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Old 10-04-2019, 08:43 PM   #401
TriAxis 6
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Default Mid-Engined Corvette Program Reportedly Inching Towards Public Confirmation

Quote:
Originally Posted by 4S-TURBO View Post
My neighbor has one and it's scary loud. Another neighbor has an STI with nameless deletes...just not the same ya know.


My 2014 STi was fully catless with a full turbo back and Q300. When the waste-gate opened up, Metallica could have been rehearsing in the hatch, and I wouldnít have known. It was insanely loud. Even when not under boost, just cruising at 3k rpms or so.

Now donít get me wrong, I donít mind volume if ďtoneĒ accompanies it. But you are right, EJ257 loud and LT4 loud share absolutely nothing in common except for volume itself.

Even with the killer B holy header making the EJ sound more ďEuro-TunedĒ it had gotten annoying. The LT4 sounds as beautiful as it can while still sounding like a dragon that got kicked in the balls and is out looking for vengeance.

....and thatís before the supercharger kicks in yo!
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Last edited by TriAxis 6; 10-05-2019 at 08:30 PM.
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Old 10-04-2019, 11:17 PM   #402
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Originally Posted by BeepBoop View Post
I want a supra, 300zx, rx7, skyline, nsx, eclipse, evo, sti that followed the same trend as a normal pedestrian car or a mustang.

The japanese cars of the 90s before they priced themselves out of the market due to exchange rates were more reliable, far better quality, far more performant, and far better at accepting mods reliably than any other sports car.

The americans were laughable.
The germans were expensive and issue prone.
So many misrepresentations in this post. Could spend hours dis-proving all of them.

Also, the NSX was impressive but never anything but a cool looking car that performed mid-pack . . . kind of like how it was priced, well that is until the end of the run when it because obsolete, much like the current NSX.
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Old 10-04-2019, 11:20 PM   #403
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Originally Posted by SCRAPPYDO View Post
This is the best vette ever made. I am kind of proud of GM for making it. No that was not easy for me to say. LOLOL


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Originally Posted by TriAxis 6 View Post
All I can say is that when I switch the NPP exhaust into Track mode and all the pipes open up, itís heaven. I donít believe thereís anything piped into the cockpit of the Z06. Maybe Iím wrong. But all I hear is huge, delicious gobs of cammed out, pissed off at the world, see you bitches in 1320 growl! 🤪🤩
My car idles at 103dB. The speakers are useless, even if they could pipe sound into the cabin. Also tinnitus.
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Old 10-05-2019, 05:49 PM   #404
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All I can say is that when I switch the NPP exhaust into Track mode and all the pipes open up, itís heaven. I donít believe thereís anything piped into the cockpit of the Z06. Maybe Iím wrong. But all I hear is huge, delicious gobs of cammed out, pissed off at the world, see you bitches in 1320 growl! 🤪🤩
I like this guy

You can come over to my house and F my sister
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Old 10-06-2019, 02:10 AM   #405
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Well they also were the first with air bags, the safety dash, seat belts across the entire line, etc.
And kinda the way GM was first with the modern electric car, they turned around and lobbied hard against the new technology once it wasn't turning out to be a raging sales success for themselves.

https://www.thoughtco.com/history-of-airbags-1991232
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Old 10-06-2019, 07:46 AM   #406
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2020 Corvette Reportedly Pipes Fake Engine Noise In Through Speakers

Contacted by Motor1.com, Chevrolet has issued a response: ďIf customers like how the seventh generation sounds, then they will love the sound of the LT2 engine in their 2020 Chevrolet Corvette Stingray. The car actually uses the exact same strategy and execution as all seventh-generation Corvettes, including the 2019 ZR1. Itís important to note, nothing coming out of the speakers would sound like an engine on its own. We rely on the engine for all of the audio content, but given the passby requirements and the multiple cavities between the exhaust tips and the driver, some frequencies are lost and need to be supplemented. This results in an engaging and visceral driving experience, as our seventh-generation owners can attest to.Ē

Weíre closing in on the three-month anniversary of the 2020 Chevy Corvette reveal from July. Weíve learned a lot about the car since Ė performance, price, standard and optional equipment. But weíre still discovering new features. Matt Farah of The Smoking Tire fame tweeted yesterday the new mid-engine Corvette pumps fake engine noise through the cabin speakers. Weíve reached out to Chevrolet about the feature and will update the story when we hear back.

Fake engine noise isnít new, and before you dive into the comments all angry, itís here to stay, too. Automakers pump fake engine sounds into the cabin to enhance the driving experience, allowing drivers to feel a bit more connected with their cars. Fake engine sounds also help brands such as Mercedes-AMG circumvent tightening sound regulations in Europe, which are already affecting new models. Fake engine sounds are also essential for electric vehicles. They can serve as a warning to pedestrians on the outside while providing in-car sound.

And itís not like the Corvette is a quiet slouch. The entry-level 2020 Corvette Stingray packs a naturally aspirated 6.2-liter V8 engine making 490 horsepower (365 kilowatts) and 460 pound-feet (623 Newton-meters) of torque. Add the Z51 package, which includes the performance exhaust, and both horsepower and torque jump by five. We even have audio of the Corvette starting, revving, and launching, and itís far from quiet. However, that could be different inside the cabin, which could be quite quiet and insulated from the exhaust note barking out the rear.

Fake engine noises are here to stay. Automakers enhancing the in-car driving experience by playing a fake exhaust note or other engine sounds aren't the most egregious features a car can have. As more and more cars move toward electrification, these sorts of sounds will likely become more common. Until then, weíll have to live with cars that fake their exhaust note inside. Itís not the end of the world.


https://twitter.com/TheSmokingTire/s...367439872?s=20
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Old 10-07-2019, 01:18 AM   #407
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TriAxis 6 View Post
All I can say is that when I switch the NPP exhaust into Track mode and all the pipes open up, itís heaven. I donít believe thereís anything piped into the cockpit of the Z06. Maybe Iím wrong. But all I hear is huge, delicious gobs of cammed out, pissed off at the world, see you bitches in 1320 growl! 🤪🤩
Have you switched out the intake with something like a Rotofab? If not you still have the pipe sound into cabin thingy, if you do you've deleted the piped in crap. Even cam'ed you'll get more sound but the harmonics are different so it's not at all what you'd expect with a high strung turbo 4.
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Old 10-07-2019, 01:30 PM   #408
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Originally Posted by AVANTI R5 View Post
Fake engine noises are here to stay. Automakers enhancing the in-car driving experience by playing a fake exhaust note or other engine sounds aren't the most egregious features a car can have. As more and more cars move toward electrification, these sorts of sounds will likely become more common. Until then, weíll have to live with cars that fake their exhaust note inside. Itís not the end of the world.
First thing I turned off in my car, and imo, vw does a decent job of implementation because it's a mechanical vibration of the windshield, not pumped through speakers. Pumping that through speakers is pretty ridiculous.
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Old 10-07-2019, 01:45 PM   #409
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Just to play devilís advocate here...if I turn off the sound system does the fake exhaust note still permeate the cockpit?
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Old 10-07-2019, 01:52 PM   #410
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Dude, Corvette guy went by this morning. WAKE UP PEOPLE! If Chevy insists there's lacking notes in the cockpit, I don't see how...perhaps deafness?
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Old 10-07-2019, 03:11 PM   #411
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Please, oh please, do not let fake engine noise generation deter people from festering all over this C8. I want it to be the most in demand Corvette ever produced.....so I can swoop in like a got damn condor, and pick up a 2017/2018 Z06 for 40 something k. Please let it happen so I can buy it, put an exhaust on it and make women and children cry at the sound of the blown LT4 producing 650 HP!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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Old 10-07-2019, 03:15 PM   #412
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Originally Posted by White out View Post
So many misrepresentations in this post. Could spend hours dis-proving all of them.

Also, the NSX was impressive but never anything but a cool looking car that performed mid-pack . . . kind of like how it was priced, well that is until the end of the run when it because obsolete, much like the current NSX.
I'm not sure if it's people with rose tinted glasses from that era, people who weren't around then or a combination of the two. But there seem to be quite a number of people who think the Japanese sports coupes and tarted up econoboxes from the 90s were almost mythically better than anything else at the time. While there were certainly some good cars and a push in the right direction, all of them has issues of one type or other.

The 300ZX and Supras were porky, and felt it. The Skylines were slightly less porky, but feedback was vague at best... plus they were expensive. NSX was expensive (although I have a soft spot in my heart for it). RX7 was not particularly reliable, especially when you modified it. STi and EVO never handled well, but were fun to drive.

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Old 10-07-2019, 03:29 PM   #413
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Originally Posted by 4S-TURBO View Post
perhaps deafness?
They say hearing and sight take a big dip around 40

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Originally Posted by brandon View Post
The 300ZX and Supras were porky, and felt it. The Skylines were slightly less porky, but feedback was vague at best... plus they were expensive.
Fair, but handling is easier to resolve with mods than engine durability issues. As they say, any suspension will work if you don't let it.
Also, GTRs were expensive, yes, but GSTs were cheaper.

Quote:
NSX was expensive (although I have a soft spot in my heart for it).
Cheaper and more reliable than any other supercar. It performed mid-pack against cars twice it's price. Like the r35 of it's time.

Quote:
RX7 was not particularly reliable, especially when you modified it.
On the contrary, going single turbo setup and deleting the metric ship ton vacuum lines vastly increased reliability. Similar to what works on a B4 A4 1.8t.

Quote:
STi and EVO never handled well, but were fun to drive.
I resent that XD. The evo was an excellent handling car for the time. AYC is a bomb way of fixing understeering innate in AWD cars. And both were stiff for the time period.

Handling doesn't have to FEEL good. That's my biggest gripe when people discuss it. Handling needs to be stiff, with good mechanical grip and tires. That's it. Damping is secondary for less-than-ideal conditions. 2" of travel is all that's really necessary for most tracks that don't suck ass.

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Originally Posted by White out View Post
So many misrepresentations in this post. Could spend hours dis-proving all of them.
I'd genuinely be curious, if you want to send me a PM. I promise I won't write back a 10 page essay. I'm just curious about other's perspectives. I see the 90s jap cars as better than anything america offered and better value than ze germans, while also offering better reliability than either, so long as you didn't get the top tier models with wonky garbage like 4 wheel steering.

Again, I can count on one-hand the number of cars taht I think are amazeballs value in the past two decades:

If I had to pick one from the 90s, I'd go rx7. Then the r35 gtr in 70k guise. Hopefully this vette will be the next and even MORE ridiculous than the GTR re-release.

Last edited by BeepBoop; 10-07-2019 at 03:43 PM.
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Old 10-07-2019, 04:14 PM   #414
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Originally Posted by TriAxis 6 View Post
Just to play devilís advocate here...if I turn off the sound system does the fake exhaust note still permeate the cockpit?
Most likely yes. It does on my M2.
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Old 10-07-2019, 06:10 PM   #415
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Originally Posted by BeepBoop View Post
As they say, any suspension will work if you don't let it.
That's one of the dumbest statements I've ever heard. You should immediately stop listening to whoever uttered it to you.

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Originally Posted by BeepBoop View Post
On the contrary, going single turbo setup and deleting the metric ship ton vacuum lines vastly increased reliability. Similar to what works on a B4 A4 1.8t.
You just proved my statement entirely. You had to modify it for it to be reliable. Or more specifically, had to know how to modify it after a substantial amount of research (before the time of good interweb forums) for it to be reliable.

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Originally Posted by BeepBoop View Post
I resent that XD. The evo was an excellent handling car for the time. AYC is a bomb way of fixing understeering innate in AWD cars. And both were stiff for the time period.
AYC did nothing for feedback. Both cars did not handle well, they were fast and fun to drive though. I frequently consider building myself a 2001 STi Wagon, just because I enjoyed my early Imprezas so much.

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Originally Posted by BeepBoop View Post
Handling doesn't have to FEEL good. That's my biggest gripe when people discuss it. Handling needs to be stiff, with good mechanical grip and tires. That's it. Damping is secondary for less-than-ideal conditions. 2" of travel is all that's really necessary for most tracks that don't suck ass.
Handling has EVERYTHING to do with feel. Most specifically reaction to and predictability of input, and then feedback from the result. Without feedback a car does not handle well, no mater how quickly it goes around corners. I believe you're referring to roadholding, which is an entirely different term.
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Old 10-07-2019, 10:05 PM   #416
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Old 10-07-2019, 10:56 PM   #417
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damn, read as ultra light rotating assembly!!!
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Old 10-07-2019, 10:58 PM   #418
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Originally Posted by brandon View Post
That's one of the dumbest statements I've ever heard. You should immediately stop listening to whoever uttered it to you.


You just proved my statement entirely. You had to modify it for it to be reliable. Or more specifically, had to know how to modify it after a substantial amount of research (before the time of good interweb forums) for it to be reliable.

AYC did nothing for feedback. Both cars did not handle well, they were fast and fun to drive though. I frequently consider building myself a 2001 STi Wagon, just because I enjoyed my early Imprezas so much.

Handling has EVERYTHING to do with feel. Most specifically reaction to and predictability of input, and then feedback from the result. Without feedback a car does not handle well, no mater how quickly it goes around corners. I believe you're referring to roadholding, which is an entirely different term.
This is some Sith lord level of magazine racing here. Impressive
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Old 10-07-2019, 11:51 PM   #419
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jump to 46 seconds
Sick! Super light flywheel - reminds me of a V10 in my garage - still think mine sounds better though...

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Old 10-07-2019, 11:56 PM   #420
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That's one of the dumbest statements I've ever heard. You should immediately stop listening to whoever uttered it to you.
It's the motto they used with the type r to set the record for fwd on nurburg. Doesn't matter what suspension setup you have. If it's stiff enough, it does it's job as far as performance goes.

Quote:
You just proved my statement entirely. You had to modify it for it to be reliable. Or more specifically, had to know how to modify it after a substantial amount of research (before the time of good interweb forums) for it to be reliable.
Reliable and more reliable are different. It was reliable enough in stock form. Certainly no more or less than any other one. Be careful with your wording and how you understand mine.

Quote:
AYC did nothing for feedback. Both cars did not handle well, they were fast and fun to drive though. I frequently consider building myself a 2001 STi Wagon, just because I enjoyed my early Imprezas so much.
Feedback isn't handling. Handling is handling. If you know your car well enough, you know the limits without it communicating them to you.

Quote:
Handling has EVERYTHING to do with feel. Most specifically reaction to and predictability of input, and then feedback from the result. Without feedback a car does not handle well, no mater how quickly it goes around corners. I believe you're referring to roadholding, which is an entirely different term.
1) no it doesn't. It has everything to do with keeping the car in contact of the ground. Whether or not I can feel that is irrelevant. If you're someone that needs a lot of reassurance you're approaching the limits, tires squealing before they break loose, the car letting you know every bump and spec you drive over through the steering column etc... cool. I have more faith and I know things by repeatedly losing control at the limit to know when to expect it as opposed to my car telling me.

2) I said it doesn't need to FEEL good. Not "it doesn't have to have good feel". Meaning it doesn't have to have a smooth ride that dampens anything to actually do it's job. It doesn't need to be comfortable or refined feeling. A go-kart has some of the best suspension out there IMO. Minimal travel and stiffness is all that is necessary unless you're doing something where that would blow the shocks out (rally). Stiffer chassis and suspension innately means stiffer and more responsive inputs and thus.. better feel for what the car is actually doing and faster reactions to your corrections.
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Old 10-08-2019, 10:48 AM   #421
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Feedback isn't handling. Handling is handling. If you know your car well enough, you know the limits without it communicating them to you.


1) no it doesn't. It has everything to do with keeping the car in contact of the ground. Whether or not I can feel that is irrelevant. If you're someone that needs a lot of reassurance you're approaching the limits, tires squealing before they break loose, the car letting you know every bump and spec you drive over through the steering column etc... cool. I have more faith and I know things by repeatedly losing control at the limit to know when to expect it as opposed to my car telling me.
Feedback is, and always has been, a major component of handling. Handling is not a term just used for automobiles. It is a term which was around long before the car, and always carries the same principles.

A Comedien who handles a crowd well isn't someone who can deliver a bunch of funny jokes quickly. They are someone who can read the reactions of the audience (feedback) and adapt thier pace, type of jokes, response to hecklers etc. There are very funny comediens who can't handle a croud.

A courier handles a package well isn't a company or person who just deliveras a package quickly. They are a group which takes a package, decides how to best get it to a location by looking at costs, weather, availbility/capacity of delivery vehicles etc. (feedback), to send the package. They then track the package (feedback) to ensure it doesn't get lost and let the reciver know when it might arrive.

A lawyer who handles cases well doesn't just use trial and error with the rule of law. They use case law and similar cases (feedback) to develop a plan, execute, and then adapt thier approach based on the other parties actions/approach (feedback).

A Football player who handles the football well doesn't just throw the ball a long way as quickly as they can to a predetermined spot. The QB throws the ball based on whether it is wet/dry (feedback), the positions of the players on the field (feedback), wind direction, visibility (more feedback). The Receiver catches the ball based on where they see it coming from, where defensive players are, and the feeing in thier hands/fingers as they catch the ball. How well do you think you could catch or throw without any feeling or sensation in your hands.

An Engineering/Project Manager (such as myself) who handles the project and staff well is someone wo creates a plan and then manages it through use project management tools, whether forecasts, availability of equipment/materials, peoples vacations, illnesses, strikes, opinions (all feedback) to adapt the plan in order to get the project done.

Even other vehicles use the same terminology. A plane doesn't handle well just becase it can pull high G forces. It needs to provide feedback through the controls in order for you to keep it in the sky. A boat which handles the waves well isn't just one which will stay afloat, it is one which provides feedback to the pilot/captain so they can ride out the storm safely.

Whether it is a situation or a vehicle, good handling requires feedback. Without the feedback it is impossible to adapt.


I seriously looked into buing my friend's Gen 3 RX7 Turbo in the early 2000s. I did a lot of reseach at the time, and can't remember all the details now. But what I do remember standing out was that there was a list of reliability mods for the car. In the 20 years prior to that which I'd been working on, modifying, and restoring vehicles I'd never heard of such a thing. I found it quite amusing at the time. The RX7 was a great car, and I kind of wish I had one now. But it was not overall distinctly more reliable than other non-Japanses cars of the time, which is what had been suggested here.

Sorry I misinterpreted your use of the word "feels" The terminology I am familiar with would be ride or ride quality.
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Old 10-08-2019, 10:52 AM   #422
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This is some Sith lord level of magazine racing here. Impressive
Not sure what I aggrevated you with here Scrappy. I respect your input to this forum greatly, so I'd love to know what you think I said was incorrect.

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Old 10-08-2019, 12:10 PM   #423
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do not take it personally man. It was meant in jest. But when describing what is everything in handing I feel that is a person choice and not set to a prescribed recipe as you seem to subscribe to. It just came off a bit "I know better" but perhaps I was reading it wrong...
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Old 10-08-2019, 01:44 PM   #424
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I've actually wondered about this for years, whether feedback is part of handling. I always figured that handling was more precise, though relative, while feedback was more subjective.
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Old 10-08-2019, 02:00 PM   #425
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Feedback aids input.
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