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Old 05-15-2002, 01:50 AM   #1
alfriedesq
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Default 308 HP - 93 octane - Super AFC - Pruven Performance - (who needs a unchip anyway?)

Thanks to the genious of Pruven Performance . . . .

Got 23 HP increase on my otherwise stock new age sti ecu and engine (exahust and turbo changed)

went from 285 baseline to 308 HP at 19 psi on 93 octane street gas !

I felt that the stock ecu was capable of handling the timing aspects and that it was just dumping fuel and running very rich

With my new motor - I was leary to install and tune my Tec II kit (major project) becuase I have seen many people match my dyno results on street gas with the unichip - not to metion Impreziv's amazing stock turbo record with the super afc last summer

Anyway - I wanted to try something very cheap and quick

Thanks again to the master tunners at Pruven Performance - a few buttons to click and my fuel curve was looking flatter and better than ever !!!!!!

The Super AFC is a great WRX option that many are overlooking - I do not know why more people aren;t trying the super afc - it would be interesting to see what gains Pruven Performance would be able to make on a bone stock WRX with the Super AFC

I rather have a custom tunned Super AFC matched to my car (and able to accept user defined adjustments) than an off the shelf unichip which is an approximation based upon a generic tunning map

Can't wait to get some race gas - crank up the boost , lean it out a bit and head for the track !!!
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Old 05-15-2002, 02:09 AM   #2
mitch808
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Quote:
Taken from Apexi website
On hot-wire vehicles, the Deceleration Air Flow Correction function is capable of curing the erratic idle and stall problems associated with open-atmosphere blow-off valves on hot-wire air-flow meter systems.


Al, can you answer this for me? So if I added a 100% venting BOV, this unit could solve the rich conditions that WRX's see on those types of BOV's.
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Old 05-15-2002, 02:16 AM   #3
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Default Re: 308 HP - 93 octane - Super AFC - Pruven Performance - (who needs a unchip anyway?)

maybe we aren't using super-AFCs because there isnt a comprable device yet to control timing.

I have no doubt your power numbers are fine.

but out of whack timing can really screw up a motor, even without detonation.

*shrug*


Quote:
Originally posted by alfriedesq
Thanks to the genious of Pruven Performance . . . .

Got 23 HP increase on my otherwise stock new age sti ecu and engine (exahust and turbo changed)

went from 285 baseline to 308 HP at 19 psi on 93 octane street gas !

I felt that the stock ecu was capable of handling the timing aspects and that it was just dumping fuel and running very rich

With my new motor - I was leary to install and tune my Tec II kit (major project) becuase I have seen many people match my dyno results on street gas with the unichip - not to metion Impreziv's amazing stock turbo record with the super afc last summer

Anyway - I wanted to try something very cheap and quick

Thanks again to the master tunners at Pruven Performance - a few buttons to click and my fuel curve was looking flatter and better than ever !!!!!!

The Super AFC is a great WRX option that many are overlooking - I do not know why more people aren;t trying the super afc - it would be interesting to see what gains Pruven Performance would be able to make on a bone stock WRX with the Super AFC

I rather have a custom tunned Super AFC matched to my car (and able to accept user defined adjustments) than an off the shelf unichip which is an approximation based upon a generic tunning map

Can't wait to get some race gas - crank up the boost , lean it out a bit and head for the track !!!
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Old 05-15-2002, 02:24 AM   #4
alfriedesq
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Default Re: Re: 308 HP - 93 octane - Super AFC - Pruven Performance - (who needs a unchip anyway?)

Quote:
Originally posted by jmott
maybe we aren't using super-AFCs because there isnt a comprable device yet to control timing.

I have no doubt your power numbers are fine.

but out of whack timing can really screw up a motor, even without detonation.

*shrug*


And the WRX ecu changes timing all the time - unichip or no unichip - for instance - if the temp drops it pulls timing
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Old 05-15-2002, 02:25 AM   #5
alfriedesq
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Quote:
Originally posted by mitch808




Al, can you answer this for me? So if I added a 100% venting BOV, this unit could solve the rich conditions that WRX's see on those types of BOV's.
I am sure yes - but contact www.pruvenperformance.com to make sure !
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Old 05-15-2002, 02:32 AM   #6
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Default Re: Re: Re: 308 HP - 93 octane - Super AFC - Pruven Performance - (who needs a unchip anyway?)

Quote:
Originally posted by alfriedesq
And the WRX ecu changes timing all the time - unichip or no unichip - for instance - if the temp drops it pulls timing
have you considered that perhaps theres a good reason for that al?

maybe shiv and trey and mark are just morons.

really you don't need to modify the timing curve at all!
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Old 05-15-2002, 02:37 AM   #7
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Default Re: Re: Re: Re: 308 HP - 93 octane - Super AFC - Pruven Performance - (who needs a unchip anyway?)

Quote:
Originally posted by jmott


have you considered that perhaps theres a good reason for that al?

maybe shiv and trey and mark are just morons.

really you don't need to modify the timing curve at all!
And the engineers at Subaru are morons also - !! Thats why i know of 6 unichip tunned engines that blew up
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Old 05-15-2002, 05:41 AM   #8
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I'm just curious, does the dyno give "estimated" crank hp/torque ? and if so, what type of figures does 308bhp ATW's equate to ?

Happy.
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Old 05-15-2002, 05:59 AM   #9
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Default Re: Re: 308 HP - 93 octane - Super AFC - Pruven Performance - (who needs a unchip anyway?)

Quote:
Originally posted by jmott
maybe we aren't using super-AFCs because there isnt a comprable device yet to control timing.
Patients my son, patients

Jay
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Old 05-15-2002, 06:07 AM   #10
Happy
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Default Re: Re: Re: 308 HP - 93 octane - Super AFC - Pruven Performance - (who needs a unchip anyway?)

Quote:
Originally posted by JayGold


Patients my son, patients

Jay
sorry, are all the ignition controllers in hospital ?

I apologise for my sarcastic sense of humour. or lack of it

Happy.
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Old 05-15-2002, 06:16 AM   #11
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Default Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: 308 HP - 93 octane - Super AFC - Pruven Performance - (who needs a unchip anyway

Quote:
Originally posted by alfriedesq
And the engineers at Subaru are morons also - !!
After seeing what blow-by did to my IC piping and the pool of fluid I found on the IC-to-throttlebody hose I can agree with you on this one.

Quote:
[i]
Thats why i know of 6 unichip tunned engines that blew up [/b]
The way I look at it, TurboXS is providing a temporary solution with the Unichip, the real results come from making an appointment for a dyno run with a device capable of correcting the "freak" timing issues (as documented by Jorge aka:RiftsWRX) along with the Unichip to obtain a reliable, trustworthy, and inexpensive solution for those wanting to retain their stock ECM units.

I have taken the Unichip route with my own vehicle, ONLY as a temporary solution inwhich I will refrain from running hard until the timing issues can be resolved. Basically the Unichip is my break-in device for my set-up

Jay
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Old 05-15-2002, 06:23 AM   #12
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good numbers
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Old 05-15-2002, 06:33 AM   #13
Happy
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Default Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: 308 HP - 93 octane - Super AFC - Pruven Performance - (who needs a unchip an

Quote:
Originally posted by JayGold




The way I look at it, TurboXS is providing a temporary solution with the Unichip, the real results come from making an appointment for a dyno run with a device capable of correcting the "freak" timing issues (as documented by Jorge aka:RiftsWRX) along with the Unichip to obtain a reliable, trustworthy, and inexpensive solution for those wanting to retain their stock ECM units.


Jay
It may be the way that you are looking at it, but it isn't the way the product is sold.

These so called "freak timing issues", aren't FREAK at all.

Put a timing light on a few cars, and you'll see what I mean. I seem to recall saying, that anyone who uses a "generic" map, without getting it checked out on the dyno, or by someone who knows what he's doing, is CRAZY. I stand by that.

I checked two cars at the weekend, and there was a 10 degree difference in the static timing !!!!

Happy.
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Old 05-15-2002, 09:53 AM   #14
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Great job Al this is with the the AFC, headers, fmic, pe1820, turboback and sti block...

@ what RPM did you make peak power?
What was your peak torque?
What doesn't the dyno plot look like after 7k rpm?
How much boost did you run to make 308hp?
I also take i that you think the AFC with the STI computer is better than having a Standalone?
What was your horsepower lastime you went to pruven on pump gas?
I suppose if you only make 15 to 20 more horsepower you will say it's the block right? time for a better turbo Al!
More questions Later...



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Last edited by Imprezd; 05-15-2002 at 10:39 AM.
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Old 05-15-2002, 09:56 AM   #15
GM02WRX
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Alfredesq, would you mind sharing your list of mods w/ us??
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Old 05-15-2002, 10:39 AM   #16
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Quote:
Originally posted by alfriedesq
And the engineers at Subaru are morons also - !! Thats why i know of 6 unichip tunned engines that blew up
Of the 6 that have blown up how many were due to bad unichips and not poor tunning. I know through conversations that the most recent one was a combination of a bad unichip and the driver being not so bright. So what about the other five. I know that a Unichip with a off the shelf map is not the best route, but I live 2 days drive from the nearest tunner, and taking 4 days off from work and the family is not in the equation for the time being, so a generic map will have to do, until I can either afford a link, tec II/III, AEM or what ever else may come out in the future.

Is there anyone who has seen how timing acts on the RS or DSM's. I know that the DSM's can run more boost with less advance, where we are more advance and a little less boost. But are there variation from RS to RS or DSM to DSM. I know that 10 deg is a lot of difference for there to be at idle, but were the cars the same mod wise, what fuel were they running, etc.

Troy
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Old 05-15-2002, 10:42 AM   #17
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Default Re: Re: Re: 308 HP - 93 octane - Super AFC - Pruven Performance - (who needs a unchip anyway?)

Quote:
Originally posted by alfriedesq
And the WRX ecu changes timing all the time - unichip or no unichip - for instance - if the temp drops it pulls timing
Exactly......

And you have a V.VII ECU....

Al... what you need to do, is take your ECU out of the car and throw it in a GDA... see if it fires and runs.. IF it does... then we are talking some possibilities...

Jorge (RiftsWRX)
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Old 05-15-2002, 10:44 AM   #18
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Jorge so far I was quoted a decent price for an ECU, but it won't be worth it unless someone lets me give it a try to see how it runs if it runs without going in to limp mode.


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Old 05-15-2002, 10:49 AM   #19
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Quote:
Originally posted by Imprezd
Jorge so far I was quoted a decent price for an ECU, but it won't be worth it unless someone lets me give it a try to see how it runs if it runs without going in to limp mode.


Imprezd~
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Al?

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Old 05-15-2002, 11:35 AM   #20
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Default C'mon Guys....

First I want to congraulate Al on the 308 horsepower dyno run.
Second, I want to shed some light on tuning issues. If you have a turbocharged car and you start to screw with your boost, change exhausts, air filters, blowoff valves, turbochargers, ect... you must have your car dynotuned. To tune your car effectively you need control over your timing and fuel maps. It doesn't really matter how you do it/ whether it be a unichip or aftermarket fuel injection system. Now for all of this unichip bashing, I feel as though Unichip is getting a bad rep for all of those people out there who are screwing with boost settings, adding exhaust, ect... and not going to get there car dyno'd after their mods are installed. I also believe that the majority of people who are tuning the Unichips may not be capable of tunning veh's to achieve extreme power outputs. Maybe they are tuning veh's to run safely so they don't blow holes in the pistons for liability and namesake reasons. There are many different ways to tune a car but the best is with a dyno, wideband O2 sensor and a aftermarket fuel injection system that you can adjust to achieve the best fuel maps and timing curves to achieve the most horsepower. I have seen great results with just about every aftermarket injection system. It all depends on who is tunning your car.
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Old 05-15-2002, 11:37 AM   #21
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As I have said all along..the SAFC/SAFR are KICK ASS pieces. They are far more sophistiacated than most people, even those that have them, realize, but they are not easy to master.

Good numbers Al - glad to see they had one for you...they are being phased out now, so stocks are very low on SAFC's!

As far as timing, agreed that it would be nice to adjust timing as well, but the stock timing curve of the car is quite nice, and naturally lends itself to a turbo application...the fuel tables ont he other hand stink from the factory, and as such, the SAFC works wonders. There are cxountless DSM's that run otherwise stock ecu's with just SAFC's and are much quicker than most WRX's out there.

Happy also touched on something I have said so much in the past, yet which has gone largely ignored....cars are like fingerprints: each one is different. Just becuase the factories are automated does not mean every car rolls off the assembly line the same. As such, comparing dyno numbers, etc. largely becomes a waste of time unless we know for a fact what we are using as our fixed baselines!

Al - did they lean you out some across the board on both low and high tables?

adam
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Old 05-15-2002, 11:39 AM   #22
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i have been trying to tell everyone that unichip is ok for someone that does not know how to tune a car or someone who does not have the time to tune it. unichip is a lot of money for something that i can't adjust. i'm sick of every dealer out there trying to sell everyone a $700 unichip and then charge you to send it back and re map the thing evertime you mod something. it's a joke if you ask me.

just my 2 cents

nice #s alfriedesq

i never had any unichip thingy in my 365 HP Galant VR4 and it never blew up

no unichip thingy in my buddys 552HP at the wheels supra or the cossie the we are rebuilding right now. yes a cosworth escort that will be at New England dragway very soon that should be a fun little car.

the key is know what your doing or find out what to do before you do it from someone that knows how to.

no one knows everything here and there always someone that knows more than you i don't car who you are so ask and get a few opions and make your discision and hope its the right one
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Old 05-15-2002, 11:54 AM   #23
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The way i see it is each unit has a it certain place in the Market... SAFC has it's spot... Unichip Has it spot and Full EMS's have their place... So it's right to say one is better than the other is each is own way... As most stuff around here is sold based upon what the buyer has plans to do...


Some buyers don't know the first thing about tuning and some do... those that do tend to go a different route. Unichip has it downfalls and the AFC has it's down falls..

"Each unit own and deserves it rightful place in the market"

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Old 05-15-2002, 12:03 PM   #24
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Good job Al. When you gonna take me for a ride in that pig?

Anyway, I just recently decided to buy a unichip and do away with the SAFC. Im already having a few thoughts that I should not have done that, but whatever. I need the car to live and I cant deal with the whole tuning thing anymore, and since I am not going to the track every weekend like I was and dumping race gas in, I dont really need the self tuning aspect. As a matter of fact, the car should be going in tomorrow to get finished and then I am done, for now. I'll probably go to Pruven or head down to Mark and pull a few dyno runs. We will see.

See ya!

Pete
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Old 05-15-2002, 12:26 PM   #25
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Al,
Didn't you leave there last time with like 324hp at the wheels? What did you run at the track after that dyno tune? [email protected] right?

Two observations;
1. You have added a bunch of parts to your car since the last time you were on the turboxs dyno (tec2, headers, intercooler, lots of other stuff all pre-motor swap) and not gotten any faster than your initial unichip time and yet you post "who needs a unichip?" I'd say you might want to look into one.

2. You've lost a good deal of HP since the last time you were on the proven dyno which tells me the Safc is not really up to the task.

Ask Chad from Evolution racing sports about the fun of trying to play with a stock ECU and an AFC. He is making power, but is quite a bit down from where he should be with his modifications.


-Nathan

Last edited by nmyeti; 05-15-2002 at 12:32 PM.
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