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Old 01-13-2022, 08:25 PM   #4651
mcarb002
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The Tokyo Auto show is already on. Subaru doesnít have their cars up yet?
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Old 01-13-2022, 08:38 PM   #4652
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I loathe the Panamera. GET THAT SHIIII OUTTA HEA
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Old 01-13-2022, 08:40 PM   #4653
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No you aaahhhhrr
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Old 01-13-2022, 10:37 PM   #4654
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Originally Posted by chanomatik View Post
No no no, they deliberately went against science of textures. Roof boxes were a priority.




Such an ignorant company.
Jesus... that's a lot of tail light.
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Old 01-13-2022, 11:22 PM   #4655
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Originally Posted by 4S-TURBO View Post
The WRX is just getting unfairly judged because it's a sedan.



Where is the barf emoji. This site could use a good barf emoji. Because that Forester is hideous. What a mess. Likely a great selling mess, but a mess nonetheless.
WTF is that, is that real?
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Old 01-14-2022, 02:57 AM   #4656
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Old 01-14-2022, 03:46 AM   #4657
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When you don't focus on or notice the fender flares, the car actually looks really good. Again, Subaru is showing it off in Dark Gray because it hides the flares so well. Such a shame they screwed it up so badly.

Looks like part of the front bumper is painted too? Or is that just the lighting?

*zooms in*

Yeah, still plastic. Got my hopes up for nothin'!
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Old 01-14-2022, 06:20 AM   #4658
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Isn't it counter productive for Subaru to put painted lips and skirt pieces under unpainted plastic?
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Old 01-14-2022, 07:08 AM   #4659
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Snow Drift View Post
The only Eagle we should emulate:

Crankwalk? LOL

Quote:
Originally Posted by SoDealer View Post
Subaru almost went bankrupt in the mid 2000's making all of the cars enthusiasts would have them make
Until SoDealer provides the proof to this... , everyone should simply respond "Got proof to back up your 'almost bankrupt in 2000's' post?" any time he posts in this thread.

Still haven't seen it yet, and I'm not going to let it pass until he does.

--kC
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Old 01-14-2022, 07:14 AM   #4660
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Is it so hard to believe? Even the larger manufacturers cut back on offering turbo manual vehicles. A small company like Subaru that spread themselves thin offering something so niche seems like a recipe for trouble.
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Old 01-14-2022, 07:25 AM   #4661
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Originally Posted by ultrashin View Post
According to car enthusiasts on the internet, "automatics are for disabled drivers and only real men drives manual. All CVTs are **** and should never exist."

I got a manual miata because of that, so my wife divorced me. Perfect
If Subaru can get a CVT to act like a smoother DSG, all the more power to them. They are close to that, I think. My CVT (yes, I have one) in my '17 Impreza Sport is faster 0-60, 0-100, 5-60 than the same car with the MT.

And about the miata, you kinda brought that on yourself, coming out like that. You basically TOLD her to leave? (j/k)

--kC
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Old 01-14-2022, 07:31 AM   #4662
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chanomatik View Post
Is it so hard to believe? Even the larger manufacturers cut back on offering turbo manual vehicles. A small company like Subaru that spread themselves thin offering something so niche seems like a recipe for trouble.
1) How long does it take to make and prototype safety systems so if/when the gov't mandates things (via a planned roadmap of course, i.e. 'by 2024 we want...') they are ready that year? So, knowing the production/inclusion of safety systems roadmap/planning, they remove MT offerings to meet those mandates.

2) And, companies like Subaru, where 'safety' is the essence of their brand they sprinkle around everywhere, having cars (MTs) without such systems reduce their overall numbers in crash data, meaning they can't flaunt them, as much. It's about making sales through marketing safety.

--kC
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Old 01-14-2022, 07:35 AM   #4663
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Jesus... that's a lot of tail light.


--kC
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Old 01-14-2022, 08:21 AM   #4664
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So, TAS shows up and all concepts, no announcement of new actual WRX/STi.

Nothingburger.

--kC
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Old 01-14-2022, 08:36 AM   #4665
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KC View Post
If Subaru can get a CVT to act like a smoother DSG, all the more power to them. They are close to that, I think. My CVT (yes, I have one) in my '17 Impreza Sport is faster 0-60, 0-100, 5-60 than the same car with the MT.
--kC
Have you seen this from Jason Cammisa. It's not the manuals fault it is slower. The manufacturer is wanting manuals to lose.

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Old 01-14-2022, 08:52 AM   #4666
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nashcarr View Post
I can only imagine what all that black plastic will look like in a few years.
this is super easy, go find a 5 year old Crosstrek, it's not like they've changed the formula.

Quote:
Originally Posted by kayen View Post
Have you seen this from Jason Cammisa. It's not the manuals fault it is slower. The manufacturer is wanting manuals to lose.
this is such a false narrative.

with computers controlling things, an automatic can shift in milliseconds. some faster, some slower. the VW DSG can shift in 200 MS.

the fastest a human can clutch in, slot gear, clutch out is going to be anywhere from 500 MS to a full second.

everything else being completely equal, gear ratios, number of gears, the DSG equipped car is going to be faster to 60.

sure it is designed this way, but they don't design it with the plan of killing the manual, they design it this way because people want performance without a traditional clutch pedal and gear shift stick, and the technology allows them to design it this way.

regardless if the transmission doing the shift has a planetary set, or a layshaft, a manually operated clutch transmission will be slower, and it isn't some edict that it is so. humans are slow, automation is fast.

these days have been coming for over 30 years.

Last edited by samagon; 01-14-2022 at 09:09 AM.
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Old 01-14-2022, 09:04 AM   #4667
mcarb002
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It seems that was just a WRX S4 with the STI parts at the Tokyo show. That wing is fighting for a ton of real estate on that tiny trunk lid.
I wonder how big the actual STI wing is going to be. Also, what car show this year would the STI be revealed at?
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Old 01-14-2022, 09:08 AM   #4668
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Originally Posted by KC View Post
Until SoDealer provides the proof to this... , everyone should simply respond "Got proof to back up your 'almost bankrupt in 2000's' post?" any time he posts in this thread.

Still haven't seen it yet, and I'm not going to let it pass until he does.

--kC
Posted about this ad nauseam over the years including from FHI's financials. You can keep up or do your own work at this point.
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Old 01-14-2022, 09:26 AM   #4669
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Originally Posted by nashcarr View Post
You won't. I have a Supra 2.0 and in Sport Mode is has aggressive shifting, it even aggressively downshifts. I love it. That being said, I have a Miata and a newer Mazda 6 to row the gears in when I feel the need. I have no regrets w the ZF8, none.
Yea paddles are going to help. I've driven the BMW X3 version and the Alfa Romeo Giulia (which I have ordered). I just love rowing.

Quote:
Originally Posted by JRodrigues View Post
Tokyo Pics
This, in the right lighting, and with the STI bits, looks great. Here's to hoping 2023 or 2024 gets a refresh that fixes the rear bumper and paints the fenders/skirts.
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Old 01-14-2022, 09:28 AM   #4670
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Originally Posted by SoDealer View Post
Posted about this ad nauseam over the years including from FHI's financials. You can keep up or do your own work at this point.
If you make a claim you are responsible for backing it up. Not others. Telling others to shoulder your burden of proof demonstrates a fundamental lack of understanding of the scientific process and often indicates intentional dishonesty by the one demanding others do the work for them. It is not OUR homework to do, to cite YOUR references on YOUR report. If you do not like that, then the door is to your left.
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Old 01-14-2022, 09:32 AM   #4671
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Well, I've been back for a bit, haven't seen what I hoped (new STi). Back to hibernation.

Peace.

--kC
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Old 01-14-2022, 09:32 AM   #4672
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If the new wrx was an offroad suv then the flares would be welcome. They donít look good on a sedan sports car.



LX600 Australia
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Old 01-14-2022, 09:59 AM   #4673
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Quote:
Originally Posted by samagon View Post
this is super easy, go find a 5 year old Crosstrek, it's not like they've changed the formula.



this is such a false narrative.

with computers controlling things, an automatic can shift in milliseconds. some faster, some slower. the VW DSG can shift in 200 MS.

the fastest a human can clutch in, slot gear, clutch out is going to be anywhere from 500 MS to a full second.

everything else being completely equal, gear ratios, number of gears, the DSG equipped car is going to be faster to 60.

sure it is designed this way, but they don't design it with the plan of killing the manual, they design it this way because people want performance without a traditional clutch pedal and gear shift stick, and the technology allows them to design it this way.

regardless if the transmission doing the shift has a planetary set, or a layshaft, a manually operated clutch transmission will be slower, and it isn't some edict that it is so. humans are slow, automation is fast.

these days have been coming for over 30 years.
Did you watch the video? He explains how the quicker shift of the automatic depending on the application is not enough to beat the manual.

So no it is not a false narrative. But Automatics are perfect every time, which means consistency. But manuals don't have to be as slow as they are. The manufacturer is just setting them up to not be nearly equivalent as the Auto. Take the Golf R situation and Porsche in various models of their cars for example.
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Old 01-14-2022, 09:59 AM   #4674
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Originally Posted by samagon View Post

this is such a false narrative.
I'd say kayen's statement that manufacturers are gearing manuals to lose intentionally somehow is false, but the content of the video is correct. The "real reason" is mostly MPGs/massaging things to do better in tests.
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Old 01-14-2022, 10:15 AM   #4675
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Quote:
Originally Posted by samagon View Post
this is super easy, go find a 5 year old Crosstrek, it's not like they've changed the formula.
2002 Element was their design target; eventually they will just make every bolt on body panel out of unpainted plastic.

Quote:
Originally Posted by samagon View Post
this is such a false narrative.

with computers controlling things, an automatic can shift in milliseconds. some faster, some slower. the VW DSG can shift in 200 MS.

the fastest a human can clutch in, slot gear, clutch out is going to be anywhere from 500 MS to a full second.

everything else being completely equal, gear ratios, number of gears, the DSG equipped car is going to be faster to 60.

sure it is designed this way, but they don't design it with the plan of killing the manual, they design it this way because people want performance without a traditional clutch pedal and gear shift stick, and the technology allows them to design it this way.

regardless if the transmission doing the shift has a planetary set, or a layshaft, a manually operated clutch transmission will be slower, and it isn't some edict that it is so. humans are slow, automation is fast.

these days have been coming for over 30 years.
Auto has been faster/quicker in most vehicles since what, the early 2000's?

The Manual is an afterthought, or at the very least not given the R&D it deserves for most manufacturers. I agree that it isn't some sinister plot to kill off manuals though; it's when manus do a half-assed job in a car that is predominantly sold with a manual when it bothers me.

I think the only truly guilty party right now is VAG - Porsche did not optimize/revise the gearing in the manual for the Current 911; they definitely have the budget for it.

Subaru is somewhat guilty; the GT package in the new WRX is the CVT only, and the 6spd in the WRX, has sucked since inception; this is a car that sells primarily in manual trans, hence the somewhat guilty. I honestly wonder what using the STi trans would cost on a per-unit basis.

Genesis only offered a manual behind the 2.0T in the G70; although it's a "luxury" sedan so that can be argued against.

Ford offers a no-so-good Getrag in the GT, the Tremec is in the higher trim models (GT350, Mach-1)

GM at least offers the Tremec in the Camaro, CT4-V BW & CT5-V BW.
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