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Old 08-14-2018, 01:05 PM   #11726
NewSilverWRX
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Originally Posted by Impreza WR Rex View Post
Thanks. Confirmed this is identical to the A4TJ111C ROM available elsewhere.
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Old 08-14-2018, 01:19 PM   #11727
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vlad View Post
So my ECU runs native on A4TJ111C.
Thanks for confirming this. This is where I'm going to start also.

Quote:
Your question is what's the ECU part number that goes with it, so you can associate it with a car? I think that list is on the romraider page.
Essentially yes. Some of the information on the Romraider forums is inaccurate. Thanks to Impreza WR Rex I now know definitively that the 820 ECU runs the A4TJ111C ROM natively.

Quote:
Your problem with the later immobilized rom not priming can be because they physically swapped two pins in the pinout, for the fuel pump. So you'd have to repin those in your car's wiring harness in order to prime the pump and fuel the engine, if somehow you eliminated the imobillizer..
I was not aware of this. I will need to recheck the harness from the immobilized ECU I had (still have the harness). For the record with A4TJ121C ROM on this non immobilized ECU hardware the fuel pump does prime.

Quote:
What i'm trying to say is: If the rom can flip the physical assignment of the NPS from normally closed to normally open, maybe it can flip the assignment of the fuel pump from normally pins 2 and 3 to normally pins 4 and 5 (as a fictional example) and because your harness still has them at 2 and 3, you can't prime and fuel.
I don't think that's how it works, but I'm new to this stuff. I'm assuming the NPS invert is being accomplished by changing an OR (or maybe XOR) bitmap that the ECU uses to read the memory value where some hardware has deposited the state of the switch (CLOSED/OPEN).

To be clear I'm going to table my effort to get the AT4J121C ROM to work. The 7 tables will be easy to copy over so the A4TJ111C ROM will be my starting point. Again, thanks for your help and all of your replies.
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Old 08-14-2018, 11:12 PM   #11728
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hey guys quick question for those of you running the 32bit ecu and wiring running an ej207...do any of you guys run a flex fuel setup through an AP?
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Old 08-24-2018, 12:24 PM   #11729
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Default V9 EJ207 Spec -C

I recently had what is supposed to be a V9 Spec-C 207 installed in my 02 WRX. However the engine will not start with the provided ECU, and there is no signal to the fuel pump. I am thinking the ECU may be immobilized.

The ECU part # is T1 22611AL380. From what I've found this part number should be from a GDB Spec-C

Are there years or models the Spec-C were immobilized?

Is there something else I should be checking?

Are the V9 Spec-C engines dual AVCS?

Can the V8 ECU be tuned to compensate for any difference in the heads, i.e. different flow rates?

Last edited by gtfaded; 08-24-2018 at 12:36 PM.
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Old 08-24-2018, 01:54 PM   #11730
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Originally Posted by gtfaded View Post
I recently had what is supposed to be a V9 Spec-C 207 installed in my 02 WRX. However the engine will not start with the provided ECU, and there is no signal to the fuel pump. I am thinking the ECU may be immobilized.

The ECU part # is T1 22611AL380. From what I've found this part number should be from a GDB Spec-C

Are there years or models the Spec-C were immobilized?

Is there something else I should be checking?

Are the V9 Spec-C engines dual AVCS?

Can the V8 ECU be tuned to compensate for any difference in the heads, i.e. different flow rates?
The v9 ECU has the immobilizer on it while the v8 and v7 doesn't. The dual avcs motors are v10+.

Yes, the v8 ECU can be tuned to whatever you want. Also, you can run the Carberry ROM on it along with his Flexfuel kit (if it's still available).

Last edited by Fierysun; 08-24-2018 at 02:00 PM.
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Old 09-16-2018, 01:48 PM   #11731
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To anyone that has an EJ207 swap and is dealing with P1491 when they plug in their old ECU (mine is a 2005), rest assured when the code is turned off in romraider you will have no issues passing smog.

After turning it off, I was still seeing P1491 in my "Temporary DTC" on learning view which was a bit disconcerting.

From there I started researching and found an older post in this thread regarding someone having the same issue, but with a Saabaru, and their solution was grounding out the signal wire at the ecu by jumping it.

You do not have to do this!

Smog tech said there were zero pending codes, and I passed without issue.

Just wanted to add that in for future CA victims, I mean residents.
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Old 10-03-2018, 06:48 PM   #11732
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Putting a 207 into my 02. Trying to choose between a V7, V8, or V9 for it. The stock 205 gave me 215k miles of trouble free driving and racing. Pushing about 230hp finally caused rod knock.

Anyway. I know the 7 has the forged internals. Who doesn't love forged internals? But the V8s twin scroll is appealing (and is a bit cheaper). I don't know much about the V9s.

I do track days, Autocross, and Rallycross. So big numbers aren't as important as less lag and larger power bands (and reliability as I don't want to rebuild/replace every few years). I figure 300 to 350hp is as high as I would want to go.

Thanks
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Old 10-03-2018, 08:16 PM   #11733
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The ver 7 has forged pistons, some motors also come with big cylinder head ports. I had a ver 8 and loved the power band and power delivery with the stock vf37. I now have a ver 7 with a vf48, I like it but not more than I liked the ver 8 I had before. Id go to a ver 9 if I was doing it again, it is a completely revised EJ207 with good improvements.
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Old 10-03-2018, 09:13 PM   #11734
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Originally Posted by Drnknmnky13 View Post
Putting a 207 into my 02. Trying to choose between a V7, V8, or V9 for it. The stock 205 gave me 215k miles of trouble free driving and racing. Pushing about 230hp finally caused rod knock.

Anyway. I know the 7 has the forged internals. Who doesn't love forged internals? But the V8s twin scroll is appealing (and is a bit cheaper). I don't know much about the V9s.

I do track days, Autocross, and Rallycross. So big numbers aren't as important as less lag and larger power bands (and reliability as I don't want to rebuild/replace every few years). I figure 300 to 350hp is as high as I would want to go.

Thanks
I went with a v7 based on forged pistons which was true but also misinformation posted in the engine FAQ in this forum about potential of the twin vs single scroll setup. I corrected that at my expense by swapping my v7 over to a twin scroll VF36 (spec-c turbo).

The twin scroll is far superior in all manners for your application and goals. Go V8 or 9 from the start, you receive a superior torque curve and power delivery through the entire rev range (look at my build thread which shows Dyno overlays of my VF30 vs VF36). I have also read the cams in V8 - 9 are improved.

I love this engine and setup, it is a smooth rev with such a long power band. The 8200 rpm redline makes time feel like it's standing still (well still 5MT here). Not that most here care but because this is my primary family car, it still bags 20mpg in town and 27 on highway driven in a spiritless manner. It is also easier to control the volume with EL headers and proper sound control without giving up spool/power.
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Old 10-04-2018, 12:49 AM   #11735
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To tell you the truth, forge pistons isn't a factor (weak link) on the 2.0L. My v9 has been solid at 450whp (600bhp-ish) for about three years with very very spirited driving. The real concern is the cylinder walls cracking/splitting at the top.

Last edited by Fierysun; 10-04-2018 at 01:18 AM.
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Old 10-07-2018, 01:47 PM   #11736
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fierysun View Post
To tell you the truth, forge pistons isn't a factor (weak link) on the 2.0L. My v9 has been solid at 450whp (600bhp-ish) for about three years with very very spirited driving. The real concern is the cylinder walls cracking/splitting at the top.
I havent really seen many split cylinder walls. I have seen the 25 do that but havent really seen that problem in the 207s
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Old 10-07-2018, 04:53 PM   #11737
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Is there somewhere I can see the differences between the v7 and v9 intercooler, including weight of the v9.

I picked up a grimmspeed to replace my v7 which seemed to heatsoak at times but this grimmspeed is a pig lead weight....
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Old 10-08-2018, 03:00 AM   #11738
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Originally Posted by subaru_gc8 View Post
I havent really seen many split cylinder walls. I have seen the 25 do that but havent really seen that problem in the 207s
Definitely true on the EJ257 and time will tell on the ej207 with a 100% stock long block pushing 450whp+. We'll see (keeping fingers crossed)...

Quote:
Originally Posted by suprabats View Post
Is there somewhere I can see the differences between the v7 and v9 intercooler, including weight of the v9.

I picked up a grimmspeed to replace my v7 which seemed to heatsoak at times but this grimmspeed is a pig lead weight....
The v9 TMIC is larger then the v7's.
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Old 10-08-2018, 01:34 PM   #11739
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fierysun View Post
The v9 TMIC is larger then the v7's.
No it isn't. The 06-07 I/C just has split top entrances which carried on to the 08+ stuff.
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Old 10-08-2018, 03:32 PM   #11740
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yep
in fact V7 has the biggest core out of all OEM coolers
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Old 10-08-2018, 04:09 PM   #11741
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fierysun View Post
Definitely true on the EJ257 and time will tell on the ej207 with a 100% stock long block pushing 450whp+. We'll see (keeping fingers crossed)...



The v9 TMIC is larger then the v7's.
You will be fine, if it hasnt let go yet, it will last. The ej257 has little dimples on the outer walls that they cut to mke room for the head studs
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Old 10-08-2018, 04:13 PM   #11742
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Originally Posted by Hyper View Post
yep
in fact V7 has the biggest core out of all OEM coolers
Interesting.

I wonder how much the grimmspeed actually has to offer over it. I like to shave weight where I can but heat management would trump weight in this scenario.
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Old 10-08-2018, 04:55 PM   #11743
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honestly OEM new age STI and OEM EVO intercoolers are one of the best heat exchangers on the market

if you are upgrading to a point where you need a bigger intercooler it already makes sense to go FMIC
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Old 10-08-2018, 05:47 PM   #11744
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Originally Posted by suprabats View Post
Interesting.

I wonder how much the grimmspeed actually has to offer over it. I like to shave weight where I can but heat management would trump weight in this scenario.
Are you at a point where you can no longer stabilize IATs? If not, or if you can't answer that question, then the GrimmSpeed offers nothing over the factory intercooler.

Preemptively buying a new intercooler when you don't need or don't know if you need a better one is one of the biggest wastes of money I can think of on a turbo car. The exception to this is on cars with a severely lacking factory intercooler that is sized precisely to OEM output and cannot handle a lick more.

These situations are usually well documented and the factory part is often low-quality (cheap) construction or included as part of a manufacturer stuffing a motor from one car into a different chassis without changing the parts. Another case still is late-80's to early-90's stuff where intercooler technology simply got better near the 2000's.

Make your own judgement here, but weigh it against the data you have available. The best intercooler is the one that stabilizes your IAT under ALL operating conditions without being a hair larger/heavier than necessary to do it. From a maintenance perspective too, installing a larger intercooler is not a good way to make your life any easier when it comes time to remove/reinstall it.
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Old 10-08-2018, 06:13 PM   #11745
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Originally Posted by mrsaturn7085 View Post
Are you at a point where you can no longer stabilize IATs? If not, or if you can't answer that question, then the GrimmSpeed offers nothing over the factory intercooler.

Preemptively buying a new intercooler when you don't need or don't know if you need a better one is one of the biggest wastes of money I can think of on a turbo car. The exception to this is on cars with a severely lacking factory intercooler that is sized precisely to OEM output and cannot handle a lick more.

These situations are usually well documented and the factory part is often low-quality (cheap) construction or included as part of a manufacturer stuffing a motor from one car into a different chassis without changing the parts. Another case still is late-80's to early-90's stuff where intercooler technology simply got better near the 2000's.

Make your own judgement here, but weigh it against the data you have available. The best intercooler is the one that stabilizes your IAT under ALL operating conditions without being a hair larger/heavier than necessary to do it. From a maintenance perspective too, installing a larger intercooler is not a good way to make your life any easier when it comes time to remove/reinstall it.
No waste here as it was a used at a price that has a no loss or potential gain resell at a part-out. That makes it a penalty free test scenario where I can put these back to back, which I now will arrange for with IAT comparisons next summer.

I haven't found the install process to be any different as I did take the grimmspeed back off at one point to redo a clamp, it just weighs a bit more to lift, it's adjustable mount bolt slides on either side actually simplify fitment over oem.

It is possible that better heat shielding would be as or more effective than the core change. There's quite a bit of heat near the IC with the turbo and DP even with oem heat shielding (on the VF36) compared to heat management I've done on other builds. I may swaintech the downpipe (which for the tomioka twin scroll is no heatshielding on the pipe compared to oem)
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Old 10-08-2018, 10:06 PM   #11746
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I've done a few of the mods that you are thinking about on my EJ207 w/ a VF37 so I can give you my perspective. I have the Grimmspeed TMIC and from my experience it didn't seem to heatsoak as often at the v8 STi TMIC and the engine seems a bit happier up top too. It does weigh 10lbs more that the v8 TMIC which is a bummer (I'm trying to drop as much weight from the front end as possible). And it's actually not that fun to install. It's big and heavy and it a pretty tight fit. But overall, I'm happy with it.

Also, FWIW, I have done a few front end weight reduction mods as well like the Oswald lightweight bumper beam, relocating the battery and washer tank in the trunk, u-brace delete, various brackets and bolts removed, and a few other things... but for me the GS TMIC is worth the weight penalty.

As for heat management, I have a turbo blanket, Perrin downpipe blanket (on stock downpipe with heatshields removed because they rattled) and hood vents. All of those help with heat, especially here in Tennessee where summer seems to never end. I would definitely focus on heat management regardless of what intercooler you choose to run.

Obviously, this is all anecdotal so take it FWIW.

Quote:
Originally Posted by suprabats View Post
No waste here as it was a used at a price that has a no loss or potential gain resell at a part-out. That makes it a penalty free test scenario where I can put these back to back, which I now will arrange for with IAT comparisons next summer.

I haven't found the install process to be any different as I did take the grimmspeed back off at one point to redo a clamp, it just weighs a bit more to lift, it's adjustable mount bolt slides on either side actually simplify fitment over oem.

It is possible that better heat shielding would be as or more effective than the core change. There's quite a bit of heat near the IC with the turbo and DP even with oem heat shielding (on the VF36) compared to heat management I've done on other builds. I may swaintech the downpipe (which for the tomioka twin scroll is no heatshielding on the pipe compared to oem)
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Old 10-09-2018, 03:00 AM   #11747
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a bar and plate core will take longer to heatsoak, but it will also take longer to cool down
I found that the OEM IC (v7-9 for my preference) with proper heat management was the best performer for cars under 400-450hp. We pulled 505 crank hp on V8 IC once with a garrett35, but it was the limiting factor and car was on edge of knock

heat soak is inevitable on a boxer engine with intake manifold sitting on top of the engine, WI is the only real solution that helps, or very custom venting and ducting like done on race cars
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Old 10-09-2018, 04:24 PM   #11748
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Originally Posted by Hyper View Post
a bar and plate core will take longer to heatsoak, but it will also take longer to cool down
I found that the OEM IC (v7-9 for my preference) with proper heat management was the best performer for cars under 400-450hp. We pulled 505 crank hp on V8 IC once with a garrett35, but it was the limiting factor and car was on edge of knock

heat soak is inevitable on a boxer engine with intake manifold sitting on top of the engine, WI is the only real solution that helps, or very custom venting and ducting like done on race cars
Was this a limitation on the dyno or in real-world logging? There's often a big difference when it comes to intercooler efficiency in these two cases. That in mind, anything over a GT30 sized turbo would probably benefit from a larger I/C... as a rule of thumb. It all depends how inefficiently you want to run the turbo - keep it inside of 75% or better efficiency and you'll be pushing pretty cool (relatively) air.
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Old 10-09-2018, 06:00 PM   #11749
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real world tuning/logging
it for more for experiment sake as we were curious to see how much power we can get away with on the stock IC, car was sold shortly after and upgraded to FMIC



also I haven't noticed any improvement going from V9 IC to the huge ETS GR IC running blouch 1.5xtr which is basically a small GT30 turbo, so I consider TMIC upgrades over JDM units a total waste of money, and I agree when going over GT30 sized turbo you should simply get a proper FMIC setup
with proper piping and tuning, there is NO loss of power(band), unlike many state, and lag is overrated
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Old 10-09-2018, 08:43 PM   #11750
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hyper View Post
also I haven't noticed any improvement going from V9 IC to the huge ETS GR IC running blouch 1.5xtr which is basically a small GT30 turbo, so I consider TMIC upgrades over JDM units a total waste of money, and I agree when going over GT30 sized turbo you should simply get a proper FMIC setup
with proper piping and tuning, there is NO loss of power(band), unlike many state, and lag is overrated
The USDM intercoolers are almost the same, too. Lots of money for little (or no) benefit). I could not fit the 2006-2007 intercooler behind the DBW throttle without firewall interference.

I think the benefit of the OEM style is having the throttle response given the large reservoir right in front of the throttle. Turbo lag is negligible but the throttle lag does exist with a FMIC. You can tune around it with a little more spark, etc. but it *DOES* need to be considered when you tune the tip-in.

EDIT: Hyper - are you logging pre-throttle boost in that photo? That's a great place to do it that I hadn't considered, but for anti-lag tuning, I've been brainstorming where I want to stick the tap.

What I *really* wouldn't mind having is a restrictor with something like this built-in so I could measure PR and hold it around 1.8.


Last edited by mrsaturn7085; 10-09-2018 at 09:05 PM.
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