my desk, won't be passed. performance and tech are necessary, winter is a whatever, if it's there nice, if not, I live in Houston, the heated seats in my current car are used maybe 4x a year.

I'm not willing to pay ADM, but I know every car delivered will have 'port installed options', so if they proclaim they are MSRP only, then it's really not, and if they aren't charging a $9000 paint protection, then maybe it's reasonable?

Last edited by samagon; 09-14-2022 at 10:08 AM.
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Old 09-14-2022, 10:14 AM   #939
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but the dealer network, when fighting the Tesla direct sales model, said they were in place for consumer protection, were they lying the whole time???!!?!!!



anyway, the ME edition isn't just weight savings and more cosmetic, they actually do have more torque in that one too, via higher boost.

as far as myself and getting one, color is not important, I'd prefer white, then red, but black, if that comes across my desk, won't be passed. performance and tech are necessary, winter is a whatever, if it's there nice, if not, I live in Houston, the heated seats in my current car are used maybe 4x a year.

I'm not willing to pay ADM, but I know every car delivered will have 'port installed options', so if they proclaim they are MSRP only, then it's really not, and if they aren't charging a $9000 paint protection, then maybe it's reasonable?
This right here really burns my balls. I had to look through 5 RAM dealers before I could find one that would not add on this BS.

Paint protection = lie or just a wax they put on
LOJACK = hate this one, lie, its all GPS enabled now, not even something they install like it use to be. So lie
Fabric protection = Lie. AT most a can of scotch guard
window tint = this was my favorite. 1900 dollars some dealers wanted to charge for for my truck. Ram Tints the rear and back windows on All trucks from the factory. So 2 grand to tint two windows. You think that is not extortion.

Watch out my fellow car buying comrades.
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Old 09-14-2022, 10:32 AM   #940
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but the dealer network, when fighting the Tesla direct sales model, said they were in place for consumer protection, were they lying the whole time???!!?!!!



anyway, the ME edition isn't just weight savings and more cosmetic, they actually do have more torque in that one too, via higher boost.

as far as myself and getting one, color is not important, I'd prefer white, then red, but black, if that comes across my desk, won't be passed. performance and tech are necessary, winter is a whatever, if it's there nice, if not, I live in Houston, the heated seats in my current car are used maybe 4x a year.

I'm not willing to pay ADM, but I know every car delivered will have 'port installed options', so if they proclaim they are MSRP only, then it's really not, and if they aren't charging a $9000 paint protection, then maybe it's reasonable?
Yeah, I doubt anyone is going to get one anywhere even close to the MSRP anytime soon.
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Old 09-14-2022, 10:43 AM   #941
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I'm not willing to pay ADM, but I know every car delivered will have 'port installed options', so if they proclaim they are MSRP only, then it's really not, and if they aren't charging a $9000 paint protection, then maybe it's reasonable?
Passing local Toyo dealer last night, caught a GR86 in the middle of a row of sedans, pulled in to take a look. Not outrageous, but did have $6k of "options" added on. That pavement color looks good in person.
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Old 09-14-2022, 10:59 AM   #942
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This right here really burns my balls. I had to look through 5 RAM dealers before I could find one that would not add on this BS.

Paint protection = lie or just a wax they put on
LOJACK = hate this one, lie, its all GPS enabled now, not even something they install like it use to be. So lie
Fabric protection = Lie. AT most a can of scotch guard
window tint = this was my favorite. 1900 dollars some dealers wanted to charge for for my truck. Ram Tints the rear and back windows on All trucks from the factory. So 2 grand to tint two windows. You think that is not extortion.

Watch out my fellow car buying comrades.
yeah, I'm talking about 'port installed' accessories that they drop in every vehicle. floor mats, cargo tray, door sill protectors, etc. I'll also pay a reasonable price for dealer installed tint. I think on my wife's OBW they charged us a few hundred above what I'd pay at Joe's tint, but I also didn't have to go waste the better part of a Saturday at Joe's, so yeah, that's very worth the $250 premium I paid, even if I were to figure out what the actual amortized cost is when calculated into the term of the loan.

Last edited by samagon; 09-14-2022 at 11:06 AM.
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Old 09-14-2022, 11:22 AM   #943
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All reviews I've watched so far have mentioned how it has FWD handling characteristics (understeer and lift-off oversteer) regardless of toque split; I'm sure a big bar in the rear would help with turn in, but I just want something that I don't have to modify out of the box to enjoy; maybe I'm just not meant to have an AWD car.
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Old 09-14-2022, 11:28 AM   #944
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All reviews I've watched so far have mentioned how it has FWD handling characteristics (understeer and lift-off oversteer) regardless of toque split; I'm sure a big bar in the rear would help with turn in, but I just want something that I don't have to modify out of the box to enjoy; maybe I'm just not meant to have an AWD car.
look at the body roll on the track, this car is begging for bigger sway bars..
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Old 09-14-2022, 11:31 AM   #945
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$51k for the limited edition model. They're channeling their inner Mini GP.

Glad Toyota is making a hot hatch also glad I no longer jones for one. I'd hate to really want one in the market we are in.

I'd be more inclined to drop $20k+ on a Ducati these days then $45k on 25lb, boost 3 cylinder hot hatch.
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Old 09-14-2022, 12:33 PM   #946
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Pretty much all cars are designed to understeer. You've gotta dial in neutral or oversteer on your own.
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Old 09-14-2022, 12:48 PM   #947
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sid03SVT View Post
All reviews I've watched so far have mentioned how it has FWD handling characteristics (understeer and lift-off oversteer) regardless of toque split; I'm sure a big bar in the rear would help with turn in, but I just want something that I don't have to modify out of the box to enjoy; maybe I'm just not meant to have an AWD car.
Thatís not going to happen. Cars today are meant for Chad and Karen, even performance variants. Theyíll make the car in R&D, then tone it down for that ďmassĒ appeal to grab some of those customers. Notice how the GRC, in these reviews (havenít watched them all yet), it doesnít do what my RS would do with 70% to the rears and power oversteer. That is due to ďsafetyĒ for Chad.

So I look at these as base platforms. Youíre gonna modify. Iím watching reviews now, staving off a stack of work, at work. What Iím gathering, especially watching Throttle Houseís reviewÖ.base performance, and I donít mean a base GRC with no diffs, just stock performance with the LSDís, is pretty solid. The rest will be solved with aftermarket. I knew this 6 months ago though. Mine is going to get modified, any performance car I buy. There isnít a car in existence, or that I have ever owned, where I buy it and I say ďnailed itĒ. There is always something to modify to fix, get it to where I like, etc. This is the tunerís class. You want a cost effective performance platform where you can drive it out of the box, get the 86. You want AWD performance, you are gonna modify. Golf R, WRX, GRC, doesnít matter which, you will modify.

As far as tack ons. My MSRP only dealer agreed to not add anything to the car. Itís on my deposit slip. No bs chintz PPF, no tint, no wheel locks, no drilling the front plate. I let them know any and all, deal breaker. You just have to find the right dealer. And/or wait, which has been the case for many years with attainable or affordable (relative) to performance variants. My RS was the same. ADM, adding ****, blah blah. I sat it out 18 months and bought at invoice with no add ons. Today is different. Car market has changed dramatically but chip shortages will alleviate end of 2023. So today waiting will mean MSRP only and getting the add ons removed, well thatís a problem for all models, not just the GRC. Toyota and Honda in my state tack on bs, on every model they sell. Toyota itís tint, wheel locks, drilling the front plate, and some add their crap and minimal PPF. Honda itís the same but add lo jack, and pinstripes. My MY2019 Ridgeline had pinstripes, tint, wheel locks, and some brand of lo jack. I negotiated all that off even though it was all already installed. I just didnít pay for it and had to pay to remove the bs pinstripes they put on everything.

But if you donít want to mod, probably not the car for you. That GM sedan may be your jam but then there is those seats youíd have to modify. Car market is what it is. I want the GRY or a 3 door turbo AWD hatch with full diffs, sequential trans, 400 wheel horsepower. Something most would hate for a DD because Iím not interested in any of these cars to drive to work or use for mundane crap. I want a dedicated cornering machine that will work in all weather conditions and handle well at the limit. Nobody makes that and they never will. Whole car market is too mainstream and hardcore performance cars are 60-70k, 100k, etc.
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Old 09-14-2022, 12:50 PM   #948
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Old 09-14-2022, 12:50 PM   #949
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dp...
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Old 09-14-2022, 01:56 PM   #950
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Chip shortage is more or less not an issue anymore. The issue is simply producing the vehicles. When you go from a stop to massive demand, it takes years to catch up. Partner that with a recession looming and trying to forecast demand, you'll likely continue to see lower output. It's going to take another year or two for output manufacturing capacity tk catch-up and or exceed demand. Interest rates and recession could help reduce demand and catching back up.
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