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Old 04-05-2016, 06:24 PM   #276
legav05
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That's assuming 100% charge efficiency, correct? Though even at 80% the 3 is still on top.

Good stuff.
Yeah you're right. Although, actual charge efficiency (I measured it) in my Model S is 93%. Most of that seems to be auxiliary loads like coolant pumps, loads which I expect to be improved for the 2nd/3rd gen pack and charger on the Model 3.

edit: 93% on a 40A charger. It actually goes UP with 80A, but I don't have one of those (yet).
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Old 04-05-2016, 06:58 PM   #277
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Glad we agree as that was my point. Electricity may be 1/10 the price for you with solar panels, free electricity at night, and free charging stations nearby, but that's certainly not the norm and shouldn't be cited generically to someone asking about EV costs.
It was 1/10th before my solar panels dude. That was a combo of 240v charging at home, @ .07 per kwh, and using 480v chademos. Now it's 0/10ths, as the chit is free! I don't pay fuel costs for my DD any longer.
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Old 04-05-2016, 07:34 PM   #278
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It was 1/10th before my solar panels dude. That was a combo of 240v charging at home, @ .07 per kwh, and using 480v chademos. Now it's 0/10ths, as the chit is free! I don't pay fuel costs for my DD any longer.
This should be a conservative/libertarians wet dream right? Don't need to stinkin' socialist electric grid. Zombie apocalypse? Car still runs.
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Old 04-05-2016, 07:59 PM   #279
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No more having to listen to blown out amped speakers blasting Tejano, or Dirty South Rap either. No more f'ing with the pump or credit card reader when it's cold, windy or raining. I use the superchargers when I need them but 90% of the time is definitely at home these days for why you said. I wait until 9pm, when my electricity is free and plug the ho in.
I pay for my gas via my phone before I get out of my car? And if it's cold, I'm still wearing cold weather gear anyways for when I have to get out of the car to go into work, and work to home.

And since I don't have a garage, I'd have to be out in the rain/wind/snow to plug it in, and unplug it when I leave.

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Old 04-05-2016, 09:19 PM   #280
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Speaking of outdoor charging, are there any issues with charging in the rain or snow? Obviously water and voltage don't mix well. My concern would be plugging in or plug removal during a down pour or blizzard.
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Old 04-05-2016, 09:41 PM   #281
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Speaking of outdoor charging, are there any issues with charging in the rain or snow? Obviously water and voltage don't mix well. My concern would be plugging in or plug removal during a down pour or blizzard.
Not really. The chargers and plugs are pretty much weatherized.
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Old 04-06-2016, 12:57 AM   #282
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So the model 3 is a high performance car but can't go to the track, not very good at being hooligan on the highway, but a high performance car. It is advertised as a low cost car that is comparable to a 3 series or an A4 but in reality probably will costs the same. The allure is no maintenance required and fuel saving. But you have to go out of your way to find free charging stations or hitch-hike charging. You don't spend time in gas stations, you spend time in some open parking lots. You save money on fuels, enough to rent or fly when you need to travel.
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Old 04-09-2016, 11:09 AM   #283
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You charge at home 99% of the time unless you're a retired fogey who drives cross country on the Supercharger network to prove some retarded point.

It's a moderately quick, attractive, futuristic car that has no tailpipe emissions, is smooth by its nature, and can drive itself. All that and it's built in California and is under the mean new car transaction price after tax credits (assuming full credit). You can't see why people are excited about such a thing?
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Old 04-09-2016, 05:33 PM   #284
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You charge at home 99% of the time unless you're a retired fogey who drives cross country on the Supercharger network to prove some retarded point.

That's great!
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Old 04-09-2016, 05:52 PM   #285
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You charge at home 99% of the time unless you're a retired fogey who drives cross country on the Supercharger network to prove some retarded point.
Wow, hit the nail right on the head there.
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Old 04-09-2016, 06:16 PM   #286
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You charge at home 99% of the time unless you're a retired fogey who drives cross country on the Supercharger network to prove some retarded point.

It's a moderately quick, attractive, futuristic car that has no tailpipe emissions, is smooth by its nature, and can drive itself. All that and it's built in California and is under the mean new car transaction price after tax credits (assuming full credit). You can't see why people are excited about such a thing?
Actually, it starts right at the mean car price before credits. It's $35,000 for both.
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Old 04-10-2016, 11:29 PM   #287
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You charge at home 99% of the time unless you're a retired fogey who drives cross country on the Supercharger network to prove some retarded point.

It's a moderately quick, attractive, futuristic car that has no tailpipe emissions, is smooth by its nature, and can drive itself. All that and it's built in California and is under the mean new car transaction price after tax credits (assuming full credit). You can't see why people are excited about such a thing?
So you are saying your hero, Mr. Elon Musk was trying to prove some "retarded point" when he drove from Newyork to LA ??
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Old 04-10-2016, 11:56 PM   #288
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So you are saying your hero, Mr. Elon Musk was trying to prove some "retarded point" when he drove from Newyork to LA ??
Selling cars of old fogies. They did cancel pack swap though, because everyone who actually owned and drove the car thought it was stupid.
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Old 04-11-2016, 12:53 PM   #289
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So you are saying your hero, Mr. Elon Musk was trying to prove some "retarded point" when he drove from Newyork to LA ??
CEOs doing things for publicity stunts aren't covered by my blanket statement. Everyone know's it's theoretically possible. Actually doing it instead of flying is the retarded action.
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Old 04-11-2016, 01:20 PM   #290
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Far from an old fogey here. I think it would be fun to roadtrip across the country. I have great memories from family roadtrips. Probably not in a Tesla yet as I would go off from the main Supercharger network paths. I still do a 1000 mile road trip 1-2x times per year. I would rather drive than fly, if time wasn't an issue.

That said, I wish Tesla would install the Superchargers in more urban and suburban areas were most people drive 80-90% of the time. Having them across the country along the highways are good but how many actually utilize them? Way too many major metro areas are under served. I don't see Model S outside of urban areas.

Last edited by subyski; 04-11-2016 at 01:32 PM.
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Old 04-11-2016, 02:48 PM   #291
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Far from an old fogey here. I think it would be fun to roadtrip across the country. I have great memories from family roadtrips. Probably not in a Tesla yet as I would go off from the main Supercharger network paths. I still do a 1000 mile road trip 1-2x times per year. I would rather drive than fly, if time wasn't an issue.

That said, I wish Tesla would install the Superchargers in more urban and suburban areas were most people drive 80-90% of the time. Having them across the country along the highways are good but how many actually utilize them? Way too many major metro areas are under served. I don't see Model S outside of urban areas.
While many metro areas are well covered. In Dallas, there is an outstanding charging infrastructure already, hell 2 years ago. 240's and 480's strategically placed through the metro area as well as Tesla charger stops to the other major cities. Chargers needn't be Tesla owned, and I think many don't understand this. Chargepoint, and Blink are the major players here currently. Tesla coming in and putting in theirs will only strengthen this. You have to look up all the available chargers, not just Tesla branded ones. Just because it's a Tesla doesn't mean you can only charge on their infrastructure. There are many others.

For most people this isn't an issue. It's an issue for people on the internet to complain about. My car only has an 84 mile range and I haven't had a problem in 2 years getting to where I want to go in my metroplex. It's called range anxiety, and the people with it are the people with zero experience. "200 miles! What am I gonna do? Me scurrrrrred"

I used to enjoy the good road trip, and still do on a motorcycle, where I have a supercar like power to weight ratio. And that's taking the long way, hunting for every twisty road I can find. But it's something I no longer want to do in a car. Congestion, smartphones, these days I want to drive as little as possible in a car.
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Old 04-11-2016, 02:57 PM   #292
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Agree, even in our mid-sized metro area every public parking garage has at least 10 charging stations, and the big ones have 4-10 on each level. So finding a station currently isn't an issue.
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Old 04-11-2016, 02:59 PM   #293
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Superchargers (or ChaDeMo) are for road trips. For trips around one's home city then one charges in one's own garage. One only truly gets this after living with an EV for some time.
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Old 04-11-2016, 04:02 PM   #294
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it's something I no longer want to do in a car....I want to drive as little as possible in a car.
Seems a car enthusiast board filled with people who love to drive is a strange place to preach...

Just say'n
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Old 04-11-2016, 06:17 PM   #295
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Seems a car enthusiast board filled with people who love to drive is a strange place to preach...

Just say'n
It's a DD, not your weekend ride dude. And who is preaching? Don't project your bs on me, I'm not preaching to anyone. Do what you like. Road tripping in TX on the interstate, like between Dallas and Austin, is a f'ing clusterF. I'd rather take Southwest.

Here in the DFDub. Californians have invaded, in spades, like f'in cockroaches. So every highway is crammed up, congestion like never before. Driving ain't fun around here no mo. Too many out of staters. Even my country roads have new subdivisions being slotted in for these clowns. They all moved here and all I got was higher property tax and more traffic. Get out commies!

I have my fun on two wheels these days. And I have to ride out to BFE to do it.
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Old 04-11-2016, 10:53 PM   #296
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Selling cars of old fogies. They did cancel pack swap though, because everyone who actually owned and drove the car thought it was stupid.
I don't think it is stupid, it is to create hype and it worked. I remembered some guy came here and swearing up and down how swap pack is going to make refueling electric car faster then gas car. Because Musk say so !
I will buy one when the technology is mature enough, right now it is not.
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Old 04-12-2016, 12:34 AM   #297
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I don't think it is stupid, it is to create hype and it worked. I remembered some guy came here and swearing up and down how swap pack is going to make refueling electric car faster then gas car. Because Musk say so !
I will buy one when the technology is mature enough, right now it is not.
Well it did make it faster than getting gas. But Tesla eventually expanded the invite only program to all of California, and even then they only had a few people do the swap "for the hell of it" and never again. It was cancelled due to low participation. I'm afraid that lesson still hasn't sunk in with the gas crowd. 200+ miles means the necessity of charging away from home is rare. Get to 300-500 and it's very very rare. Tesla is at 288 EPA rated miles now with the 90D. We already know 100D is coming "soon", that will be 323 EPA miles.
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Old 04-12-2016, 08:23 AM   #298
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I am not sure you get the point. You keep explaining why people CAN use the Tesla this or that. Which is just math, and makes sense. Fair enough, but the simple fact is a vast majority still do not WANT one. A nice omelet pan makes sense as well, makes a great omelet, but it is not necessary and may just do not want it. When choosing an appliance you need something to set it apart. Why would a given appliance shopper choose a 3 over a Camry. Appliance shopper mind you. The 30-50k crowd is not the same demographic as the 100k dollar crowd. Just saying.

A model 3 would fit my range needs just fine, but the trunk is too small, and just do not like it over the competition. Given what you can buy for say 35000 - 40000 dollars, well there is quite a bit to choose from.

Still I think the take rate on these will be pretty good. I think Tesla has made its move, and it is time to see how long the Hype machine can keep them in the spot light, especially after the Bolt comes out. Watching a market segment being born is interesting.
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Old 04-12-2016, 11:29 AM   #299
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I am not sure you get the point. You keep explaining why people CAN use the Tesla this or that. Which is just math, and makes sense. Fair enough, but the simple fact is a vast majority still do not WANT one. A nice omelet pan makes sense as well, makes a great omelet, but it is not necessary and may just do not want it. When choosing an appliance you need something to set it apart. Why would a given appliance shopper choose a 3 over a Camry.
Because every aspect of the cars have been designed specifically as rebuttal points (to realists) or braggart quips (to dreamers), and weak people will do anything to be in the safe part of the herd.
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Old 04-12-2016, 01:17 PM   #300
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Fair enough, but the simple fact is a vast majority still do not WANT one.
In 2015 Model S decimated the competitors market share in it's class, followed up by over 325,000 reservations for the Model 3 in 1 week. That's nearly all the Camry sales for a year. Further more, anecdotally, I have yet to meet someone who doesn't want one, the few that do change their minds within 5 minutes of being a passenger. I even have some staunch conservative friends who are now reservation holders of the Model 3.

So you're still opposed to reality I see. Every car in your neighborhood could be a Tesla and you'd still think "no one wants one".
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