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Old Yesterday, 12:40 PM   #126
NighthawkSTI
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and lest we forget that reliability of BMW M cars! Reliable to develop rod knock like clockwork that is

heres an $85,000 V10 knocking like a sidewalk bucket drummer outside a nightclub at closing time.

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Old Yesterday, 12:41 PM   #127
RealDealTarheel
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Not clear from the videos, were those cars less than 6 months old? Didn't appear to be on a flat bed either.
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Old Yesterday, 12:54 PM   #128
WRXnick16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NighthawkSTI View Post
The fuel issue is also something Subaru has acknowledged, in every owners manual it says 93 is required in the STI for best performance and engine reliability/safety. So owners who complain about only having 91 available and damage the engine are ignoring that and just being stubborn.
Quote:
Originally Posted by NighthawkSTI View Post
The only issue now with the main bearings is owner abuse...over revving mods without proper tunes using the wrong fuel etc etc (seemingly out of spite because hey I should be able to fill a car that has the best safety for the engine on 93 octane...instead with 91 because that's all I can get in my state LOL...if my engine blows that's subaru's fault), using oils specified for diesel engines etc etc etc ...
So Subaru/STI has no fault in that they sell a car in states that only 91 ACN is available, state in the owner's manual that 93 AKI is only required for "maximum performance", and specifically state that 91 AKI will have "no detriment to engine durability or driveability"?? and we know the latter to be false..

And then a stock, low mileage, street driven, $645k S209 (using the Subaru/STI recommended Motul 300V 5W-40 oil - what many consider to be the one of the best oils for this engine) experiences a premature engine failure... yet it's the owner's fault and Subaru shouldn't warranty the engine failure? or the owner should have expected the engine failure given that they were using the best fuel that they're limited to in their state? Not to mention, the high temps have been in the low 70s in here in California.. what will happen on the 100+ degree summer days?

Here's what the owner's manual states in regards to fuel requirements:



Yes, some fraction of all high performance engines will experience an engine failure under the right circumstances. But that doesn't excuse Subaru from a failure like this on their $64k+ halo car given the conditions. I'll follow-up once I hear more from the owner.. to see if Subaru gives him a hard time with the warranty claim.

No one here is saying that we expect optimal performance on 91 AKI.. we're just saying that Subaru's factory tunes should be able to handle it without severe knocking and engine failures.. especially given the statement in the owner's manual. Don't sell the car in those states if it won't run properly on their top tier "premium" fuel.

Edit:

Owner update: It's been almost a week and Subaru hasn't examined the engine yet. They're claiming that "they found a tune" and won't proceed before sending it to a "specialist" to confirm that the tune matches the vehicle. Given that the owner is running the factory tune.. it sounds like Subaru has a difficult time even analyzing the S209's ECU.

Last edited by WRXnick16; Yesterday at 01:33 PM.
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Old Yesterday, 03:50 PM   #129
dcsti
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WRXnick16 View Post
..
Owner update: It's been almost a week and Subaru hasn't examined the engine yet. They're claiming that "they found a tune" and won't proceed before sending it to a "specialist" to confirm that the tune matches the vehicle. Given that the owner is running the factory tune.. it sounds like Subaru has a difficult time even analyzing the S209's ECU.
Interesting. Have any of the tuners posted anything indicating the ECU is any different than the vanilla STI? I'm assuming the dealer is just incompetent here. Unless, of course, the owner is lying on the internet and actually did reflash it...
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Old Yesterday, 03:58 PM   #130
chanomatik
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If he reflashed AND it failed, that would suck. That's why they say to just keep it stock until the warranty is up.

Which, in this case, sucks, because the stock tune is terrible.
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Old Yesterday, 04:23 PM   #131
NighthawkSTI
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WRXnick16 View Post
So Subaru/STI has no fault in that they sell a car in states that only 91 ACN is available, state in the owner's manual that 93 AKI is only required for "maximum performance", and specifically state that 91 AKI will have "no detriment to engine durability or driveability"?? and we know the latter to be false..

And then a stock, low mileage, street driven, $645k S209 (using the Subaru/STI recommended Motul 300V 5W-40 oil - what many consider to be the one of the best oils for this engine) experiences a premature engine failure... yet it's the owner's fault and Subaru shouldn't warranty the engine failure? or the owner should have expected the engine failure given that they were using the best fuel that they're limited to in their state? Not to mention, the high temps have been in the low 70s in here in California.. what will happen on the 100+ degree summer days?

Here's what the owner's manual states in regards to fuel requirements:



Yes, some fraction of all high performance engines will experience an engine failure under the right circumstances. But that doesn't excuse Subaru from a failure like this on their $64k+ halo car given the conditions. I'll follow-up once I hear more from the owner.. to see if Subaru gives him a hard time with the warranty claim.

No one here is saying that we expect optimal performance on 91 AKI.. we're just saying that Subaru's factory tunes should be able to handle it without severe knocking and engine failures.. especially given the statement in the owner's manual. Don't sell the car in those states if it won't run properly on their top tier "premium" fuel.

Edit:

Owner update: It's been almost a week and Subaru hasn't examined the engine yet. They're claiming that "they found a tune" and won't proceed before sending it to a "specialist" to confirm that the tune matches the vehicle. Given that the owner is running the factory tune.. it sounds like Subaru has a difficult time even analyzing the S209's ECU.

Sure , of course, but that wording is moot and no longer valid when 91 octane is COMBINED with modifications or a tune that changes the factory settings that allowed for the use of 91 octane. My 06 manual even says that octane below 91 can be used, but only temporarily. I have never used 91 and never had knock even with stage 2 cobb tune with a turbo XS downpipe.

But I agree, all of the flagship cars I posted a video of with severe engine damage when new is inexcusable. An S209 that has major engine damage would be the same....I would like to see the wording from the S209 owners manual though about the required fuel.

The majority of the failures from the high performance flagship cars from any manufacturer are poorly thought out modifications and/or tunes that create excessive A/F ratio lean out, too much ignition timing, too much boost etc etc etc. Subaru is no different. Manufacturing defects are nowhere near as frequent for engine damage than the former.

Ya gotta pay if you wanna play...at least a short block EJ257 is dirt cheap compared to a GT500, AMG or BMW M car, all of which I have provided examples of the same type of failures the STI can see. Pick your poison
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Old Yesterday, 04:29 PM   #132
WRXnick16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dcsti View Post
Interesting. Have any of the tuners posted anything indicating the ECU is any different than the vanilla STI? I'm assuming the dealer is just incompetent here. Unless, of course, the owner is lying on the internet and actually did reflash it...
The JDM S series do have exclusive ECUs, but I haven't heard if the S209's ECU follows that tradition.

The S207 & S208 ECUs have additional memory and and allow for finer & more aggressive adjustment of certain parameters. Supposedly it allows for additional adjustment of AVCS settings and higher cam degree.

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Old Yesterday, 04:37 PM   #133
WRXnick16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NighthawkSTI View Post
I would like to see the wording from the S209 owners manual though about the required fuel.
Similar verbiage:

"91 AKI may be used with no detriment to engine durability or driveability"

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Old Yesterday, 06:43 PM   #134
Pre
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Quote:
Originally Posted by neg_matnik View Post
Again, that engine, once tuned to meet current emissions regs, is just a liability; completely unacceptable, IMO.
That's why I'm not spending new car money on any Subaru with a turbo EJ25 under the hood.
Yup. Put the new motor in it already and Ill be ready to buy one. Toyo just fd us all on the GR-4 so waiting. I hope we can get it in something else besides a got damn sedan.
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Old Today, 02:30 PM   #135
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pre View Post
Yup. Put the new motor in it already and Ill be ready to buy one. Toyo just fd us all on the GR-4 so waiting. I hope we can get it in something else besides a got damn sedan.
everything about the new STI would make it different from the S209. the FA24 is no EJ25. ELH instead UELH. twin scroll instead of single scroll turbo. the S209 is built on a 2014 era frame. the new STI would be on the global platform. The S209 was benchmarked with a Cadillac. what will the new USDM STI be benchmarked against this time, the honda CTR, the US market CLA AMG?
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