22b engine specs please

[Eric SS]

I know I should know this but I did a search and for some reason can't some up with anything! a couple of questions. Is the 22b block like all the other EJ22T blocks? What internals are they. same as Turbo Legacy? Heads? thank you. part numbers would be great also although I doubt I will ever find originals

Eric

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[bsquare]

No, it is not an EJ22T block, no it shares no internals with any Subaru ever sold in this country. Sorry, no part numbers on hand.

Is this the right forum for discussion of a turbo motor?


Ben

[Eric SS]

What would you know! you are only 3 numbers higher than me!!

[bsquare]

3 higher? Must be that new math

[Eric SS]

I know I suck at math but 1914-1911=3... I was talking about three number more senior.. I guess I should have been more specific

Eric

[bsquare]

Yah, just that makes my number 3 less, not more

[Eric SS]

So you are less than I am I guess

Eric

[North Ursalia]

This is all from memory, which could fail me, so bear with me . The 22B engine is an overbored 2.0 liter motor, retaining the same deck height and stroke as the 2.0, but uses larger lower compression pistons to eek out the extra HP. It has sodium filled valves, a forged crank, ceramic coated internals, and I believe oil squirters as well. I've got definte specs somewhere, but it's 4am here, I'm overtired, and I CAN'T GET TO SLEEP... ARGH!!!

Brian
http://www.northursalia.com
http://www.imprezamods.com
http://www.scoobymods.com
Ph33r me, for I am root

[Eric SS]

And a 2.2L is an underbored 2.5L right?

Eric

[bsquare]

The EJ22T closed deck vs the open deck EJ25, so it's a little more than just a different bore. The EJ22 might be an EJ25 with a smaller bore, but I don't know.


Ben

[wac]

You guys really meant to say that the EJ25 is an overbored and stroked EJ22, right? Think about which came first, the EJ22T (~1991), or EJ25 (~1995)?

So that makes the EJ20 an overbored EJ18, and the EJ22(B) is an ultrabored EJ18.

-WaC
Wayne

[omahasubaru]

This statement likely means nothing... but...

I remember hearing somewhere that the 22B engine is an EJ20T with EJ25 heads. Or atleast near that.

Just what I recollect.

Jon

[bill harvey]

ok the EJ22t specs are such. Bore x Stroke 96.9x75
displacement 2212

Ej20 us wrx: Bore X Stroke 92x75
disp. 1994

now the 22b did have a closed deck 2.2 i believe and i know subaru wouldn't reenvent the wheel because they never do, so most likely the block is the same as the ej22t block that we have or the ej22g to use the proper engine name.

the internals may or may not be the same don't say that the rods can't be the same because open a wrx motor even an sti and regular old 1.8 liter rods are staring you in the face conected to a regular old 1.8 crank. please don't ask for the part numbers but i do have them just a pain to write it all down. anyone know the static CR on a 22b?

[MY99 2.5GT]

I think the real question is: what is the bore/stroke and Compression Ratio of the American EJ22 turbo motor. I'd also like to know what kind of boost the 22b is running?

Brad

[bill harvey]

My post above is the usa ej22t motor

[MY99 2.5GT]

Reverse that:

What is the bore, stroke, compression, and boost level of the 22b motor?

Brad

[wac]

What is the bore, stroke, compression, and boost level of the 22b motor?

http://www.live2cruize.com/impreza_22b_eng.htm
http://www.lumine.net/driving/sportscar/sub_im_wrc.htm

Summary: the 22B has the same size bore, stroke, and compression ratio as the turbo EJ22 previously sold in the US. The question then, which Bill has pondered, is if the 22B motor is derived from the EJ22 or the EJ20/EJ18? Since the 22B is supposed to have no internal components in common with other Subaru's, there may be a clue in the cylinder heads. The EJ22 and EJ25 have the same cylinder/piston spacing, while the EJ18 and EJ20 share a different one. Does the 22B use an EJ25 DOHC, or an EJ20 DOHC head, or something unique?

-WaC
Wayne

[bill harvey]

I think that the short block is the same as our 22t perhaps they used different pistons but why bother unless they are "hypereutectic" i mean i know they aren't forged because the car would sound like a diesel. the hypereutectic pistons would be strong and quiet but they don't list it as a spec and i certainly would. I think the crank and rods are the same. mine oil squiters and so does the 22b also since and i know for a fact that the ej20t doesn't use upgraded rods or crank why would the 22b since you are dealing with just withstanding boost. boost pressure "without detination" doesn't stress rods much at all and they aren't running that many more rpm's than the ej20t and the rpm's is what tests rods. What i like about people is that they are habit forming creatures,even subaru motor designers and what i have learned is they use parts that are already there, they don't engineer anything if they already have something suitable on the shelf so why would this change with the 22b?

[mrbell]

hmm... y does forging pistons make it sound like a diesel? now if you made them out of iron, then I could understand...

PS: not arguing, just curious...

[bill harvey]

MrBell, forged pistons are louder because they expand more when hot than cast or hypereutetic pistons do so they cant be used with a tight tolerances so they fit loosely when cold so they move around and "slap" more causing the noise they quiet down when hot but are still often louder do to the looser fit. and don't worry you can argue if you would like

Oh i forgot i also don't think that it is an over bored 2.0 because the stroker kits that they make for the ej20 to get to a 2.2 they only overboar it .05 therefor they stroke it and they don't end up with as much displacement as the ej22g comes with so i don't think there is enough meterial to take away to gain the cc just by boring the ej20 so i would say it is not an old closed deck sti block bored out.

I am so glad that this post happened we used to have talks like this in our NESIC forum and i enjoyed them very much but now we have a bunch of idiots calling eachother names and making fun of texas, so i am starving for posts with content and intelligent exchanges of info.

[mrbell]

ahh... that makes sense... woohoo!
anyway, I don't think when they say it's an "over-bored EJ20" that they actually bore it out... that seems like it would add alot of unneccesary work... what they probably did was take the EJ20 design then, as simply as possible, make the cylinder's larger in diameter and build them from that spec... the internals are also probably standard STi parts from an RA(which may or may not be different from regular FHI parts), except of course for the pistons which would have to be made larger to fit the new bore...

[wac]

I don't think when they say it's an "over-bored EJ20" that they actually bore it out... that seems like it would add alot of unneccesary work...

You're probably right - there wouldn't be a lot of material left on the steel cylinder liners after an overboring process. But note that the EJ22G (as per Bill) has the exact same bore and stroke as the 22B motor.

The bore can easily be handled by simply using existing off-the-shelf EJ22G cylinder liners and casting a closed-deck block around them. Since making changes to sand casting molds is relatively easy, I don't think Subaru would hesitate to modify an older WRX closed-deck design to accomodate the larger cylinder liners. Then again, it would be even easier to use an off-the-shelf EJ22G block... Advantage - EJ22G block.

However, a 22B FAQ claims that the engine is in fact an overbored EJ20, in the classical sense:
http://www.22b.com/22bhistory.htm
Quote from the "Production Process" section: STi takes the engine and bores out the normal 2 litre lump to 2.2 litres.

The stroke can be handled through reusing either the EJ22G or EJ20/EJ18 crankshaft. The mainstream high-power Subaru engines were all EJ20-based, including the Impreza STi and Legacy B4 versions. They have a lot of experience with high-power, high-revving 2.0L motors. Meanwhile, the US market got a medium-performance EJ22 turbo. Advantage - EJ20 crankshaft.

The tie-breaker could possibly be the cylinder heads:
1. The EJ22G has always been SOHC, even in the Legacy Turbos.
2. There has been DOHC EJ25's from 1995 to 1998/1999.
3. There has been DOHC EJ20's from ~1992 to present.
4. The 22B was a 1998 special. Any bets on which DOHC head was used?

If anyone can just get up close to a 22B, it's as simple as measuring the centerline distance between spark plugs or fuel injectors. That would be solid proof of the 22B motor's heritage.

-WaC
Wayne

[bill harvey]

well the cranks are probablly the same since the stroke is the same, wouldn't you say so Wayne? heads i would guess that they are DOHC wrx heads with minor work done. love this post imagine if it was just a do another search post like most turn out to be..

[MY99 2.5GT]

I recall Subie-Gal drove one while over in Europe. Maybe she knows a little about what we are trying to figure out.

If not isn't there a dealership in the US that has one sitting in there showroom?

(Rabbit Trail Started)
A few months back I saw a set of EJ25 DOHC Variable Variable Intake Valve Timed Heads from a Forestor, (I think that where the selling said it came from). In the corner of my mind I am wondering how a set of those DOHC Variable Timed Heads would do on a Closed Deck EJ22 turbo block?

Brad

[mrbell]

As far as a dealership having one, I don't think so, but SOA is supposed to have one at their headquarters(I suppose this could be a dealership as well....), and someone on this board, I believe, either works there or was visiting... not sure who tho...
and for the 2.5L AVCS heads, someone brought this up. Trey Cobb said he had worked w/ these heads before and there is no real benefit. They supposedly don't flow any better than a regular EJ25 head, and they don't show any significant change in power output.
on the other hand tho, I'm curious about trying to fit some aftermarket cams and computer in this thing... of course, if you're going to this much trouble, it might be better to just go w/ some STi heads w/ AVCS which are supposed to be a much better setup