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Old 12-01-2022, 11:06 PM   #1351
godfather2112
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Video cards (until recently). But i agree with you. Does any other country sell cars above MSRP? Here in Taiwan some cars are like a year wait, but are sold at MSRP.
And whatís the import tax thatís slapped on it? When you look at the cost of what a vehicle cost in the US even with ADM versus what it costs in other countries after the duty / import tax, itís still relatively cheaper in the United States. I think a base model ranger starts $6k higher in Australia than the US. Similar to other vehicles and other countries unless itís vehicle specific to that country and manufactured there.
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Old 12-02-2022, 12:20 AM   #1352
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And whatís the import tax thatís slapped on it? When you look at the cost of what a vehicle cost in the US even with ADM versus what it costs in other countries after the duty / import tax, itís still relatively cheaper in the United States. I think a base model ranger starts $6k higher in Australia than the US. Similar to other vehicles and other countries unless itís vehicle specific to that country and manufactured there.
Yeah, import taxes are like 30% I'd guess. Cars made in Taiwan like my Focus ST-Line are exempt.

But that's really an unrelated discussion to ADM.
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Old 12-02-2022, 04:48 AM   #1353
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Video cards (until recently). But i agree with you. Does any other country sell cars above MSRP? Here in Taiwan some cars are like a year wait, but are sold at MSRP.
Video cards, consoles, sneakers, backpacks, watches, quite a long list of *** that sells above manufacturer suggested retail pricing. Oh the dealers, well I will tell you what, if people would refuse ADM it wouldn't exist and the dealers would be forced to sell at MSRP.

Oh and I saw the phone example, How many times has their been an iPhone release, demand exceeded supply, and the only way to get one NOW (must have it even though their existing phone works just fine, eerily similar to vehicles, you don't need a NEW car, you WANT a new car) was to pay above MSRP to get it right now? I can't count.

Silly, silly argument and not hearing it, just as I said before. We don't always have to agree. Seen the price of ammo over the past 3 years? All dealers selling at double, triple, quadruple the price. But cars are the only thing that suffer through this right? What a joke. Seen building materials pricing over the last few years? Double, triple. This goes well past vehicles dude. You either see the forest for the trees or you don't.
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Old 12-02-2022, 05:52 AM   #1354
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Video cards, consoles, sneakers, backpacks, watches, quite a long list of *** that sells above manufacturer suggested retail pricing. Oh the dealers, well I will tell you what, if people would refuse ADM it wouldn't exist and the dealers would be forced to sell at MSRP.

Oh and I saw the phone example, How many times has their been an iPhone release, demand exceeded supply, and the only way to get one NOW (must have it even though their existing phone works just fine, eerily similar to vehicles, you don't need a NEW car, you WANT a new car) was to pay above MSRP to get it right now? I can't count.

Silly, silly argument and not hearing it, just as I said before. We don't always have to agree. Seen the price of ammo over the past 3 years? All dealers selling at double, triple, quadruple the price. But cars are the only thing that suffer through this right? What a joke. Seen building materials pricing over the last few years? Double, triple. This goes well past vehicles dude. You either see the forest for the trees or you don't.
If you read my posts youíll see Iíve been saying the same thing for several years.

Problem is the government is distorting both supply and demand. And if they donít stop youíll never get that GRC anywhere near MSRP, just like the middle class has been priced out of the housing market.
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Old 12-02-2022, 09:48 AM   #1355
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Could you imagine if we made a law that forced concert tickets to be sold by scalpers? Because that's basically what we have going right now... My apologies to any car salesman for drawing the analogy to ticket scalpers, but really, that's what it's turning into.
well, that analogy forgets that they offer other things, like a service department to deny warranty claims, etc.

but yeah.
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Old 12-02-2022, 01:41 PM   #1356
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If you read my posts youíll see Iíve been saying the same thing for several years.

Problem is the government is distorting both supply and demand. And if they donít stop youíll never get that GRC anywhere near MSRP, just like the middle class has been priced out of the housing market.
That reply was more meant for someone else. I was agreeing with you on video cards, and think those cards are just the tip of the iceberg. I havenít been to the gun range in 3 years even though I maintain my membership. When each dealer is selling a case of ammo at 4X the price I have not wanted to burn through my stash at all. Prices, just like got damn vehicles, are finally starting to tumble. I can, again like a brand new vehicle, almost begin buying cases again so I can go back to normal by going to my membership gun range 1-2 times a month.

And hopefully sometime in 2023 I can finally finish remodeling my house which Iíve been waiting to do for over 2 years now. Materials have been selling at double or more their normal pricing or MSRP. Much like wanting to buy a video card (I donít) or anything else during this mess, Iíve just sat out and stacked whatever money I could away. Waiting, for better times, to buy consumer products or consumables.
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Old 12-02-2022, 01:41 PM   #1357
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Okay. I allowed the convo to go off topic for a bit but let's bring it back to the thread title and not politics or whatever else.
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Old 12-02-2022, 01:42 PM   #1358
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Okay. I allowed the convo to go off topic for a bit but letís bring it back to the thread title and not politics or whatever else.
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Old 12-02-2022, 02:03 PM   #1359
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Not sure what happened, but I have lost ALL interest I had in this car at launch. Just have ZERO desire for this vehicle anymore, at any price.
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Old 12-02-2022, 02:09 PM   #1360
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In that regard people are getting their allocations, many at MSRP to boot at those dealerships that have honor. First deliveries will be at the extreme end of this month or the first week of January. The flood at the Motomachi facility put them 1 month behind schedule but cars are being boated in, we have vehicles at the Long Beach port and they are a few days away from being loaded on trains to get to their dealer destinations.

I should be test driving a Circuit Edition over the next week. It's a Toyota HQ vehicle they are doing testing on and using some connects it's simply down to if the car is available as they are using it a lot at HQ. I have no control over day/time so I'm going to get contacted to be at X at Y time and be given a certain amount of time with the vehicle. But if it conflicts with work I'm SOL. But I'm very grateful to have this opportunity if it pans out. I don't have a firm answer if it'll be around the block or if we'll have time to properly test it. I know where it's located and where it sleeps at night and my twisty rural route is about 15 minutes away. I sure would like to get at least an hour as I can then go out and flog it on twisty roads I know by the back of my hand. Will all come down to the HQ employee. I may get 5 minutes only to sit in it, just don't know yet.
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Old 12-02-2022, 02:10 PM   #1361
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Dupe, good ol' forum software hard at work again.
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Old 12-02-2022, 05:51 PM   #1362
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I'm looking forward to your driving impressions, Pre.

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Old 12-03-2022, 10:56 AM   #1363
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I'm looking forward to your driving impressions, Pre.
Ditto. I have an available slot in the motor pool and a bit more wiggle room in the budget than anticipated, so I'm open to picking up something fun like this.
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Old 12-03-2022, 06:59 PM   #1364
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I'm looking forward to your driving impressions, Pre.

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I hope it comes to fruition. Itís a white CE with finally the production rear wing. You can see the car here:

https://www.instagram.com/reel/ClhOp...YmMyMTA2M2Y%3D

The rear wing looks good. The first big wang they had installed caused some instability above 125 mph so now theyíve fitted this one which looks like the optional OEM big wang on the regular hatch. Looks good to me.

Yeah crossing my fingers. If itís a city drive in Frisco Iíll probably skip it. Frisco is always chalked. Jerry World 2 is there, right next to Ikea, a big mall, and a **** load of stores and restaurants so itís pointless. Iíve got my previous AWD turbo documentation ready to go for the guy and my trackdays and racing schools Iíve attended. I just want 45 minutes with it, an hour, whatever I can get. Itís been rainy and cold here for a month with intermittent flooding so Iíd love to get it on a rain day as I doubt this employee knows where the entrance to the twisties are. Iíve got a route I can run from his place in Frisco to a country town and back that would have this done turnkey in 60 minutes. If itís a kick the tires and sit in it thing, big meh. Iíve already tested seating position in the regular hatch, visibility, etc so that doesnít hold much weight. Oh well, just need to be + and hope for the best. I was told the car was being used for testing at Plano HQ but I know this business pretty well and know a lot of industry people here. If you translate that they are probably just handing the fob to various execs to drive it and provide feedback. But itís possible they could be taking it to Eagles Canyon. Either way I got the call but nothing firm yet. I have a pic of the car from the rear as well I will try and find.
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Old 12-03-2022, 07:01 PM   #1365
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Old 12-03-2022, 07:07 PM   #1366
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Oh yeah, one lass thing.

Matt Farah got a CE recently. Start looking for a video from him. I'd put more weight on his test than anyone so far as he's got a production CE parked at his house. He's already taken it to his canyons and he said one morning it was rainy and cold. He also said he'd take the CE over the Morizo. But those canyons he drives is more reflective of what most of us will do with the car vs. this or that track with too many variables between tracks. Canyon and mountain testing on actual state maintained pavement is the best reflection of what the car can do to me because that's my use case. I'm subbed to his channel but I guarantee someone will beat me to posting it on here. Looking forward to it. Lots of allocations as of today. We're nearing 200. East Coast finally got a nice drop. Most dealers gouging. The same one or two in an entire state MSRP dealers are honoring it.
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Old 12-03-2022, 11:26 PM   #1367
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Not sure what happened, but I have lost ALL interest I had in this car at launch. Just have ZERO desire for this vehicle anymore, at any price.
It could be like the GR4, I see it in pictures and Iím like eww. Then I walked past one in Taiwan and was like Wow, I gotta have one!

I think these cars just donít convey the rally car presence very well in photos.
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Old 12-03-2022, 11:37 PM   #1368
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That reply was more meant for someone else. I was agreeing with you on video cards, and think those cards are just the tip of the iceberg. I havenít been to the gun range in 3 years even though I maintain my membership. When each dealer is selling a case of ammo at 4X the price I have not wanted to burn through my stash at all. Prices, just like got damn vehicles, are finally starting to tumble. I can, again like a brand new vehicle, almost begin buying cases again so I can go back to normal by going to my membership gun range 1-2 times a month.

And hopefully sometime in 2023 I can finally finish remodeling my house which Iíve been waiting to do for over 2 years now. Materials have been selling at double or more their normal pricing or MSRP. Much like wanting to buy a video card (I donít) or anything else during this mess, Iíve just sat out and stacked whatever money I could away. Waiting, for better times, to buy consumer products or consumables.
I think cars, building supplies and ammo will all finally go back to normal. People just need to hold out another 6 months.
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Old 12-04-2022, 02:20 AM   #1369
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I think cars, building supplies and ammo will all finally go back to normal. People just need to hold out another 5 years.
Fixed
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Old 12-04-2022, 03:40 AM   #1370
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Fixed
5% rates will break our financial system a lot quicker than that. Anyone paying big ADM today will feel stupid in 6 months.
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Old 12-04-2022, 01:27 PM   #1371
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5% rates will break our financial system a lot quicker than that. Anyone paying big ADM today will feel stupid in 6 months.
Unless someone is buying the car in cash, and the purchase is a drop in the bucket in terms of how much it impacts their financials, those paying ADM and financing are going to get wrecked eventually. With the exception of some, I donít think this is a car most will hold onto 5-10 years. People get bored and want a change, some it might disappoint, some might need something bigger due to a child on the way, etc.

I guess the only caveat to my ADM comment is something within $2500 of ADM. do I agree with it? No. Is it reasonable for a vehicle in high demand and initial launch, I suppose.


That said, A91 Supra Manual can be found at MSRP (some have been able to get. $2k under so far).

Weíre slowly getting back to normal.
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Old 12-04-2022, 10:14 PM   #1372
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How do you know it sold? Carmax will ship them off to auction after a certain point.
Looks like you were right, my car popped up again at a different Carmax dealership in Massachusetts. Maybe the dealerships trade cars?

So this was sold in late July and is still on sale asking $5600 more than I got for it, and $4k over MSRP.

https://www.carmax.com/car/23091823
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Old 12-05-2022, 12:00 AM   #1373
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Looks like you were right, my car popped up again at a different Carmax dealership in Massachusetts. Maybe the dealerships trade cars?

So this was sold in late July and is still on sale asking $5600 more than I got for it, and $4k over MSRP.

https://www.carmax.com/car/23091823
They will ship to other markets. Carmax overall is a pretty solid business and they track market trends and if a vehicle is not selling in market A but itís selling well in market B, they can / will ship it and move groups of vehicles around.
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Old 12-05-2022, 09:14 AM   #1374
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Itís a white CE with finally the production rear wing. You can see the car here:

https://www.instagram.com/reel/ClhOp...YmMyMTA2M2Y%3D
So confusing, this wing was. I was convinced for a little while that it would end up being basically the same as the core except piano black. Even the pics in the configurator were changed to look like same as the core for a while. Seems they finally reflect the real thing now (could have been that way a while, haven't been paying attention.)

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Old 12-05-2022, 09:14 AM   #1375
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Unless someone is buying the car in cash, and the purchase is a drop in the bucket in terms of how much it impacts their financials, those paying ADM and financing are going to get wrecked eventually. With the exception of some, I donít think this is a car most will hold onto 5-10 years. People get bored and want a change, some it might disappoint, some might need something bigger due to a child on the way, etc.

I guess the only caveat to my ADM comment is something within $2500 of ADM. do I agree with it? No. Is it reasonable for a vehicle in high demand and initial launch, I suppose.


That said, A91 Supra Manual can be found at MSRP (some have been able to get. $2k under so far).

Weíre slowly getting back to normal.
as far as ADM, everyone has their number. for some it is 0. for others, it might be way more.

these dealers asking for as much as I've seen, it's pretty ludicrous, and they are fairly out of touch from reality, but at the same time, they have seen how much draw there is for this car, so they are adding a multiplier based on how many people have been 'added to the list'. so good for them if they find a sucker, but these numbers will probably come in line soon enough.
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