Welcome to the North American Subaru Impreza Owners Club Sunday May 19, 2024
Home Forums Images WikiNASIOC Products Store Modifications Upgrade Garage
NASIOC
Go Back   NASIOC > NASIOC Technical > Built Motor Discussion

Welcome to NASIOC - The world's largest online community for Subaru enthusiasts!
Welcome to the NASIOC.com Subaru forum.

You are currently viewing our forum as a guest, which gives you limited access to view most discussions and access our other features. By joining our community, free of charge, you will have access to post topics, communicate privately with other members (PM), respond to polls, upload content and access many other special features. Registration is free, fast and simple, so please join our community today!

If you have any problems with the registration process or your account login, please contact us.







* As an Amazon Associate I earn from qualifying purchases. 
* Registered users of the site do not see these ads. 
Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 03-04-2023, 07:28 PM   #1
Mauled
Scooby Newbie
 
Member#: 500169
Join Date: Apr 2019
Default Gtx 3076r gen 2 vs gtx3582r gen 2 ej207

I have a gtx30r gen 2 .82 currently on a ej207 v8 with built heads and cams. Wondering if it's worth it to upgrade to a gtx35r and how much power gain I would see. Currently I make full boost at 4.8k which is 28psi. I want to crack 500whp, I have no idea what power I'm making now, I'd say around 480.

If I get the 35r gen 2 should I go .63 or .82? Also could I turn the rpm up to 8500 safely?

Car is 2005 wrx, daily driver, no track time
Ej207 v8 gsc s1 cams valves springs retainers
50/50 meth injection and 93.
* Registered users of the site do not see these ads.
Mauled is offline   Reply With Quote
Sponsored Links
* Registered users of the site do not see these ads.
Old 03-04-2023, 09:32 PM   #2
K3rm1tth3fr0g
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 508105
Join Date: Nov 2019
Chapter/Region: NWIC
Location: Greater Seattle Area
Vehicle:
Link G4X flex tuned
02' EJ205 20G 6MT wagon

Default

Many many variables here. Too many to say anything with certainty.

Going from a GT30 to a GT35 will certainly open up the topend while killing midrange, but exactly how much depends on the turbo.

The 3576 Gen 2 is actually a more balanced turbo than the 3076 you're on now, of which it shares its compressor wheel dimensions. It's much better suited for 500+ applications than the 3076. I have a Gen 2 3576 in my garage waiting for my built motor.

Without corn makes hitting 500 tougher but the meth of course helps - you just risk the meth system failing and the motor blowing up at high RPM... Such is life without corn.

I would guess going to a 3576 with a .82 you'd spool just a hair later with a lot more topend. Being a 2.0L though does seriously hinder spool and boost threshold though.

There are many schools of though regarding A/R selection. .82 is a good middleground for most setups, with the 1.xx A/Rs typically either killing spool/boost threshold, or making the motor feel more N/A like with a more linear power delivery. The ladder of which can actually be preferable. .63 will hit hard but drop off, not really what you want if you're sizing up to a GT35, though on a 2.0L a GT35 w/ a .63 house makes much more sense than a 2.5L.

I'd stay .82 probably though if you are up-sizing turbos.

With a 3576 you could probably hit 500 with meth. Same with 3582 but the spool and response will be considerably worse.

Do you have a tuner who you can discuss options with? They are always a good resource to engage if possible as they have a good understanding of the ramp rates, and how A/R affects power and spool. I would advise getting on a dyno rather than E-tuning a setup like this.

Not to throw another wrench in the mix but the EFR turbos also kick ass.
K3rm1tth3fr0g is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-05-2023, 08:41 AM   #3
KillerBMotorsport
NASIOC Vendor
 
Member#: 198281
Join Date: Dec 2008
Chapter/Region: MAIC
Location: Virginia
Vehicle:
2005 WRX/STi
WRB of course

Default

I would start with getting the car on a dyno as-is, so you know where you are truly starting from. 20whp is not a big gain and could potentially done with other mods alone. Heck, with an EJ20 and cams already, you could go to the next size A/R (1.06 IIRC) and gain that 20 you're looking for up top.

Going from a 3076 to 3576 will typically yield 80-100whp on an EJ25, on an EJ20 less, but still more than enough to exceed your goal with minimal increase in spool time. A 3582 will add a lot of lag. On an EJ20, you'd really want to have the heads built for high end use. At stock RPM range, there's just not enough gas flow to really take advantage of what the 3582 needs to make best power.
KillerBMotorsport is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-05-2023, 08:49 AM   #4
benflynn
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 515308
Join Date: Jun 2020
Default

E85 E85
benflynn is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-05-2023, 10:30 AM   #5
K3rm1tth3fr0g
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 508105
Join Date: Nov 2019
Chapter/Region: NWIC
Location: Greater Seattle Area
Vehicle:
Link G4X flex tuned
02' EJ205 20G 6MT wagon

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by benflynn View Post
E85 E85

K3rm1tth3fr0g is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-12-2023, 07:18 PM   #6
Mauled
Scooby Newbie
 
Member#: 500169
Join Date: Apr 2019
Default

Well my heads are fully built, but the bottom end is stock. I might get a 3576r. I can't find any info about people running a 3576 or a 3582 on a ej207. My car makes 27psi by 5k rpm. Just wondering when you think the 3576 will spool? And will it hit 500whp with meth?
Mauled is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-23-2023, 11:19 AM   #7
FuJi K
Scooby Guru
 
Member#: 3687
Join Date: Jan 2001
Chapter/Region: MWSOC
Location: St. Paul, MN
Vehicle:
MY99 GF4 JDM 6spd
NF Performance

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mauled View Post
Well my heads are fully built, but the bottom end is stock. I might get a 3576r. I can't find any info about people running a 3576 or a 3582 on a ej207. My car makes 27psi by 5k rpm. Just wondering when you think the 3576 will spool? And will it hit 500whp with meth?
The 3582 will get you 500whp no problem. Just remember you'll need to run it in the mid/upper 20psi range to hit your 500whp.

The 3576 runs a smaller compressor wheel. It may come on a little quicker but you'll have to run it around 30psi range to clear 500whp.

Your stock bottom end will die eventually. Don't lean out or detonate.
FuJi K is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-23-2023, 11:52 AM   #8
subaru_gc8
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 29292
Join Date: Nov 2002
Chapter/Region: SCIC
Location: Orange County CA
Vehicle:
2004 WRX wagon
silver

Default

my question is why not consider a g30 770 if you are looking for the 500 level? why not go with the newer tech?
subaru_gc8 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-23-2023, 12:13 PM   #9
K3rm1tth3fr0g
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 508105
Join Date: Nov 2019
Chapter/Region: NWIC
Location: Greater Seattle Area
Vehicle:
Link G4X flex tuned
02' EJ205 20G 6MT wagon

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by subaru_gc8 View Post
my question is why not consider a g30 770 if you are looking for the 500 level? why not go with the newer tech?
Couldn't agree more

G30 770 is the ultimate SWEET spot for ~500+

Gt30 spool and response with gt35 power
K3rm1tth3fr0g is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-24-2023, 01:11 PM   #10
Mauled
Scooby Newbie
 
Member#: 500169
Join Date: Apr 2019
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by FuJi K View Post
The 3582 will get you 500whp no problem. Just remember you'll need to run it in the mid/upper 20psi range to hit your 500whp.

The 3576 runs a smaller compressor wheel. It may come on a little quicker but you'll have to run it around 30psi range to clear 500whp.

Your stock bottom end will die eventually. Don't lean out or detonate.
What will the gtx 3582r spool at? I have gsc s1 cams and beehive springs plus aftermarket valves could I turn rev limit to 8500?

Also reason I can't get the g series turbos is because I don't have a actual garrett it's a 3076 copy. I don't want to spend 3k on just the turbo alone. Plus there's no actual data with the g series turbos that I can find. Even the gtx turbos don't have much info, cant find anyone running one on a ej207. When I switched from the gt3076 .63 to the gtx gen 2 .82 and added cams, my car doesn't spool up till 5k now, with the gt3076 I was making 24psi by 4200.
Mauled is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-24-2023, 02:27 PM   #11
HughGordon
Scooby Newbie
 
Member#: 355996
Join Date: May 2013
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mauled View Post
Also reason I can't get the g series turbos is because I don't have a actual garrett it's a 3076 copy.
You can get a G-series copy too.
HughGordon is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-24-2023, 03:51 PM   #12
Mauled
Scooby Newbie
 
Member#: 500169
Join Date: Apr 2019
Default

Who makes it? But still I have no idea when it will spool, haven't seen much info on these turbos on our cars.

Also my tuner won't go past 24-26psi of boost so i can't be running 30psi
Mauled is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-24-2023, 04:41 PM   #13
K3rm1tth3fr0g
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 508105
Join Date: Nov 2019
Chapter/Region: NWIC
Location: Greater Seattle Area
Vehicle:
Link G4X flex tuned
02' EJ205 20G 6MT wagon

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mauled View Post
What will the gtx 3582r spool at? I have gsc s1 cams and beehive springs plus aftermarket valves could I turn rev limit to 8500?

Also reason I can't get the g series turbos is because I don't have a actual garrett it's a 3076 copy. I don't want to spend 3k on just the turbo alone. Plus there's no actual data with the g series turbos that I can find. Even the gtx turbos don't have much info, cant find anyone running one on a ej207. When I switched from the gt3076 .63 to the gtx gen 2 .82 and added cams, my car doesn't spool up till 5k now, with the gt3076 I was making 24psi by 4200.
Late, like 4500+

Quote:
Originally Posted by HughGordon View Post
You can get a G-series copy too.
A crappy one

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mauled View Post
Who makes it? But still I have no idea when it will spool, haven't seen much info on these turbos on our cars.

Also my tuner won't go past 24-26psi of boost so i can't be running 30psi
Wut? Who's the tuner

Why in the hell does your tuner have an arbitrary boost limit without even knowing the turbo?

Max boost absolutely depends on the specific turbo and it's efficiency islands. Saying 24-26 is the max is quite silly and makes no sense.

What makes 27psi inherently more dangerous than 26? Nothing aside from the increased flow

Made up limits are dumb
K3rm1tth3fr0g is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-24-2023, 05:16 PM   #14
HughGordon
Scooby Newbie
 
Member#: 355996
Join Date: May 2013
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by K3rm1tth3fr0g View Post
A crappy one
Yeah or a good one...
HughGordon is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-24-2023, 05:17 PM   #15
HughGordon
Scooby Newbie
 
Member#: 355996
Join Date: May 2013
Default

double post
HughGordon is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-24-2023, 05:17 PM   #16
K3rm1tth3fr0g
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 508105
Join Date: Nov 2019
Chapter/Region: NWIC
Location: Greater Seattle Area
Vehicle:
Link G4X flex tuned
02' EJ205 20G 6MT wagon

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by HughGordon View Post
Yeah or a good one...
Good knock off turbos are virtually non existent without spending 65%+ of the cost of the real product.

This is even more true with the ultra cutting edge tech like the G series....
K3rm1tth3fr0g is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-24-2023, 05:31 PM   #17
Mauled
Scooby Newbie
 
Member#: 500169
Join Date: Apr 2019
Default

I've asked tuner if he could do 30psi but he said since the bottom end is stock he doesn't feel safe doing it. Also I disagree my last gt3076 was $200 and I kept up with cars making 500whp, never had a problem with it only pulled it to get a gtx. I understand wanting the real thing but the gt I had performed exactly like a garrett. I've had knock off turbos for 4 years now, as well as the wrx 5 speed that hasn't blown up yet. My friend who drifts his car has a no name gtx3582r and drifts it every weekend with no issue. The knock off turbos are better then you think.
Mauled is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-24-2023, 05:35 PM   #18
HughGordon
Scooby Newbie
 
Member#: 355996
Join Date: May 2013
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by K3rm1tth3fr0g View Post
Good knock off turbos are virtually non existent without spending 65%+ of the cost of the real product.

This is even more true with the ultra cutting edge tech like the G series....
Yeah ok, what do you think is so expensive to make on a G-series turbo? The copies don't have a Mar-M turbine but who really cares about that unless you plan on running a lot of anti lag and such. Turbos are way overpriced it's rediculous.
HughGordon is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-24-2023, 05:37 PM   #19
HughGordon
Scooby Newbie
 
Member#: 355996
Join Date: May 2013
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mauled View Post
. The knock off turbos are better then you think.
Totally agree with you there. Turbos cost such little money to manufacture. It's funny because in v8 turbo world, people think that VS racing turbos are expensive.
HughGordon is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-24-2023, 05:43 PM   #20
K3rm1tth3fr0g
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 508105
Join Date: Nov 2019
Chapter/Region: NWIC
Location: Greater Seattle Area
Vehicle:
Link G4X flex tuned
02' EJ205 20G 6MT wagon

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mauled View Post
I've asked tuner if he could do 30psi but he said since the bottom end is stock he doesn't feel safe doing it. Also I disagree my last gt3076 was $200 and I kept up with cars making 500whp, never had a problem with it only pulled it to get a gtx. I understand wanting the real thing but the gt I had performed exactly like a garrett. I've had knock off turbos for 4 years now, as well as the wrx 5 speed that hasn't blown up yet. My friend who drifts his car has a no name gtx3582r and drifts it every weekend with no issue. The knock off turbos are better then you think.
Definitely didn't perform like a real Garrett, doesn't matter what the butt dyno said.

The "my buddy does it" argument doesn't really work when most people are buying $1000 knock off turbos and claim they're a good deal.

If you feel safe running a $200 turbo, more power to you.



Quote:
Originally Posted by HughGordon View Post
Yeah ok, what do you think is so expensive to make on a G-series turbo? The copies don't have a Mar-M turbine but who really cares about that unless you plan on running a lot of anti lag and such. Turbos are way overpriced it's rediculous.
Aside from R&D, materials, manufacturing, quality control, and support.
K3rm1tth3fr0g is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-24-2023, 06:00 PM   #21
HughGordon
Scooby Newbie
 
Member#: 355996
Join Date: May 2013
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by K3rm1tth3fr0g View Post
Definitely didn't perform like a real Garrett
You "definitely" know this how? Have you ever seen a back to back test with a copy vs a Garrett? Why are you such a know-it-all?
HughGordon is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-24-2023, 06:52 PM   #22
Mauled
Scooby Newbie
 
Member#: 500169
Join Date: Apr 2019
Default

Lol the $200 one spooled exactly the same as a real garrett, same rpm. Kept up with a 530whp supercharged camaro, he only barely started pulling away in 4th gear. And that was on 24psi with no meth.

The garrett turbos are definitely overpriced.
Mauled is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-24-2023, 07:03 PM   #23
K3rm1tth3fr0g
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 508105
Join Date: Nov 2019
Chapter/Region: NWIC
Location: Greater Seattle Area
Vehicle:
Link G4X flex tuned
02' EJ205 20G 6MT wagon

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by HughGordon View Post
You "definitely" know this how? Have you ever seen a back to back test with a copy vs a Garrett? Why are you such a know-it-all?
Seen enough dyno sheets comparing knock off Garrett crap to the real deal.

Also lol
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mauled View Post
Lol the $200 one spooled exactly the same as a real garrett, same rpm. Kept up with a 530whp supercharged camaro, he only barely started pulling away in 4th gear. And that was on 24psi with no meth.

The garrett turbos are definitely overpriced.
Dyno sheet?

Definitely feel free to buy a $200 turbo if you want - no one is stopping you.

I have seen enough cheap CWs and turbos in general grenade for me to not feel comfortable doing it myself.

Research and development + meaningful support costs money - gotta pay to play.

You're right, it's much easier and cheaper to just steal intellectual property and produce it in countries with dirt cheap slave labor.

Last edited by K3rm1tth3fr0g; 05-24-2023 at 07:39 PM.
K3rm1tth3fr0g is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-25-2023, 07:33 AM   #24
HughGordon
Scooby Newbie
 
Member#: 355996
Join Date: May 2013
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by K3rm1tth3fr0g View Post
Seen enough dyno sheets comparing knock off Garrett crap to the real deal.
Can you show us all these dyno sheets? You know that Garrett make turbos in China too right? Lol.
I have purchased both a band new Garrett g-series turbo and a Pulsar Gen ii copy within the last year. I have yet to run the Garrett but the Pulsar has been performing great. The Pulsar turbo comes with full gasket set, and a nice full color install sheet. The Garrett came with one gasket (bent in package), flange with clamp, and an install sheet that had typos. It's all just marketing just like any luxury item now. There is a market for copies that perform just as well as the real thing because the real thing is overpriced.
I find it funny/annoying that you are in every thread trying to gate keep tuning and modifying Subarus. Trying to tell every person what parts they can and can't use, ****ting on people for using brands that you have deemed unworthy. What makes you an expert on any of this stuff besides regurgitating stuff other people have said? Get over yourself dude. You make this forum boring to read.
HughGordon is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-25-2023, 09:56 AM   #25
K3rm1tth3fr0g
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 508105
Join Date: Nov 2019
Chapter/Region: NWIC
Location: Greater Seattle Area
Vehicle:
Link G4X flex tuned
02' EJ205 20G 6MT wagon

Default

China has good and bad labor practices. It's not as simple as, China labor bad.

Quote:
Originally Posted by HughGordon View Post
you know that Garrett make turbos in China too right? Lol.

I have purchased both a band new Garrett g-series turbo and a Pulsar Gen ii copy within the last year. I have yet to run the Garrett but the Pulsar has been performing great. The Pulsar turbo comes with full gasket set, and a nice full color install sheet. The Garrett came with one gasket (bent in package), flange with clamp, and an install sheet that had typos. It's all just marketing just like any luxury item now. There is a market for copies that perform just as well as the real thing because the real thing is overpriced.

I find it funny/annoying that you are in every thread trying to gate keep tuning and modifying Subarus. Trying to tell every person what parts they can and can't use, ****ting on people for using brands that you have deemed unworthy. What makes you an expert on any of this stuff besides regurgitating stuff other people have said? Get over yourself dude. You make this forum boring to read.
You're upset because the gaskets that came with were bad....?

Who uses included gaskets anyway?

Hahaha - no one is gatekeeping anything.

That is rich coming from a goober who contributes nothing to the forum.

Last edited by K3rm1tth3fr0g; 05-25-2023 at 10:22 AM.
K3rm1tth3fr0g is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump

All times are GMT -4. The time now is 05:09 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.7.0
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Powered by Searchlight © 2024 Axivo Inc.
Copyright ©1999 - 2019, North American Subaru Impreza Owners Club, Inc.

As an Amazon Associate I earn from qualifying purchases.

When you click on links to various merchants on this site and make a purchase, this can result in this site earning a commission
Affiliate programs and affiliations include, but are not limited to, the eBay Partner Network.