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Old 09-28-2020, 04:51 PM   #526
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Tada has said his team is paying attention to the demands for a manual transmission in the Supra, while giving various explanations about the difficulty of getting it done. He's mentioned packaging issues as the challenge to a transmission swap. He's said he had to consider the Toyota 86 - which does offer a manual - because he needed to clearly distinguish the 86 and Supra, one way of doing that being an automatic-only Supra. He's mentioned concern about tuners boosting power beyond the limits of a manual transmission. And he's mentioned a lack of time - that his engineers could add more power or do a manual, but not both simultaneously.
Whatever reason you want to use as to why the Supra did not get a manual transmission, the fact remains that the competition using a manual didn't persuade Toyota and BMW to try harder to offer one. That's my point.
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Old 09-28-2020, 05:32 PM   #527
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That's incorrect, they had issues with the amount of power and trans and continue to from the insiders at some Supra forums.
Do those rumors say BMW M-car transmissions stopped existing or something, because BMW's lineup doesn't exactly have a shortage of even more powerful engines that work with a manual?
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Old 09-28-2020, 05:46 PM   #528
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Yeah, I also agree that while MT was discussed, limited budget and overall demand for such a niche car in 2020 forced Toyota to offer only one transmission and abandon the other.

But at least they chose a great AT tranny that anyone can drive well on.
A lot of folks get turned off when they see MT-only... even Miata's are sold AT.. we'd think WTF on a Miata, but normal folks prefer it. My neighbor down the street has a ND Club, and hearing his exhaust, he sucks at shifting MT and should've got himself an AT one.
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Old 09-28-2020, 07:13 PM   #529
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My neighbor down the street has a ND Club, and hearing his exhaust, he sucks at shifting MT and should've got himself an AT one.
When exactly did being "good at something" become a prerequisite for being allowed to enjoy something?
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Old 09-28-2020, 09:08 PM   #530
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Old 09-28-2020, 09:36 PM   #531
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You can get an automatic STI?
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Old 09-28-2020, 09:38 PM   #532
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You can get an automatic STI?
Yes, the Levorg STI (just not in the USDM)
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Old 09-28-2020, 09:48 PM   #533
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Gotcha
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Old 09-28-2020, 11:30 PM   #534
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Old 09-29-2020, 04:55 AM   #535
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WRX S4 isn't an STI. It's a WRX with a CVT, which has been available stateside since Day 1. They just slapped a bunch of STI parts on it. It's basically a WRX S4 tS. Prior to 2015, Subaru only had the Impreza and STI. 2015 was the perfect time to slot in an exciting commuter.

I wouldn't be surprised if this next time around we got a CVT option for the STI.
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Old 09-29-2020, 06:56 AM   #536
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WRX S4 isn't an STI. It's a WRX with a CVT, which has been available stateside since Day 1. They just slapped a bunch of STI parts on it. It's basically a WRX S4 tS. Prior to 2015, Subaru only had the Impreza and STI. 2015 was the perfect time to slot in an exciting commuter.

I wouldn't be surprised if this next time around we got a CVT option for the STI.
if the supposed power figures for the STI, the cvt may not be capable of handling the torque figures
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Old 09-29-2020, 07:15 AM   #537
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if the supposed power figures for the STI, the cvt may not be capable of handling the torque figures
The CURRENT CVT may not be capable of handling the supposed torque figures... Unless it's a remixed/retuned Ascent HTCVT, which currently is able to tow 5k lbs.
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Old 09-29-2020, 08:35 AM   #538
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I forget where I saw this, but having a manual variant required all new testing of a vehicle for safety & emissions requirements which were well beyond the cost of simply building the car. Much more expensive to add a not-sought-after option and why so many manufacturers dropped them.
You're absolutely right. When they make an MT variant, its basically a different car even if it's the same model. That requires all sorts of testing and that means $$$.
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Old 09-29-2020, 08:41 AM   #539
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I thought the S4 was available in the US. This is the second time the USDM has received a better STI than JDM (2004 was the last time).

But since the S4 happened, it's inevitable here.
Better STI than JDM STI...really? At no point has the USDM STI been better than the JDM STI. The overall package of the JDM STI has always been better. Now the USDM 2004 STI was amazing, but the JDM Spec C STI had the same parts as the USDM STI, which is how the USDM STI received them. The EJ257 was not better than the EJ207 and has never been better.

Hell Vermont sports car doesn't even use the EJ257 in the Subaru Rally USA cars it is the EJ207. They initially used the EJ257, but then they got access to the EJ207.
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Old 09-29-2020, 09:54 AM   #540
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The CURRENT CVT may not be capable of handling the supposed torque figures... Unless it's a remixed/retuned Ascent HTCVT, which currently is able to tow 5k lbs.
supposedly the HTCVT is only capable of 295ft lbs of torque. not enough for the expected torque figures of the STI
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Old 09-29-2020, 10:51 AM   #541
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supposedly the HTCVT is only capable of 295ft lbs of torque. not enough for the expected torque figures of the STI
After having owned a bunch of Mustangs where the manual transmission was basically maxed out at the stock power level (BW T5 and T45), I'd never own another car without some serious safety factor built into the driveline. Hopefully they either up that CVT's capability or leave it on the shelf.
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Old 09-29-2020, 11:20 AM   #542
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After having owned a bunch of Mustangs where the manual transmission was basically maxed out at the stock power level (BW T5 and T45), I'd never own another car without some serious safety factor built into the driveline. Hopefully they either up that CVT's capability or leave it on the shelf.
this will not happen anymore in our timeline, so I am pretty sure that you will be sol
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Old 09-29-2020, 01:31 PM   #543
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this will not happen anymore in our timeline, so I am pretty sure that you will be sol
I miss the days of over-engineered parts with some actual headroom. I remember our little focus RS fancy powertrain inside source telling nasioc that he was shocked ford maxed the unit out to 100% of it's max duty they rated it to 100k miles for. He had said no one ever before had done that. The industry standard until then had typically been 80% of max duty.

I really hope you're wrong, but something tells me you're not.
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Old 09-29-2020, 02:30 PM   #544
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News about the Supra, supposedly a few tuners and Titan Motorsports in FLA might have already been able to crack the new A91 ECU's
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Old 09-30-2020, 07:58 AM   #545
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Default This Toyota Supra Mule Could Be Spitting The Tune Of The BMW M3's S58 Inline-Six

This Toyota Supra Mule Could Be Spitting The Tune Of The BMW M3's S58 Inline-Six


Toyota revived the Supra in 2019 after a 17-year hiatus and opted to use two BMW-sourced engines. The Supra is available with a 2.0-liter four-cylinder with up to 255 horsepower and a 3.0-liter inline-six rated at up to 382 horsepower, both shared with a big variety of BMW models, including the 3 and 4 Series, the X5, and the Z4.

The top 382-horsepower engine, shared with M-badged Bimmers, was recently added for the 2021 model year, but word has it that Toyota wants an even more powerful mill. The folks over at Statesidesupercar released a video showing a Supra being driven hard on the Nurburgring, suggesting that this mule might feature the beefed-up inline-six engine from the newly launched BMW M3 and M4.

This Toyota Supra Mule Could Be Spitting the Tune of The BMW M3's S58 Inline-Six

The test car looks identical to the standard Supra, so there are no visual hints that Toyota is testing a higher performance model.

This leaves the exhaust note as the only factor that could
make a difference. Weíve already seen the BMW M4 charge on the íRing and we know that the S58 inline-six is very noisy compared to the regular B58 engine it is based on.

While this Supra sounds pretty mean, the exhaust note isnít as aggressive as the new M3 and M4. Whatís more, Supra owners also argue that the test car is most likely fitted with the B85 rather than the S58 mill. But this doesnít necessarily mean that Toyota wonít build an S58-powered Supra in the future.

WHAT MAKES THE S58 ENGINE SPECIAL?

The S58 is a heavily upgraded version of the B58, developed specifically for high-performance BMWs.

The S58, a replacement for the old S55, debuted in 2019 in the X3 M and X4 M crossovers.

A more powerful version debuted in the Competition variants of the SUVs the same year. Come 2020 and the S58 found its way into the M3 and M4, while the beefed-up variant pumps the extra oomph into the Competition models.

How powerful is the S58? Well, the base version cranks out 473 horsepower and 405 pound-feet of torque. Thatís enough to make the M3 and M4 the most powerful ever except for the track-ready M4 GTS. But the beefed-up version delivers a solid 503 horsepower and 479 pound-feet of twist, more than any other M3 or M4 built to date, regardless of specification or limited-edition status.

Should Toyota use the M3ís inline-six engine in the Supra, we will end up with a range-topping model thatís notably more powerful than the 2021 version. Even if its uses the base S58, it will deliver an extra 91 horsepower over the existing six-cylinder Supra. A Japanese coupe with M3 Competition power will mean an extra 121 horses and a tremendous amount of output for the Supra, more than any other production model to date. It will also make it the most powerful Toyota ever produced.

On the other hand, it will also be notably more expensive. The four-cylinder Supra starts from $42,990 and the inline-six model retails from $50,990. This means that the S58-fitted Supra will fetch in excess of $65,000, but it could also hit the $70,000 mark depending on all of the aero extras it might get.

For now, thereís no confirmation that an S58 Supra is underway, but it could happen.

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Old 09-30-2020, 08:45 AM   #546
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That's cool.. The B58 is already too powerful for me with a tune on street in the hours I drive my car, but I'd be interested in looking at what they do with the aero bits.
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Old 09-30-2020, 09:41 AM   #547
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It's not an S58 for gods sake, I can't believe so many stupid websites are saying its that or a new engine.
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Old 10-01-2020, 09:18 AM   #548
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When exactly did being "good at something" become a prerequisite for being allowed to enjoy something?
Youíre right, we can all use the comedy. Go for it.
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Old 10-01-2020, 09:19 AM   #549
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It's not an S58 for gods sake, I can't believe so many stupid websites are saying its that or a new engine.
Hummmm.. oh well. You can tell this how?
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Old 10-01-2020, 10:34 AM   #550
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S58 won't make it into the Supra. M division simply would not allow it. Furthermore, why would BMW source out their top spec M3/4 engine to Toyota while continuing to provide the M2 with a S55?

The cost, assuming BMW / M division would even allow it, would push the Supra out of most buyers price range.
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