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Old 11-05-2019, 07:34 AM   #1
AVANTI R5
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Default Road & Track Performance Car of the Year Winner Is

https://www.roadandtrack.com/new-car...r-of-the-year/


Hyundai Veloster N Beats Corvette, 911 For R&T Performance COTY Award
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Old 11-05-2019, 08:37 AM   #2
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Itís not April 1st, is it?
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Old 11-05-2019, 11:13 AM   #3
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They're not picking PCOTY based on outright figures - it's based on a variety of factors for what it does for enthusiasts and the future.
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Old 11-05-2019, 02:14 PM   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by alape8 View Post
They're not picking PCOTY based on outright figures - it's based on a variety of factors for what it does for enthusiasts and the future.
or its the automaker who bought the most advertising.

FWD
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Old 11-05-2019, 02:23 PM   #5
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Originally Posted by Keshav View Post
or its the automaker who bought the most advertising.
Considering the people who actually did the reviewing, I don't think so.

And clearly folks here haven't driven modern FWD performance cars (FiST, FoST, Type-R, Si, GTI, N) on a track or even a fun back road. They are insanely chuckable, have gobs of torque with no torque steer, and are damn cheap for how fast they are.

Out of the last few cars I've had (BRZ, Chevy SS, GTI, STI) the GTI was by far the most fun on a back road and for autocross.
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Old 11-05-2019, 02:35 PM   #6
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Why do people still think FWD cars can't perform extremely well?
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Old 11-05-2019, 06:10 PM   #7
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Originally Posted by Integra96 View Post
Why do people still think FWD cars can't perform extremely well?
because in the real world they suck? my dealer didnt have a dsg r for me to test drive so i took out a dsg autobahn gti with pp. it was a warm and sunny day. any time i pushed it at all it was nothing but tire spin and traction control. add in any cold temps, rain, or snow and its utterly crippled. no thanks.
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Old 11-06-2019, 07:25 PM   #8
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Originally Posted by Integra96 View Post
Why do people still think FWD cars can't perform extremely well?
Because they are only good in absolute perfect road conditions. Add s little sleet, rain, or snow and all that goes out the window. I drove a CTR awhile back, and while it did handle better than my last fwd car (rsx-s), it still exhibited characteristics i couldn't stand about either- wheel spin, and wheel hop.
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Old 11-05-2019, 04:04 PM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kostamojen View Post
Considering the people who actually did the reviewing, I don't think so.

And clearly folks here haven't driven modern FWD performance cars (FiST, FoST, Type-R, Si, GTI, N) on a track or even a fun back road. They are insanely chuckable, have gobs of torque with no torque steer, and are damn cheap for how fast they are.

Out of the last few cars I've had (BRZ, Chevy SS, GTI, STI) the GTI was by far the most fun on a back road and for autocross.
all those people derive their income from ads in some way. it's ok. everyone sells out. you can tell by the fact they're driving their personal lambo in one video while here they tell you you should totally buy this FWD hot hatch because its so good, yo.

buy what you can afford and enjoy it. but don't tell me that magazine comparisons are anything but clickbait and bit of public fellatio for the company writing the checks.
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Old 11-07-2019, 02:52 PM   #10
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Out of the last few cars I've had (BRZ, Chevy SS, GTI, STI) the GTI was by far the most fun on a back road and for autocross.
Truth.

My GTI is much more fun to drive than my Mustang was, despite the Mustang being objectively faster in probably every metric.
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Old 11-05-2019, 02:02 PM   #11
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What a joke. You pick a front wheel drive car, for performance car of the year, you're just stupid, period.
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Old 11-05-2019, 02:42 PM   #12
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Because they were told so without ever driving a modern example.
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Old 11-05-2019, 03:06 PM   #13
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I test drove the N and it is a great car for the price, no doubt.

I don't think I would have called it PCOTY, especially when the new mid engine Corvette is here.

The Type R didn't win in 2018, and from a performance standpoint, it's a great car. The N doesn't quite achieve the same level as the Type R.

But whatever, congrats Hyundai.
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Old 11-05-2019, 03:32 PM   #14
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They explained their judgement criteria at the beginning of the article. Their decision wasn't solely based on performance.. or really much at all. They focused heavily on the fun factor.

Quote:
To pick a winner, we used the following criteria:
  • Outright speed and testing numbers are part of the package, but they don’t determine the winner. Beyond sheer pace, a car has to bring emotion to the table.
  • The car must embrace track duty while still being enjoyable on the road.
  • Technology has to be used in service of the driver, not just added speed. Feedback and sensation via complexity is great, but complexity alone doesn’t cut it.
  • Lastly, we ask ourselves, would any other manufacturer build it? Does the car feel uniquely of its story and brand, with a personality all its own?
The C8 & Supra are both great, fast, RWD performance cars.. but they lack a manual transmission which can detract from the fun/emotional factor.

Speed is an important part of the equation, but can you legally enjoy the performance on a public road? Do you miss rowing the gears of a manual transmission while driving the car?

C8 complaint:
  • The transmission.. "The hitch, sinking the C8, was the transmission" - "..manual mode is a half step behind the competition, denying downshifts or letting the engine bash the limiter, unsure of how much intervention to provide... If you must take our clutch pedals, at least swap them for a transmission that wants to play."
Supra complaints:
  • It's a BMW.. "..there’s not much Supra here—none of the name’s legendary solidity and brawn—or even much Toyota. The chassis and driveline are shared with the BMW Z4; the badge on the hood has a BMW part number. The interior smells like a BMW. And despite the Toyota-specific suspension and driveline tune, the car suffers from the same maladies that plague most modern BMWs.. without undoing a single fastener, we counted 28 separate uses of the word “BMW,” or the BMW logo, under the Supra’s hood."
  • “The Toyota somehow manages to be joyless,” editor-at-large Sam Smith said, after his first session. “There’s no reward for focus, no incentive to be a hooligan… It doesn’t feel like any fast Toyota I’ve driven. None of the confidence or unflappability of a second- or third-generation Supra.” At the limit, it can be twitchy and distant.
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Old 11-05-2019, 04:24 PM   #15
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Quote:
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The Type R didn't win in 2018, and from a performance standpoint, it's a great car. The N doesn't quite achieve the same level as the Type R.
The Type-R sounds terrible, looks terrible and doesn't like to rotate like the N does.

Its faster on the track yes, but so is everything else on this test but the Miata. Track times only matter if you are actually competetivly competing with the thing.
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Old 11-07-2019, 02:31 PM   #16
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Originally Posted by Kostamojen View Post
The Type-R sounds terrible, looks terrible and doesn't like to rotate like the N does.

Its faster on the track yes, but so is everything else on this test but the Miata. Track times only matter if you are actually competetivly competing with the thing.
I daily drive a Type R, I'd love to know how it sounds terrible? Looks are subjective, but let me tell you - I've never had so many random people compliment the Type R than I have any other car I've owned.

'00 Honda Civic Si x2
'05 BMW 330Ci ZHP
'06 Acura RSX Type S x2 (dealer totaled one )
'07 Subaru STi
'11 Honda Civic Si Sedan
'18 Subaru STi Type RA
'19 Honda Civic Type R

Out of all of those, the Type R has yielded more compliments in one month of ownership than all of the other cars combined in all my years of owning them.

That said, the CTR took a long-long time to grow on me and I love the car.
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Old 11-07-2019, 05:08 PM   #17
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I daily drive a Type R, I'd love to know how it sounds terrible?
It has no sound at all.

Meanwhile the N sounds fabulous
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Old 11-07-2019, 05:29 PM   #18
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Originally Posted by Kostamojen View Post
It has no sound at all.

Meanwhile the N sounds fabulous
I have to admit for a car with a 3-tip center exhaust which I assume is supposed to hint of sporty intentions, it sounds quieter than the Civic Si.
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Old 11-07-2019, 05:37 PM   #19
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Originally Posted by Kostamojen View Post
It has no sound at all.

Meanwhile the N sounds fabulous
Not making excuses, but I have read somewhere that the CTR needs to rev to nearly 3.2K RPM to reach 80 mph in top gear.
Maybe quiet is best if it's going to sound like **** on long highway trips...
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Old 11-08-2019, 12:40 PM   #20
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Originally Posted by Kostamojen View Post
It has no sound at all.

Meanwhile the N sounds fabulous
Personally, I hate the pops the N makes, sounds like a broken Ford Focus RS - which also sounds like crap.

The CTR from the outside, yes, it's quite quiet, but in the cabin it's actually decent.

I'm used to hi-comp Honda engines that are anything but quiet, but for driving around town it gets the job done.

My '07 was just loud and it got old after a while.
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Old 11-07-2019, 08:08 PM   #21
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Originally Posted by SatinWhitePearl View Post

.....Out of all of those, the Type R has yielded more compliments in one month of ownership than all of the other cars combined in all my years of owning them.

That said, the CTR took a long-long time to grow on me and I love the car.
Substitute Baja in the highlighted area and that's my statement. More than my '04 STi when I got it. Crazy, right?
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Old 11-05-2019, 03:20 PM   #22
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This is a real good read...

I liked the excerpt about the 911... Completely being forgotten daily driving it, but on the track it really can't be compared.
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Old 11-05-2019, 03:30 PM   #23
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if you read the article you will see it was the 2nd worse performer in the group.

They put more weight in the subjective vs the objective. A lot more weight.
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Old 11-05-2019, 04:37 PM   #24
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That was a great goddamn article. Will I be trading in my ST for an N? No, but I loved the message behind the article. I haven't driven a single car on that list, but the sentiment about cars selling they souls for speed is sad. Drivers cars are disappearing quickly and being replaced by numbers cars.
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Old 11-05-2019, 05:16 PM   #25
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If nobody has driven Thunderhill, do. It's fun and accessible. Great track with pucker zones. The fact they chose the Hyundai on that track is telling how good the N has been worked and refined.
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