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Old 03-31-2002, 01:20 AM   #1
alfriedesq
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Thumbs up Whoopass - New WRX dyno record set at Pruven Performance - 324 wheel HP !!!

Tonight I was lucky to get some time on the brand new 4 wd dyno jet dyno at Pruven Performance in Milford, CT - - They just got this dyno and they have recieved Cobb tunning approval as the North East Cobb dealer and dyno center

First let me say these guys are SERIOUS professionals and really gave me excelent advice and service in every respect - they have a wonderful facility and they BLOW away everyone else I have ever seen in the car performance industry - - they really know what they are doing and work hard to make you very happy

It seems that Puven is moving into the world of WRX tunning after over 6 years with DMS and Supras - they know what they are doing ! They have a 9 second DMS with stock block and tranny to prove it !

OK - the results

324.00 wheel HP at 20.5 psi of boost

305 Max torque

This was with no detonation at all

My research indicates that my theory on the 1820 turbo is correct - you need a fmic to cool the charge to reap the benefits

Pruven helped me to get extra spool up - (7 extra HP at 4,000 rpm) by retarding my timing 5 degrees to make more egt's and more exhaust gases at low rpms

After spending a couple of hours on the dyno - the experts at Pruven are of the opinion that this is about the MAX hp you can get safely from a stock WRX block without head work and makeing the bottom end stronger - - it seemed that any further adjustments - eg leaning; ign advance or boost did NOT have any additional improvements in HP

I don't think there are any additional easy BOLT on mods that I can make at this point to get more power - I need to decide if its worthwhile to spend additional funds on the engine internals - OR whether or not to just enjoy the car the way it is !!!

Sadly - as these guys are DMS experts - and they were doing a DMS dyno tune right before mine - - I am realizing that the WRX is not the best car in the world for bolt on HP mods - - they pointed out to me that a DMS could make much more HP on the stock engine for a lot less $$$ investment ! (Maybe I should save my engione mod $$$ for a deposit on the new evo VII which I just saw at the NY auto show yesterday??)))

My car is running like a clock now - it sounds and drive so much better and its very very fast now

I really appreciate the time; energy and help of Pruven Performance and would NOT hesitate to reccomend them 100% to fellow i-clubbers with a unichip or stand alone who need tunning

I'll post the dyno sheets on Mondat when i get to a scanner
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Old 03-31-2002, 01:27 AM   #2
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Congrats Al, Hope you don't mind me calling you Al.


But anywho... Cmpared to your "Street Tuning" and these guys going at your Motec... How far were you off in settings? I'm just curious as to how good street tuning can be vs a dyno.
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Old 03-31-2002, 01:30 AM   #3
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congrats.... quite amazing amount of power....

I thought he has a Tech II?


Cheers

T.
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Old 03-31-2002, 01:34 AM   #4
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Congrats Al . Those are very impressive figures. Though I don't know your driving habbits, I know that engine won't last long if I had it doing auto-x 's , track days, rallyspirnts and winter rally series. I guess for the average pedal sqeezer, the engine will last a long time.

I do have a little doubt in the accuracy of these wheel hp dynos though. I find figures vary from dyno to dyno, whether improper calibration or purposly tampered. I have seen quite a few rally engines on engine dynos, and when I see how much mods to get specific hp, its a bit hard to believe to see higher figures on street cars with bolt on mods. Mind you, I am used to seeing Subaru motors on restrictors. Those dam rules !!

Oh well, boost on !! What the hell do I know...


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Old 03-31-2002, 01:36 AM   #5
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Quote:
Originally posted by mitch808
Congrats Al, Hope you don't mind me calling you Al.


But anywho... Cmpared to your "Street Tuning" and these guys going at your Motec... How far were you off in settings? I'm just curious as to how good street tuning can be vs a dyno.
Al's great

First - the motec did not work out - I have another popular stand alone

Actually - after several months of street tune - I was very very close to the limits of the WRX engine on my seat of pants tuning - the Knock Link is invaluable with the WRX - you push it till you see some detonation and just back off a bit - I was lucky that the engine held together and lasted over the course of many mishaps

What the dyno was helpful for was - first - making the curve as big as possible and adding power on the low and mid range and second - helping to figure out how much max boost to use and how far to go on ignition timing - - when I started to see diminishing returns thats when it was time to stop pushing - also - it was invaluable to have an expert who really understands car tunning to guide the progress
In the end - you can street tune - but it takes so long and exposes you to tickets and accidents so the DYNO is much more easy and accurate !
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Old 03-31-2002, 01:47 AM   #6
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Quote:
Originally posted by Ver.III
Congrats Al . Those are very impressive figures. Though I don't know your driving habbits, I know that engine won't last long if I had it doing auto-x 's , track days, rallyspirnts and winter rally series. I guess for the average pedal sqeezer, the engine will last a long time.

I do have a little doubt in the accuracy of these wheel hp dynos though. I find figures vary from dyno to dyno, whether improper calibration or purposly tampered. I have seen quite a few rally engines on engine dynos, and when I see how much mods to get specific hp, its a bit hard to believe to see higher figures on street cars with bolt on mods. Mind you, I am used to seeing Subaru motors on restrictors. Those dam rules !!

Oh well, boost on !! What the hell do I know...


First - you should know that I've been operating at this power level since October and over 275 hp since last August - - with many auto x;s and lots of drag racing under my belt and months of hard street tunning and over 15,000 miles with no problems - so its been quite reliable

Second - just a few weeks ago Dan from Godspeed pulled 311 HP on a dynopak dyno with very similaf mods - 1818 turbo in his case so my results are hardly an aberation - i thinjk any one can get 320 hp or a bit more with simple bolt on mods - the rally cars have serious restrictor plates - and from what i heard the US version prodrive rally car makes about 390 HP with a stock block

Third - since i pulled 275 hp on the stock injectors - i've been adding more and more goodies and have seen my HP go up and up and up - - If www.turboxs.com is dyno tuning wrx's with exhuasts; injectors and a vf30 turbo at 280 hp - then with the extra mods of stand alone ecu; headers; bigger turbo; and even bigger injectors then TO ME it seems very logical that I could get an extra 40 hp - it all adds up

Last edited by alfriedesq; 03-31-2002 at 02:04 AM.
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Old 03-31-2002, 01:57 AM   #7
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Default Re: Whoopass - New WRX dyno record set at Pruven Performance - 324 wheel HP !!!

Quote:
Originally posted by alfriedesq
Tonight I was lucky to get some time on the brand new 4 wd dyno jet dyno at Pruven Performance in Milford, CT - - They just got this dyno and they have recieved Cobb tunning approval as the North East Cobb dealer and dyno center

First let me say these guys are SERIOUS professionals and really gave me excelent advice and service in every respect - they have a wonderful facility and they BLOW away everyone else I have ever seen in the car performance industry - - they really know what they are doing and work hard to make you very happy

It seems that Puven is moving into the world of WRX tunning after over 6 years with DMS and Supras - they know what they are doing ! They have a 9 second DMS with stock block and tranny to prove it !

OK - the results

324.00 wheel HP at 20.5 psi of boost

305 Max torque

This was with no detonation at all

My research indicates that my theory on the 1820 turbo is correct - you need a fmic to cool the charge to reap the benefits

Pruven helped me to get extra spool up - (7 extra HP at 4,000 rpm) by retarding my timing 5 degrees to make more egt's and more exhaust gases at low rpms

After spending a couple of hours on the dyno - the experts at Pruven are of the opinion that this is about the MAX hp you can get safely from a stock WRX block without head work and makeing the bottom end stronger - - it seemed that any further adjustments - eg leaning; ign advance or boost did NOT have any additional improvements in HP

I don't think there are any additional easy BOLT on mods that I can make at this point to get more power - I need to decide if its worthwhile to spend additional funds on the engine internals - OR whether or not to just enjoy the car the way it is !!!

Sadly - as these guys are DMS experts - and they were doing a DMS dyno tune right before mine - - I am realizing that the WRX is not the best car in the world for bolt on HP mods - - they pointed out to me that a DMS could make much more HP on the stock engine for a lot less $$$ investment ! (Maybe I should save my engione mod $$$ for a deposit on the new evo VII which I just saw at the NY auto show yesterday??)))

My car is running like a clock now - it sounds and drive so much better and its very very fast now

I really appreciate the time; energy and help of Pruven Performance and would NOT hesitate to reccomend them 100% to fellow i-clubbers with a unichip or stand alone who need tunning

I'll post the dyno sheets on Mondat when i get to a scanner
It is DSM, not DMS .......DSM stands for Diamond Star Motors I believe. Yeah, DSM's are REALLY cheap to mod and make tons of power, I know a guy that runs 11.4'[email protected] and he built his car, including the price of the car for about 16k. Not bad.
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Old 03-31-2002, 01:59 AM   #8
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Sorry for the double post, but what is the WRX's drivetrain loss? Or better yet, how much crank hp are you making?
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Old 03-31-2002, 02:15 AM   #9
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Default Re: Re: Whoopass - New WRX dyno record set at Pruven Performance - 324 wheel HP !!!

Quote:
Originally posted by Blade


It is DSM, not DMS .......DSM stands for Diamond Star Motors I believe. Yeah, DSM's are REALLY cheap to mod and make tons of power, I know a guy that runs 11.4'[email protected] and he built his car, including the price of the car for about 16k. Not bad.
Yeah - i always get the DMS coil overs and DSM crazy fast cars confused

My sighting of the Evo VII yestreday and the sighting of some dope ass DSM's at Proven performance has me seriously demoralized with my WRX progress - - its real sad that they say i could get over 400 WHEEL HP on a DSM with about $6,000 in mods - can you imagine the evo vii's that will be running around next year ???

It saddens me becuase I think the limit on the WRX is about the power I just made on the stock block and heads - and although its real fast and fun - I WANT MORE!!!
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Old 03-31-2002, 02:17 AM   #10
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Quote:
Originally posted by Blade
Sorry for the double post, but what is the WRX's drivetrain loss? Or better yet, how much crank hp are you making?
No clue - anyone have any clue ??? ( - about 400HP>>>??)
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Old 03-31-2002, 02:17 AM   #11
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get thyself to a track, i wanna see an 11 second time slip on a stock wrx block

yes, im being selfish
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Old 03-31-2002, 02:34 AM   #12
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Sorry, but that's a bunch of guff. Just because more timing or boost didn't make more power doesn't at _all_ mean that the stock bottom end can't make more power. The PE1820 is _not_ a big turbo. It just isn't. When the guys with the FP Green start bottoming out 100hp beneath their DSM counterparts, THEN they can say something. How exactly is a forged bottom end going to suddenly allow you to make more power? If you weren't breaking parts, then where is the problem? Or are they talking about bumping the compression?

Don't feel bad about your wrx. There are EJ25s making vastly more power than any dsm for the same boost. And that displacement advantage is something they simply don't have. And never will.

Funny thing is, I was a Galant VR4 owner, and that experience was enough to convince me not to buy another DSM. Take that for what you will.
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Old 03-31-2002, 02:37 AM   #13
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[quote]Originally posted by alfriedesq
[b]First - - and from what i heard the US version prodrive rally car makes about 390 HP with a stock block



Well, this is the one area where I think I know more, I can assure you that those engines are NOT STOCK. I know for a fact, at least on Lovell's new car that is is a closed deck block that has been o-ringed. More less what the WRC cars are using. And I imagine that Ramana's car is simular in set up.


Anyways Al , its all good !
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Old 03-31-2002, 02:54 AM   #14
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Quote:
Originally posted by Conduit
Sorry, but that's a bunch of guff. Just because more timing or boost didn't make more power doesn't at _all_ mean that the stock bottom end can't make more power. The PE1820 is _not_ a big turbo. It just isn't. When the guys with the FP Green start bottoming out 100hp beneath their DSM counterparts, THEN they can say something. How exactly is a forged bottom end going to suddenly allow you to make more power? If you weren't breaking parts, then where is the problem? Or are they talking about bumping the compression?

Don't feel bad about your wrx. There are EJ25s making vastly more power than any dsm for the same boost. And that displacement advantage is something they simply don't have. And never will.

Funny thing is, I was a Galant VR4 owner, and that experience was enough to convince me not to buy another DSM. Take that for what you will.
My feeling is that with the head work i feel I need to do to unleash more HP with the WRX I'll be headed to very unreliable territory on my stock block - this is just my own personal opinion on this - I have no evidence or proof to back this up

My only tangible evidence is that when i find myself in the middle of the 1820's sweet spot on the turbo - an increase in boost does NOT result in the expected coresponding increase in power - - MY suspiscion is that the exhust ports need work in the head - and if you look at Cobb tunning web site you will see the same

With Alex and Nathan hard at work on engine internal mods - - it seems to ME that there is not much else I have left to do on my car to get more power except maybe swap out the turbo ??? When the HKS kit comes out I am sure i will tryt it out and see if it can make the same levels of HP while hopefully giving faster spool up - - there are other cars running the "green" turbo and SO FAR they have failed to yield any results which indiacte more power tham me (alas those guys want to play with the stock ecu - so that may be holding them back)

IF someone comes along with a better result with a bigger turbo - then I am sure i will be buying a new turbo in about 2 secs - it sure wont be hard to bolt on that turbo !!!!

Final very interesting point

The car right before me - the amzing looking DSM - it made almost exactly the same total wheel HP as my car

BUT - it had a bit more spool up in the sub 4,000 rpm range - - while my PE1820 had a increase over the DSM from 4,000 rpm to 6,000 where they were the same to 7,000

The DSM guy had many of the same bolt on mods as me and we were getting very similar results - -

I'll believe it when i see someone who bolts on a bigger turbo and gets substaintially more HP than i just got on a stock internals

I'd love for it to happen - but my long hours of research on the WRX indiacte to my satisfaction that we need to look INSIDE the engine for more HP
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Old 03-31-2002, 03:09 AM   #15
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Correction = just realized - I can still extrude hone the intake manifold - switch it to face front and remove the TVG and get a bigger thorttle body - but how much HP will this get me on the restrictive heads and exhuast ports ????
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Old 03-31-2002, 03:35 AM   #16
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Al, what ECU are you using? I know it's not Motec as stated above.

Mike
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Old 03-31-2002, 03:47 AM   #17
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Al-- So I guess that baseline WRX TEC-II map is working out well for you, huh?



And yep, the Pruven guys are cool. I did a big East Coast Subaru TEC-II tuning day there last year.

Cheers,
shiv
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Old 03-31-2002, 03:54 AM   #18
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question...answered?

Quote:
Originally posted by mpj_becks
Al, what ECU are you using? I know it's not Motec as stated above.
Quote:
Originally posted by Vishnu Performance
Al-- So I guess that baseline WRX TEC-II map is working out well for you, huh?

Cheers,
shiv
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Old 03-31-2002, 04:22 AM   #19
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Nice work. Enjoy your car, you deserve it.
Congrats,
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Old 03-31-2002, 05:57 AM   #20
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Errr.. that might be a record in the US, but.... ;-)

I haven't read the entire thread but those numbers are very good. You are almost at the point where we see the stock rods and bolts say they don't want to play anymore. Be warned ;-)

Here's something to aim for:
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Old 03-31-2002, 08:56 AM   #21
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Dude, you gotta let me know when you bring it back out to Atco next!
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Old 03-31-2002, 10:07 AM   #22
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Al, do you now realize what I had told you about those 4g63 engines in the eclipses???, yes.. wrx 2.0 might not be the beast to kick their arses, but I can`t wait to see what they can do against my fully cobb 2.5 engine with the vishnu, upgraded turbo kit and my tecII runing 750cc injectors, and the other stuffs.. I am really close to get all parts, engine almost ready as well as turbo..... of course is a lot of more money to get more Hp than they.... but we have to do it!!!!!!!

Come on 2.5 guys!!!!! (Happy, Shiv, Dan_e) show us some 1/4 miles on race gas!!! and brake the records.. so let`s show everyboy what our bigger displacement could do, let`s prove, one more time, what the WRX could be!!!!!!

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Old 03-31-2002, 10:20 AM   #23
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So Al, what makes you think it's not possible to make 400 whp for 6k in a WRX?

It's Very Possible.... !!

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Old 03-31-2002, 10:27 AM   #24
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Congrat's Al... new dyno champ... get that thing to a drag strip near you!
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Old 03-31-2002, 11:17 AM   #25
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Quote:
Originally posted by Conduit
Sorry, but that's a bunch of guff. Just because more timing or boost didn't make more power doesn't at _all_ mean that the stock bottom end can't make more power. The PE1820 is _not_ a big turbo. It just isn't. When the guys with the FP Green start bottoming out 100hp beneath their DSM counterparts, THEN they can say something. How exactly is a forged bottom end going to suddenly allow you to make more power? If you weren't breaking parts, then where is the problem? Or are they talking about bumping the compression?

Don't feel bad about your wrx. There are EJ25s making vastly more power than any dsm for the same boost. And that displacement advantage is something they simply don't have. And never will.

Funny thing is, I was a Galant VR4 owner, and that experience was enough to convince me not to buy another DSM. Take that for what you will.
finally someone with some logic...thank you conduit for posting something worthwhile.

Al...how the heck do you know what the bottomend in every WRX can stand?

The only thing you know is what your setup can do...you are simply making assumptions that everyone else's setup can never reach your status.
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