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Old 12-09-2021, 02:02 PM   #3726
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I didn't realize climate control was such a topic. I never use the auto and usually just keep it around a cool temp for freeway driving. Surface streets I'm windows down (unless wifey because hair )

I'm amazed that there are people who have never rolled their windows down. In one of of my previous jobs, I had a citizen pull up to me in a newer car to ask a question. She elected to open her door 4 inches and tried to talk through the crack. I asked her to roll the window down so I could hear her better, she replied that she didn't know how to roll it down and had never done it before
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Old 12-09-2021, 02:09 PM   #3727
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dex View Post
I'm amazed that there are people who have never rolled their windows down. In one of of my previous jobs, I had a citizen pull up to me in a newer car to ask a question. She elected to open her door 4 inches and tried to talk through the crack. I asked her to roll the window down so I could hear her better, she replied that she didn't know how to roll it down and had never done it before
I never roll the windows down due to bad allergies, especially around here. Temps are usually way too hot for 6mos of the year too. Never owned a motorcycle either due to either of those. Hate sunroofs too.

My interiors stay perfectly clean because of it, especially since eating in the car and another other than water is strictly banned in the vehicles at my household
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Old 12-09-2021, 02:17 PM   #3728
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Originally Posted by Kostamojen View Post
I never roll the windows down due to bad allergies, especially around here. Temps are usually way too hot for 6mos of the year too. Never owned a motorcycle either due to either of those. Hate sunroofs too.

My interiors stay perfectly clean because of it, especially since eating in the car and another other than water is strictly banned in the vehicles at my household
I have a food ban as well, however there is a road trip sub clause that Wife Esq. had written in. And now that it's my surf wagon, it's pretty much impossible to keep the interior as clean as I used to. Bummer, but if I get a BRZ/86 as a stable mate, it will be the the super clean interior car.
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Old 12-09-2021, 02:35 PM   #3729
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I have a food ban as well, however there is a road trip sub clause that Wife Esq. had written in.
LMAO, have the same rules. And had to apply same rules in the HT after a friend of mine spilled a canned beer in one of my expensive movie recliners. I bought sippy type cups for the HT and water only. It pisses people off

Road trip, I'm allowed to eat something like a sub sandwich with no lettuce or anything that would fall everywhere. Next refuel I drop some quarters for the vacuum. Nobody else is allowed to eat in the vehicles though

I go surfing twice a year (Maui) and even in the rental car I rent from a local spot (old POS cars), same deal. Whether I need a wetsuit or not, I rinse, dry and change before back in the vehicle.
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Old 12-09-2021, 04:40 PM   #3730
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"Loaded with raw power..."

~2022 WRX
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Old 12-09-2021, 06:38 PM   #3731
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Originally Posted by 4S-TURBO View Post
"Loaded with LOVE power..."

~2022 WRX
HELLZ YEAH!

I hear people who love this car have already put deposit down at their dealer. Right Straight6?
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Old 12-09-2021, 06:39 PM   #3732
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Climate control is always my first concern when buying a "sports" car. Second is always practicality.
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Old 12-09-2021, 09:52 PM   #3733
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LOL @ the auto-climate control rants.

Auto climate control works.. for gentle climates.
Summertime interior T are comfy at 22-23C /71-74F because the driver wears one or two layers.
Wintertime interior T are comfy at 18-20C /64-68F because, coming from outside, everyone and their dog has an onion-layered stack of clothing, or at least a warm jacket.

Initial "auto" setting with the car sitting at -20C blows minimal air (before the engine really warms up), then directs it all at your feet so as to warm up the car from the bottom up. Works really well... on powerpoint. In real life, when I get inside the car, it fogs up/frosts just from breathing. i need sustained airflow towards the windshield, even with the car cold, to prevent body evaporation from condensing on the cold glass.

Finally, the all-electronic screen control sucks (IMHO). Tested it on the Legacy. Loses responsivity at such cold temperatures, and difficult to operate in gloves. Moreover, it requires glancing downwards, further distracting from driving. Physical buttwarmer and climate control buttons and knobs can be operated with a finger's touch, in gloves, without looking at them.

I do think 11.6-12" touchscreen layout looks fabulous (WAY better than the concept of shoving a tablet in the middle of the dashboard). ALso, the 2ndary display, currently on top of the dashboard centre in most Subie models, is excellent for quick info checking (including climate controls) while still keeping the road in your peripheral vision, also because of its position (futher out on the dash, thus less ocular defocusing). Sad to see it gone.

IMHO, they've pushed it too far with all-digital controls. What will they do next, shove an infrared sensor up my arse to control an "autobutt" fryer setting?

Finally, a long-time owner's perspective: these screens scratch AF and can be accidentally broken/cracked. Now they become the single point of failure for too many systems. Losing audio and a rear camera is annoying but not critical, you can drive for a week/weeks before getting it repaired or before a new unit comes from Ebay. Losing climate control can be critical (defogging/defrosting/AC), and would require me to get a rental tomorrow.

My two (Canadian) cents.


Last edited by Bluefoton; 12-09-2021 at 10:01 PM.
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Old 12-09-2021, 10:46 PM   #3734
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Originally Posted by Bluefoton View Post
LOL @ the auto-climate control rants.

Auto climate control works.. for gentle climates.
Summertime interior T are comfy at 22-23C /71-74F because the driver wears one or two layers.
Wintertime interior T are comfy at 18-20C /64-68F because, coming from outside, everyone and their dog has an onion-layered stack of clothing, or at least a warm jacket.

Initial "auto" setting with the car sitting at -20C blows minimal air (before the engine really warms up), then directs it all at your feet so as to warm up the car from the bottom up. Works really well... on powerpoint. In real life, when I get inside the car, it fogs up/frosts just from breathing. i need sustained airflow towards the windshield, even with the car cold, to prevent body evaporation from condensing on the cold glass.

Finally, the all-electronic screen control sucks (IMHO). Tested it on the Legacy. Loses responsivity at such cold temperatures, and difficult to operate in gloves. Moreover, it requires glancing downwards, further distracting from driving. Physical buttwarmer and climate control buttons and knobs can be operated with a finger's touch, in gloves, without looking at them.

I do think 11.6-12" touchscreen layout looks fabulous (WAY better than the concept of shoving a tablet in the middle of the dashboard). ALso, the 2ndary display, currently on top of the dashboard centre in most Subie models, is excellent for quick info checking (including climate controls) while still keeping the road in your peripheral vision, also because of its position (futher out on the dash, thus less ocular defocusing). Sad to see it gone.

IMHO, they've pushed it too far with all-digital controls. What will they do next, shove an infrared sensor up my arse to control an "autobutt" fryer setting?

Finally, a long-time owner's perspective: these screens scratch AF and can be accidentally broken/cracked. Now they become the single point of failure for too many systems. Losing audio and a rear camera is annoying but not critical, you can drive for a week/weeks before getting it repaired or before a new unit comes from Ebay. Losing climate control can be critical (defogging/defrosting/AC), and would require me to get a rental tomorrow.

My two (Canadian) cents.




When you tested it, did you not see the physical controls for temp/defrost/audio? It's not ALL electric. And besides the point of a failed screen.....yes that's bad/costly.....you still have those physical buttons for temp control and wait, how many times have I said this now?........voice control


Overall, I understand the dislike for them and I have seen older units in bad shape; but, also just fine. The 11.6 hasn't been out long enough to see if any improvements in longevity have been made. I'm just more against the "its unsafe". When it's not.
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Old 12-10-2021, 12:04 AM   #3735
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JustyWRC View Post
When you tested it, did you not see the physical controls for temp/defrost/audio? It's not ALL electric. And besides the point of a failed screen.....yes that's bad/costly.....you still have those physical buttons for temp control and wait, how many times have I said this now?........voice control
I'm curious how many people actually use voice control in their cars? I only use mine to make phone calls. I guess the Alexa/Echo market probably use it a fair bit. Yet again I see people in new cars still holding phones to their ears like it's 2002, so....
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Old 12-10-2021, 12:12 AM   #3736
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Alexa, how did the added displacement in my 2022 WRX lose me 18 lb ft of torque over my 2021 WRX?
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Old 12-10-2021, 01:15 AM   #3737
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I'm curious how many people actually use voice control in their cars? I only use mine to make phone calls. I guess the Alexa/Echo market probably use it a fair bit. Yet again I see people in new cars still holding phones to their ears like it's 2002, so....
Only a handful of people over the age of 50 do, and more than you would think under that age never do as well. Its still a relatively recent technology and certainly personality types never will regardless.

Quick search revealed a recent poll, still looking for one in regards to automobiles:

https://www.androidauthority.com/voi...sults-1216927/

Last edited by Kostamojen; 12-10-2021 at 01:21 AM.
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Old 12-10-2021, 02:58 AM   #3738
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I'm hoping this thread will get bad enough that reading it is more painful than funny, so I can stop checking it.

The climate control stuff has juuuust about gotten it there.
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Old 12-10-2021, 07:15 AM   #3739
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Alexa, how did the added displacement in my 2022 WRX lose me 18 lb ft of torque over my 2021 WRX?
Different tuning. 2.4 in the BRZ makes a lot more power vs the outgoing 2.0 than what the numbers would suggest. Peak numbers don't tell the whole story. I am hoping that is the same case with the WRX. Every drive along I came across says that the cars feels faster and pulls stronger than the outgoing model.
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Old 12-10-2021, 07:33 AM   #3740
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Alexa, how did the added displacement in my 2022 WRX lose me 18 lb ft of torque over my 2021 WRX?
It didn't.

The 2022 with the 2.4L has the same peak torque that the 2021 with the 2.0L does. If you look at the torque curves, there is "more area under the curve" in the 2.4L compared to the 2.0L; it makes more torque earlier and holds more torque longer in the rev range.

I don't like the new WRX, I mean I didn't like the VA either, but at least get the info straight.
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Old 12-10-2021, 09:46 AM   #3741
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dex View Post
I'm curious how many people actually use voice control in their cars? I only use mine to make phone calls. I guess the Alexa/Echo market probably use it a fair bit. Yet again I see people in new cars still holding phones to their ears like it's 2002, so....
when I want google to have spotify play a different playlist? every time.

if I need navigation somewhere and I am already moving? every time.

the second is less frequent, because damnit, I'm a guy and I don't need directions!

anyway, since android auto is always on, I use voice controls to interact with it frequently.
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Old 12-10-2021, 10:26 AM   #3742
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It didn't.

The 2022 with the 2.4L has the same peak torque that the 2021 with the 2.0L does. If you look at the torque curves, there is "more area under the curve" in the 2.4L compared to the 2.0L; it makes more torque earlier and holds more torque longer in the rev range.

I don't like the new WRX, I mean I didn't like the VA either, but at least get the info straight.
I'm not quite so sure that's true either. I've been crunching the numbers using basic math and it doesn't add up to anything meaningful in my opinion.

The 2.0 WRX revs to 6700 RPM with 268 HP @5600 RPM and 258 LB-FT from 2000-5200 RPM.

The 2.4 WRX revs to 6100 RPM with 271 HP @5600 RPM and 258 LB-FT from 2000-5200 RPM.

Three Horsepower at the same RPM is negligible and within margin of error on a dyno. If the 2.4L engine's peak power is at 5600 RPM, then that only means torque is falling off so quickly after 5600 that the horsepower is not increasing or staying flat past 5600 RPM (this goes for any engine).

I realize this is nothing new to 2.0L WRX owners, but in my opinion, the new 2.4L WRX will have largely the same in-gear power delivery as the outgoing car due to Subaru's own posted numbers telling us it will. But there could be a few minor enhancements that may make the car feel quicker. In my opinion, the real advantage will be in the gearing, so long as Subaru optimizes it for 6100 RPM as opposed to 6700 like in the outgoing WRX.

My take on this is that the 2 engines actually perform just about the same, except Subaru realized the extra 600 RPM wasn't doing anything to benefit the outgoing 2.0 since the torque drop off is so massive. So instead of optimizing the last 600 RPM of redline, they lowered it and I would only hope they revised the gearing to work for a 6100 RPM redline. Gearing for 6100 RPM would make a noticeable difference in acceleration versus a short shifted 2.0L. This would also prove even more beneficial with aftermarket tunes naturally being higher RPM oriented since the torque peaks are technically closer to redline, which is where you want the torque to be during full throttle pulls.

So while I don't agree with the more area under the curve thing, if you cut out 600RPM of the curve and revise the gearing accordingly, yes, it's a much better torque curve.
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Old 12-10-2021, 10:43 AM   #3743
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Originally Posted by ntg44 View Post

I realize this is nothing new to 2.0L WRX owners, but in my opinion, the new 2.4L WRX will have largely the same in-gear power delivery as the outgoing car due to Subaru's own posted numbers telling us it will. But there could be a few minor enhancements that may make the car feel quicker. In my opinion, the real advantage will be in the gearing, so long as Subaru optimizes it for 6100 RPM as opposed to 6700 like in the outgoing WRX.

My take on this is that the 2 engines actually perform just about the same, except Subaru realized the extra 600 RPM wasn't doing anything to benefit the outgoing 2.0 since the torque drop off is so massive. So instead of optimizing the last 600 RPM of redline, they lowered it and I would only hope they revised the gearing to work for a 6100 RPM redline. Gearing for 6100 RPM would make a noticeable difference in acceleration versus a short shifted 2.0L. This would also prove even more beneficial with aftermarket tunes naturally being higher RPM oriented since the torque peaks are technically closer to redline, which is where you want the torque to be during full throttle pulls.

So while I don't agree with the more area under the curve thing, if you cut out 600RPM of the curve and revise the gearing accordingly, yes, it's a much better torque curve.
Are you asking for shorter ratios, or longer ratios? Usually a lower redline will have a manufacturer install longer ratios.

Edit: Another advantage to the 2.4L is it should have better off-boost response.
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Old 12-10-2021, 11:04 AM   #3744
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An advantage to publishing lower power ratings is that everyone will be ok with them. Because Subaru.
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Old 12-10-2021, 11:11 AM   #3745
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I'm not quite so sure that's true either. I've been crunching the numbers using basic math and it doesn't add up to anything meaningful in my opinion.

The 2.0 WRX revs to 6700 RPM with 268 HP @5600 RPM and 258 LB-FT from 2000-5200 RPM.

The 2.4 WRX revs to 6100 RPM with 271 HP @5600 RPM and 258 LB-FT from 2000-5200 RPM.

Three Horsepower at the same RPM is negligible and within margin of error on a dyno. If the 2.4L engine's peak power is at 5600 RPM, then that only means torque is falling off so quickly after 5600 that the horsepower is not increasing or staying flat past 5600 RPM (this goes for any engine).

I realize this is nothing new to 2.0L WRX owners, but in my opinion, the new 2.4L WRX will have largely the same in-gear power delivery as the outgoing car due to Subaru's own posted numbers telling us it will. But there could be a few minor enhancements that may make the car feel quicker. In my opinion, the real advantage will be in the gearing, so long as Subaru optimizes it for 6100 RPM as opposed to 6700 like in the outgoing WRX.

My take on this is that the 2 engines actually perform just about the same, except Subaru realized the extra 600 RPM wasn't doing anything to benefit the outgoing 2.0 since the torque drop off is so massive. So instead of optimizing the last 600 RPM of redline, they lowered it and I would only hope they revised the gearing to work for a 6100 RPM redline. Gearing for 6100 RPM would make a noticeable difference in acceleration versus a short shifted 2.0L. This would also prove even more beneficial with aftermarket tunes naturally being higher RPM oriented since the torque peaks are technically closer to redline, which is where you want the torque to be during full throttle pulls.

So while I don't agree with the more area under the curve thing, if you cut out 600RPM of the curve and revise the gearing accordingly, yes, it's a much better torque curve.
What makes your think the FA24 revs to 6,100 RPM ? The peak HP for both engines is 5,600 RPM....If we are going by the "redline" indicated on the tach, then I guess my GLI (or the GTI for that matter) revs to 6,000 RPM Or do you actually know what the fuel cut is on the 2022 WRX and stating that it is 6,100 RPM ? Do you have a dyno of the 2022 WRX vs 2021 ?
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Old 12-10-2021, 11:21 AM   #3746
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6K redline, peak power at 4,700 RPM...Nobody ever complained. Subaru posts a photo of 6,100 RPM redline but Subaru bad.

Just wait until you see what is regarded as the best entry level sports sedan on the market today shows on in its tach and revs to:


Last edited by Straight6; 12-10-2021 at 11:29 AM.
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Old 12-10-2021, 11:41 AM   #3747
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What makes your think the FA24 revs to 6,100 RPM ? The peak HP for both engines is 5,600 RPM....If we are going by the "redline" indicated on the tach, then I guess my GLI (or the GTI for that matter) revs to 6,000 RPM Or do you actually know what the fuel cut is on the 2022 WRX and stating that it is 6,100 RPM ? Do you have a dyno of the 2022 WRX vs 2021 ?
My last WRX and my current STI have a solid red bar on the tach at redline. Why is it so ridiculous to speculate that the 6100 RPM solid bar on the 2022 WRX tach will mean anything different? Any car I've ever owned had factory redline where the solid bar on the tach is shown. The fact that your GLI is different is meaningless to me. It's not a Subaru and it's not how any of the cars I've owned for the past 20+ years were. That's kind of the point of putting the solid red line on the tach - to indicate redline.

No, I don't know what the official redline is. No, I don't have a dyno sheet of the 2022 WRX vs. the 2021. But we all have Subaru's official stated numbers, and they're basically the same as the 2.0L as provided by Subaru. Unless you're going to argue next that +3 HP isn't basically the same, then I'm really wasting my time.

I was only trying to point out that technically speaking, a really simple way to take advantage of the HP and torque curve would be to lower the redline to 6100 RPM and revise the gearing such that you're in the meat of it at full throttle. And then all of a sudden it makes sense why Subaru would say the new engine has a "fat" torque curve - because it would in this case. But it's not from the engine producing a bunch more torque, it's from the gearing keeping the engine in it's highest output range during acceleration, rather than dying off like the FA20 did.
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Old 12-10-2021, 11:45 AM   #3748
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6K redline, peak power at 4,700 RPM...Nobody ever complained. Subaru posts a photo of 6,100 RPM redline but Subaru bad.

Just wait until you see what is regarded as the best entry level sports sedan on the market today shows on in its tach and revs to:

How is an afla Romeo Guilia an entry level sports sedan?
Perhaps it is regarded as best because it is achingly beautiful. Not a frankentrek lifted sedan with a hemorrhoid: Defined as a swollen vein or bunch of veins around the anus.
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Old 12-10-2021, 11:50 AM   #3749
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The redline in my WRX was 6,700 RPM. The engine was all but done by 6,500 RPM. We don't know the fuel cut on the 2022 or how well it will hold power or how much more power it makes vs FA20.
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Old 12-10-2021, 11:54 AM   #3750
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The redline in my WRX was 6,700 RPM. The engine was all but done by 6,500 RPM. We don't know the fuel cut on the 2022 or how well it will hold power or how much more power it makes vs FA20.
well this is all completely true.

but revving to fuel cut is not typically smart, but your point is totally valid
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