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Old 01-19-2022, 11:40 PM   #4926
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You talking about the same RAV4 that has problems in the moose test?

That was the RAV4 Prime only, IIRC. Handling dynamics get weird when you add 500lbs of battery to a chassis that wasnít explicitly designed for it.

OP mentioned AWD capability, not handling FWIW. The AWD system he is talking about is the torque vectoring rear diff found on certain trims of the RAV4 with the non-hybrid engine. All the hybrid/PHEV have the electric only rear drive that doesnít have anything beyond the brakes to push power from left to right.

A friend of mine picked up a RAV4 Prime over the summer. The drivetrain is truly impressive. Efficient, powerful, smooth. Itís really, really good.
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Old 01-19-2022, 11:44 PM   #4927
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Oh I was more talking about ride on the street. In an ideal world I'd have a 2nd car which is performance only (rwd 2 door) but for now my car has to double as both a daily and a performance car. I was hoping SGP would provide a big improvement in ride quality but no one is really saying that. Hopefully the STI gets adaptive dampers and the comfort setting is good for daily driving.

I've driven the current type R and that comfort setting is great when you don't want to get on it. Next gen STI and Type R is probably due the same time....

In the other post I was more saying no other performance cars have the cladding. Using more aggressive sheetmetal compared to plastic cladding would've been my preference. And given the reaction to the wrx reveal, I'm sure many others think the same thing.

Would a massively improved and modern STI make me choose it over a type R despite the cladding? Dunno. Don't think so but the type R isn't a super model either.



Ah. OK. Based on all the other SGP cars, I would have thought myself that the ride would be night and day like it's siblings. I never thought that comfort might not be the order of business for the WRX over handling improvements. Maybe the GT suspension does that.....which I agree shoulda been available on a high trim MT.


As for the cladding.....yeah, it's certainly far more disliked that liked. As I've said before, I just contest those that say it was JUST a marketing thing and not for a benefit. Some people just can't seem to think ANY improvement is not "marketing" if it wasn't the improvement they had wished for.
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Old 01-20-2022, 03:51 AM   #4928
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It has to make you feel like youíre driving a street-legal rally car while also being practical enough to pick up the kids and make grocery runs.
To quote Yoda, this is why you fail.

Itís been homogenized for the general public. Never a good thing with an enthusiast model. Sounds extremely bland. And while I have not owned a VA WRX, I certainly have driven it multiple times. I see why many a run on the last VAís. Car for car Iíd take the VA. This new one sounds boring AF.

Meanwhile I saw a Corolla hatch today. Whatever the n/a sport trim was, and it looked damn good. Hopefully Toyota and Toyoda will deliver.
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Old 01-20-2022, 04:54 AM   #4929
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Ah. OK. Based on all the other SGP cars, I would have thought myself that the ride would be night and day like it's siblings. I never thought that comfort might not be the order of business for the WRX over handling improvements. Maybe the GT suspension does that.....which I agree shoulda been available on a high trim MT.


As for the cladding.....yeah, it's certainly far more disliked that liked. As I've said before, I just contest those that say it was JUST a marketing thing and not for a benefit. Some people just can't seem to think ANY improvement is not "marketing" if it wasn't the improvement they had wished for.
Yeah I just think in 2022 you should be able to enjoy performance without being beaten up. Good handling to me is achieving great cornering without having rock hard suspension. Once the honeymoon period wears off I need to be happy with things like the ride and interior. Hoping I get to choose between a great STI and type R rather than default to the type R because of stiff ride and plastic cladding.

Speaking of which I'm in the camp where I'm dubious of any real benefit from the texture. But even if it has huge benefits, I don't think anything would outweigh the asthetic to me. Not worth it. 22b style fenders was all that was needed!
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Old 01-20-2022, 06:26 AM   #4930
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I'm with you. "Yeah, it'll be ugly, but, THINK OF THE BENEFITS!" That's not the greatest argument for keeping the textured, plastic cladding. If we're gonna compromise because of benefits, why not just stop selling sedans and only sell a sport wagon (or hatchback)? Make one vehicle that you can ship around the world. I wouldn't like it, but I'm more accepting of a sport wagon having plastic cladding much, much more than a sedan having plastic cladding.
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Old 01-20-2022, 08:53 AM   #4931
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Honestly, when I first saw the spy shots, I thought the 2022 WRX might be some sort of Stinger or Arteon style lift/sport back.

Those aren't the best looking rear ends in my opinion, but looking at how ugly the rear of the WRX turned out anyway it might as well have been.
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Old 01-20-2022, 09:18 AM   #4932
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Originally Posted by NZrex View Post
Yeah I just think in 2022 you should be able to enjoy performance without being beaten up. Good handling to me is achieving great cornering without having rock hard suspension. Once the honeymoon period wears off I need to be happy with things like the ride and interior. Hoping I get to choose between a great STI and type R rather than default to the type R because of stiff ride and plastic cladding.

Speaking of which I'm in the camp where I'm dubious of any real benefit from the texture. But even if it has huge benefits, I don't think anything would outweigh the asthetic to me. Not worth it. 22b style fenders was all that was needed!



I'd bet the 22B fenders, as badass as they made it look, actually hurt mpg on that body.........which didn't matter back then. MPG matters more to manufacturers more now because of the government. I see this is a work-in cause they seem to not be able to increase mpg with the engine. So, they squeaked it out everywhere they could.
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Old 01-20-2022, 09:39 AM   #4933
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That last photo in the jalopnik link, made me throw up a little in my mouth.
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Old 01-20-2022, 09:54 AM   #4934
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Hey bud. You say that the wrx has better handling on a less punishing chassis/suspension. But this review by jalopnik says the ride is still trash? I don't think you own a VA wrx so as a current owner of a VA I'm probably more qualified than you to comment on at least the ride of my wrx. And I can confirm it's complete trash. Reading this, and watching some reviews of the 2022 wrx saying the car rides essentially the same as before, it tells me the vaunted new SGP doesn't yield any benefit? Is there any benefit of SGP compared to a non SGP wrx with respect to ride and road noise?

The link is below which may not work as I'm doing this on my phone but I wanted to ask you about this. If the so called daily driver wrx still rides horribly then I'm a little worried about the sti as that's the hardcore rally racer ain't it? And given these cars are not aimed at teenagers anymore, I'd say ride is pretty important.......



https://jalopnik.com/the-2022-subaru...ood-1848244813
Seems like the ride quality expectations vary by reviewer.

https://carbuzz.com/cars/subaru/wrx/2022
Quote:
When settling down on a normal road, this is the most comfortable-riding WRX yet.
Quote:
Gone are the days of bumpy daily driving a WRX, and, dare we say it, the ride is refined enough passengers won't notice they're in a car designed to attack both paved and gravel roads in any weather.
https://www.motortrend.com/reviews/2...-drive-review/
Quote:
Ride quality is the biggest level-up in the VB WRX over every version that came before.
Quote:
Subaru did an amazing job with this model's ride

https://www.thedrive.com/new-cars/43...mature-wrx-yet
Quote:
the ride is noticeably more compliant than the outgoing WRX, yet body motions are still well controlled at higher speeds and during hard braking.
https://www.caranddriver.com/reviews...aru-wrx-drive/
Quote:
The resulting car sounds quieter and the ride less abusive.
Quote:
Except on a particularly egregious stretch of washboard highway, the 2022 WRX never seemed unsettled by uneven concrete
https://www.thecarconnection.com/ove...ubaru_wrx_2022
Quote:
even rides well
Quote:
The damp tuning is firm, but not harsh, and it's easy to live with on a daily basis.
https://www.motorauthority.com/news/...around-talents
Quote:
Well-tuned dampers that aren't too firm keep the tires on the road where stiffer suspensions would skip over bumps.
Quote:
the overall ride feels more forgiving.
https://www.autoblog.com/2021/12/20/...-drive-review/
Quote:
and while the WRX was far from supple, it wasn't punishing
https://www.cnet.com/roadshow/news/2...-drive-review/
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The ride is still controlled and quite firm, but strikes a better balance between being supple enough to soak up big bumps without harshness or discomfort.
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Old 01-20-2022, 10:03 AM   #4935
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Sounds like it's going to be a great grocery getter with the extra ground clearance and Crosstrek ride. Too bad it will get lost in the supermarket parking lots next to all the other plastic clad CUV's.
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Old 01-20-2022, 10:06 AM   #4936
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So, any guesses as to when the STI will be revealed and how much different from the WRX itíll be?
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Old 01-20-2022, 10:42 AM   #4937
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So, any guesses as to when the STI will be revealed and how much different from the WRX itíll be?
hard to say, hopefully it will debut at the ny auto show this year, we don't know how different the STI will be from the wrx. we have to wait for the first STI spyshots. as subaru confirms final specs, they have to test it on either a track or regular city streets.
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Old 01-20-2022, 10:51 AM   #4938
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STi is going to look the same, just with big wing. They're not going to back down on the unpainted plastic cladding on the STi, I'm sure of it. Oh, and they'll surely have way more "special editions" than before.
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Old 01-20-2022, 11:02 AM   #4939
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If the so called daily driver wrx still rides horribly then I'm a little worried about the sti as that's the hardcore rally racer ain't it?
What do you think those electronic dampers in the GT are meant for?
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Old 01-20-2022, 11:30 AM   #4940
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Originally Posted by heavyD View Post
Sounds like it's going to be a great grocery getter with the extra ground clearance and Crosstrek ride. Too bad it will get lost in the supermarket parking lots next to all the other plastic clad CUV's.
That's what the lava lamps are for.
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Old 01-20-2022, 12:07 PM   #4941
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STi is going to look the same, just with big wing. They're not going to back down on the unpainted plastic cladding on the STi, I'm sure of it. Oh, and they'll surely have way more "special editions" than before.
I used to believe that the STI would come with the plastic painted but it really sounds like Subaru may double down on the unpainted plastic. Maybe common sense will set in as I just don't know how many people are going to want to shell out $45k for something that has styling cues off a Crosstrek. Even the lava lamps don't look overly premium.
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Old 01-20-2022, 12:07 PM   #4942
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Originally Posted by heavyD View Post
Sounds like it's going to be a great grocery getter with the extra ground clearance and Crosstrek ride. Too bad it will get lost in the supermarket parking lots next to all the other plastic clad CUV's.
Quote:
Originally Posted by 4S-TURBO View Post
That's what the lava lamps are for.
And the SPT transmission... The Subaru Focus Group (SFG) wants a Crosstrek Sedan grocery getter without a manual trans.
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Old 01-20-2022, 12:09 PM   #4943
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Sounds like it's going to be a great grocery getter with the extra ground clearance and Crosstrek ride. Too bad it will get lost in the supermarket parking lots next to all the other plastic clad CUV's.

WRXís have always looked like econoboxes.
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Old 01-20-2022, 01:10 PM   #4944
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I'm with you. "Yeah, it'll be ugly, but, THINK OF THE BENEFITS!" That's not the greatest argument for keeping the textured, plastic cladding. If we're gonna compromise because of benefits, why not just stop selling sedans and only sell a sport wagon (or hatchback)? Make one vehicle that you can ship around the world. I wouldn't like it, but I'm more accepting of a sport wagon having plastic cladding much, much more than a sedan having plastic cladding.
I'll take my Levorg STI sans cladding, thank you very much.
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Old 01-20-2022, 01:18 PM   #4945
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I used to believe that the STI would come with the plastic painted but it really sounds like Subaru may double down on the unpainted plastic. Maybe common sense will set in as I just don't know how many people are going to want to shell out $45k for something that has styling cues off a Crosstrek. Even the lava lamps don't look overly premium.
Watch, come say around 2026, the more upscale versions will proudly be presented as having body matched painted fenders, bumpers and or mirrors.
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Old 01-20-2022, 01:24 PM   #4946
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WRXís have always looked like econoboxes.
Yep but that wasn't good enough for Subaru. They decided to make it look like an economy CUV.
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Old 01-20-2022, 02:46 PM   #4947
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To quote Yoda, this is why you fail.

Itís been homogenized for the general public. Never a good thing with an enthusiast model. Sounds extremely bland. And while I have not owned a VA WRX, I certainly have driven it multiple times. I see why many a run on the last VAís. Car for car Iíd take the VA. This new one sounds boring AF.

Meanwhile I saw a Corolla hatch today. Whatever the n/a sport trim was, and it looked damn good. Hopefully Toyota and Toyoda will deliver.
I agree with you 100%. All cars in this segment don't achieve their full performance potential because they have to double as daily drivers. But that's the whole remit of the hot hatch though. Family cars with high performance that can be used everyday. Some ride harder or softer, some have better tech, some are faster. I'd love to buy a dedicated sports car like an M2 but that would mean spending less on my family SUV which would be selfish of me to put myself ahead of family.

Regarding the GR corolla I wasn't initially interested because I think a rolla is the worst appliance on wheels with a crud interior and 2nd tiniest boot behind the mazda 3. I don't care much about boot space but that boot wouldn't hold much. But I saw a red (washed and detailed) rolla with nice wheels (hybrid no less) and I'm shocked to admit it looked good! I pictured it with performance wheels, fenders, and focus rs wing and I think it will look good. If it comes with the yaris AWD system this car is going to eat STI sales for sure.

Quote:
Originally Posted by chanomatik View Post
I'm with you. "Yeah, it'll be ugly, but, THINK OF THE BENEFITS!" That's not the greatest argument for keeping the textured, plastic cladding. If we're gonna compromise because of benefits, why not just stop selling sedans and only sell a sport wagon (or hatchback)? Make one vehicle that you can ship around the world. I wouldn't like it, but I'm more accepting of a sport wagon having plastic cladding much, much more than a sedan having plastic cladding.
This. Also the levorg concept had the tack on fenders but not the production car, the wrx concept had fenders and so did the production car! I would've thought the wagon would get the fenders and not the sedan. How does that work?

Quote:
Originally Posted by JustyWRC View Post
I'd bet the 22B fenders, as badass as they made it look, actually hurt mpg on that body.........which didn't matter back then. MPG matters more to manufacturers more now because of the government. I see this is a work-in cause they seem to not be able to increase mpg with the engine. So, they squeaked it out everywhere they could.
Yeah but that are saying this car is completely separated off from the impreza. So it should look more extreme in a good way right? It should be more compact right? In the past the car was a tarted up impreza so there was only so much they could do. But now they could've gone aggro on the sheet metal, reduced the size, offered both sedan and wagon......

Interestingly this is what they said about the VA too I recall and in subsequent reviews and now they acknowledge the VA is stiff AF. Put adaptive dampers in the STI, reduce the plastic, and I'll test drive it.

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Originally Posted by SoDealer View Post
What do you think those electronic dampers in the GT are meant for?
Maybe ask subaru why they only put those in the CVT and not the far bigger selling manual? Either way put them in the STI, surely.
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Old 01-20-2022, 03:21 PM   #4948
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Yeah but that are saying this car is completely separated off from the impreza. So it should look more extreme in a good way right? It should be more compact right? In the past the car was a tarted up impreza so there was only so much they could do. But now they could've gone aggro on the sheet metal, reduced the size, offered both sedan and wagon......


They started that with the VA for sure. Now, it's getting even further. The "tarted up Impreza" was just that. ALL easy cosmetic changes. The only one I've ever owne that I might have had some embarrassement with was an Impreza that the previous owner took to town on making it look like an STI. The only thing he didn't touch without paint was the doors. Was still an Impreza. Can't do that......at least not nearly as easy.....Starting with the VA. There's also much more under the skin that was changed that would be even less easy to copy. But, Minus the BRZ......well not really still......Subaru has always shared it's chassis among the models. That won't change. BRZ is too small for the WRX/STI.

Looks wise. Could they have done ANYTHING else for that aerompg? Dunno. Seeing the Levorg, I'd say they at least tried. I've always liked behind the scenes/how it's made things; so, I hope we do get to see that video.
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Old 01-20-2022, 03:49 PM   #4949
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Maybe ask subaru why they only put those in the CVT and not the far bigger selling manual? Either way put them in the STI, surely.
People all mad the GT only comes in CVT, meanwhile I was planning on ordering a fully loaded WRX with CVT anyway Iím really curious how the electronic/adaptive dampers perform, Iím starting to beat myself up on my manual BRZ with coilovers
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Old 01-20-2022, 04:00 PM   #4950
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I agree with you 100%. All cars in this segment don't achieve their full performance potential because they have to double as daily drivers. But that's the whole remit of the hot hatch though. Family cars with high performance that can be used everyday. Some ride harder or softer, some have better tech, some are faster. I'd love to buy a dedicated sports car like an M2 but that would mean spending less on my family SUV which would be selfish of me to put myself ahead of family.



Regarding the GR corolla I wasn't initially interested because I think a rolla is the worst appliance on wheels with a crud interior and 2nd tiniest boot behind the mazda 3. I don't care much about boot space but that boot wouldn't hold much. But I saw a red (washed and detailed) rolla with nice wheels (hybrid no less) and I'm shocked to admit it looked good! I pictured it with performance wheels, fenders, and focus rs wing and I think it will look good. If it comes with the yaris AWD system this car is going to eat STI sales for sure.







This. Also the levorg concept had the tack on fenders but not the production car, the wrx concept had fenders and so did the production car! I would've thought the wagon would get the fenders and not the sedan. How does that work?







Yeah but that are saying this car is completely separated off from the impreza. So it should look more extreme in a good way right? It should be more compact right? In the past the car was a tarted up impreza so there was only so much they could do. But now they could've gone aggro on the sheet metal, reduced the size, offered both sedan and wagon......







Interestingly this is what they said about the VA too I recall and in subsequent reviews and now they acknowledge the VA is stiff AF. Put adaptive dampers in the STI, reduce the plastic, and I'll test drive it.







Maybe ask subaru why they only put those in the CVT and not the far bigger selling manual? Either way put them in the STI, surely.


I donít remember that. I remember the VA being consistently called out for the reduction in ride quality from the GR.

If the dampers are an STI feature, thereís no automatic with them except the GT.
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