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Old 02-19-2020, 09:58 AM   #926
NighthawkSTI
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This rendering incorporates features from Viziv Performance STI Concept and the recently unveiled Levorg, so it is clearly recent. It is likely very close to what the next STI will look like, though I don't think the front lower fascia or the front fender vents will look like that.

A hybrid STI like you describe would be neat, but also extremely expensive. If it were to happen, it would be a separate vehicle like all other Subaru hybrids so far.
Thanks for the input, I agree about the hybrid costs, but I dont think they have any choice since EV's are about to explode into the market place..and its something they have hinted about as the current GEN's were revealed in 2015. Their announcement a couple of weeks ago about revamping the lineup for electrification etc etc. At the end of the day...its something they CAN'T afford NOT to do. My main point is that all this speculation about a new engine is moot as that drivetrain wont be in production very long in the same configuration as the electric drive is rolled out on top of it, such that as the EJ257 was in production in the STI for 20 years, the new drivetrain will probably on survive in its introductory configuration for 3 years.

That rendering is "refreshed" that same rendering has been released before the exhaust tips and the flat rear design I recall very clearly....it may or may not have had the large wheel and brakes back then when it was released the first time. But I agree...its most likely not the next STI.

These are exciting times in the auto industry for sure! The fastest cars in history are being produced, safety and technology are innovating at an INCREDIBLY fast pace, and the birth of the mass produced electric model line up is happening NOW!!! Just amazing.
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Old 02-19-2020, 10:07 AM   #927
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An electric Subaru is going to be totally disinteresting. It will be a mediocre car with a mediocre interior and an electric motor for each wheel. Telsa has been doing that for a while now.
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Old 02-19-2020, 10:18 AM   #928
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An electric Subaru is going to be totally disinteresting. It will be a mediocre car with a mediocre interior and an electric motor for each wheel. Telsa has been doing that for a while now.
That's where the industry is headed though, the only real differences will be the badge, exterior styling (to a point), interior styling/layout and user interface (both physical and graphical).
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Old 02-19-2020, 10:18 AM   #929
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An electric Subaru is going to be totally disinteresting. It will be a mediocre car with a mediocre interior and an electric motor for each wheel. Telsa has been doing that for a while now.
An electric motor on each wheel would actually be quite interesting. Tesla only makes dual motors (one for each axle). They are talking about a tri-motor soon, but as far as I know nobody has done a quad motor.

Quad motor would be really interesting because you could do unlimited torque vectoring and really trick stability control. Would also help with launch control because you could give each wheel the EXACT maximum power that can be put down. The reason it hasn't been done yet is weight, cost, and complexity.

The issue with Subarus and EVs is that a good EV requires a dedicated EV platform. They are still likely several years away from having one. Stuffing some batteries in an existing platform ALWAYS results in a lackluster also-ran of an EV because an EV chassis needs to be designed from the ground up to optimize battery and electric motor packaging.
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Old 02-19-2020, 10:21 AM   #930
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Here you have another awkward photoshop.
I should have worked better the wing placement, but I had to stop because my boss has M-B and might not be a Subaru fan... but here it is.

Not to spoil it again, but here's a reminder of what it will look like. Fascia, especially lower will be different, it will have vents behind front wheels. Maybe a more CTR-ish wing. Rear end will look a lot like the render. So yes, ugly as usual.

"Cheap, fast, attractive: pick two" comes to mind. At least ugly and practical aren't mutually exclusive.
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Old 02-19-2020, 11:10 AM   #931
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So yes, ugly as usual.

"Cheap, fast, attractive: pick two" comes to mind. At least ugly and practical aren't mutually exclusive.
I'm not ashamed to admit I like the look of every WRX and STI sedan Subaru has sold in the U.S. so far. I can pass on the STI wing, but other than that, I'm good. If that puts me in the minority, so be it. Most design fads and the ever-changing general consensus about what constitutes an attractive car annoy me. I roll my eyes at the sloped roof of every current Accord and the overwrought taillights of every current CR-V I see, while reviewers heap love on them.

Subaru has lost a lot of their old who-gives-a-damn independent streak in the last 15 years, but I'm glad some if it is still there, and I'm looking forward to the look of the new WRX/STI if it continues that trend.

Let's look at it this way: if the car is so good that the only thing the magazines have to complain about is the looks--and you know they will, because "criticize styling" is on their checklist for every Subaru review they write--I'll consider that a win
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Old 02-19-2020, 11:29 AM   #932
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An electric motor on each wheel would actually be quite interesting. Tesla only makes dual motors (one for each axle). They are talking about a tri-motor soon, but as far as I know nobody has done a quad motor.

Quad motor would be really interesting because you could do unlimited torque vectoring and really trick stability control. Would also help with launch control because you could give each wheel the EXACT maximum power that can be put down. The reason it hasn't been done yet is weight, cost, and complexity.

The issue with Subarus and EVs is that a good EV requires a dedicated EV platform. They are still likely several years away from having one. Stuffing some batteries in an existing platform ALWAYS results in a lackluster also-ran of an EV because an EV chassis needs to be designed from the ground up to optimize battery and electric motor packaging.
Recent reports and patent filings show Ferrari's EV could have quad motors. But that'll bring Ferrari's prices too.
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Old 02-19-2020, 12:00 PM   #933
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I'm not ashamed to admit I like the look of every WRX and STI sedan Subaru has sold in the U.S. so far. I can pass on the STI wing, but other than that, I'm good.
I actually totally agree. Some things look more wonky than others here and there over the years, but yea, everything has been fine on average. Ugly, but lovable.

I have never owned an STI sedan with The Big Wing. This might be why it could be acceptable to me today - hasn't been checked off the list so to speak. Though I would definitely go with a more stealth/low-key color than WRB.
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Old 02-19-2020, 12:01 PM   #934
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Just look what GM announced this week. No more GM gas cars are going to be sold in Austrailia Tialand and New Zeland. They are pulling the plug( HA! see what I did there?!)..even the Monaro is getting the boot. Why? They are preparing those markets for all electric cars instead. Probably 2023 those markets will be GM all electric cars.
GM is pulling out of Australia, New Zealand, and Thailand and reducing presence in Asia (especially RHD markets), because it is not profitable. They sold their manufacturing plant in Thailand and already shut down manufacturing in Australia. They already pulled out of Vietnam, South Africa, and East Africa. They stopped selling vehicles in India but still manufacture there. GM is going to focus on North America, South America, Middle East, and South Korea where they are making money.

They are only going to commit the Camaro, Corvette, and Silverado in RHD configuration in Australia and New Zealand under a GM Specialty Vehicle brand. They will be keeping services and parts going for 10 years for Holden vehicles. They do plan on offering the Corvette in RHD for Japan.

They want to focus on investing in EV's and autonomous tech but there have been no indications that they will offer future EV's in those markets that they exit.
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Old 02-19-2020, 12:11 PM   #935
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I actually totally agree. Some things look more wonky than others here and there over the years, but yea, everything has been fine on average. Ugly, but lovable.
Agree. The only consistent thing is many people hate a new Subaru design then warm up to it. Subaru's are never going to win best in show but they are ugly lovable and boring all at once.

The one design that most people love is the GC design (2.5RS, WRX, 22B), but when you actually look at it, it looked like most things coming out of Japan at the time, except for a hood scoop, some hood vents, and large fog lights.
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Old 02-19-2020, 12:21 PM   #936
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I have never owned an STI sedan with The Big Wing. This might be why it could be acceptable to me today - hasn't been checked off the list so to speak. Though I would definitely go with a more stealth/low-key color than WRB.
My STI Limited (wing-delete) in silver is pretty low-key-looking and I like it that way. Yeah, there's still the hood scoop, but I don't think those attract nearly as much attention as gigantic wings, especially with TRD decoratively adding them to pickups and such.

If people comment on some aspect of my car's looks, it's the huge fluorescent chartreuse brake calipers. Pretty bold choice Subaru made with that color.
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Old 02-19-2020, 12:31 PM   #937
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My STI Limited (wing-delete) in silver is pretty low-key-looking and I like it that way. Yeah, there's still the hood scoop, but I don't think those attract nearly as much attention as gigantic wings, especially with TRD decoratively adding them to pickups and such.

If people comment on some aspect of my car's looks, it's the huge fluorescent chartreuse brake calipers. Pretty bold choice Subaru made with that color.
That is one of those colors that fades/discolors the least when exposed to the conditions brake calipers are exposed to; not saying that's why Subaru chose it, just pointing out the advantage of doing so.
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Old 02-19-2020, 12:39 PM   #938
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An electric motor on each wheel would actually be quite interesting. Tesla only makes dual motors (one for each axle). They are talking about a tri-motor soon, but as far as I know nobody has done a quad motor.

Quad motor would be really interesting because you could do unlimited torque vectoring and really trick stability control. Would also help with launch control because you could give each wheel the EXACT maximum power that can be put down. The reason it hasn't been done yet is weight, cost, and complexity.
.
GKN have already made something for this. It's called their "E-Twinster". They published availability last year and said something to the effect of multiple mfr's are already on board.

https://www.gknautomotive.com/en/sys...inster-module/
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Old 02-19-2020, 12:41 PM   #939
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That is one of those colors that fades/discolors the least when exposed to the conditions brake calipers are exposed to; not saying that's why Subaru chose it, just pointing out the advantage of doing so.
Makes sense. Especially since those Brembo pads don't mess around with the crap they give off.

The color seemed a bit much to me when I first saw it, but it has grown on me. Helps that my car is silver. Silver goes with just about anything (including hideous NY plates) but I can see those calipers clashing with some colors.

If the renders are to be trusted--and I'm not saying they are, but if--it seems the loud calipers might be sticking around.
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Old 02-19-2020, 12:51 PM   #940
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GKN have already made something for this. It's called their "E-Twinster". They published availability last year and said something to the effect of multiple mfr's are already on board.

https://www.gknautomotive.com/en/sys...inster-module/
We'll probably see it first in the form of hybrid AWD systems with the rear using the e-twinster. It would be fun to see an EV use it at both axles.
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Old 02-19-2020, 02:33 PM   #941
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Default 2021 WRX Info

Not sure if you guys saw this, but I believe this to be legitimate site with actual new information regarding 2021 WRX.

Subaru Announces Tentative 2020-MY Order Cutoff Dates, and 2021 Order Acceptance Dates

Here is the most relevant tidbit:

Quote:
Finally, the 2021 Subaru WRX and Subaru WRX Sti have an order acceptance set for mid-January 2021 and a first delivery month of April 2021.
So, some of you have predicted the normal Aug-Oct 2020 availability for MY2021 was not going to happen this year look to be correct. It will be probably April 2021, very late indeed for MY2021.

Do you think the delay a good sign that we are getting a new car?
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Old 02-19-2020, 02:41 PM   #942
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So, some of you have predicted the normal Aug-Oct 2020 availability for MY2021 was not going to happen this year look to be correct. It will be probably April 2021, very late indeed for MY2021.

Do you think the delay a good sign that we are getting a new car?
If that page is correct, then that pretty well clinches it as far as I'm concerned: 2021 is the new generation.

If they were simply carrying it over for yet another year, it would undoubtedly be announced late summer or early fall. We learned about the 2020 back in August.

Must be they needed a little extra time and Would. Not. Tolerate. Pushing. It. Another. Year. Amusingly, this is the first time in ages I've heard of a given year's model actually being released in that year, not months earlier.

I take this as a solid indication that it will be significantly updated. (Now, if there could just be some news on what the next car will actually be!)
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Old 02-19-2020, 02:55 PM   #943
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Originally Posted by geekpryde View Post
Not sure if you guys saw this, but I believe this to be legitimate site with actual new information regarding 2021 WRX.

Subaru Announces Tentative 2020-MY Order Cutoff Dates, and 2021 Order Acceptance Dates

Here is the most relevant tidbit:



So, some of you have predicted the normal Aug-Oct 2020 availability for MY2021 was not going to happen this year look to be correct. It will be probably April 2021, very late indeed for MY2021.

Do you think the delay a good sign that we are getting a new car?
It will be the next generation clearly, and I'd say it'll be right on time. The current generation went the same way - the '15 WRX and STI began delivery in April '14. Will have been a 7 year generation, right about same as generation before it.
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Old 02-19-2020, 02:59 PM   #944
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It will be the next generation clearly, and I'd say it'll be right on time. The current generation went the same way - the '15 WRX and STI began delivery in April '14. Will have been a 7 year generation, right about same as generation before it.
I count six years, if I'm reading the article right (2015-2020). In this case, it's almost a full year out of phase with the last gen. 2021 being rolled out in early 2021 as opposed to 2015 being rolled out in early 2014.

If so, that's really late, but maybe with good reason...
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Old 02-19-2020, 03:19 PM   #945
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I count six years, if I'm reading the article right (2015-2020). In this case, it's almost a full year out of phase with the last gen. 2021 being rolled out in early 2021 as opposed to 2015 being rolled out in early 2014.

If so, that's really late, but maybe with good reason...
Ah I see, yea that they would call it a 2021 when it goes on sale in April 2021. That is unusual. But still, will have been 7 years of current gen being on sale (April 14 to April 21.)

I can't recall how it played out back in 2013/2014, but I know there were last gen WRX/STI on sale as 2014 MY into late 2013, paving the way for the VA to be labeled a MY2015 when it went on sale in April 14. It never sat right with me that my car was built in wee-early 2014 but was labeled a 2015 MY

Edit - I found this. 2014's were orderable in 2013 up to some point before October 2013. When this article was published the cutoff was already crossed.

https://www.automotive-fleet.com/114...start-up-dates

Last edited by fredzy; 02-19-2020 at 03:31 PM.
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Old 02-19-2020, 03:30 PM   #946
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Ah I see, yea that they would call it a 2021 when it goes on sale in April 2021. That is unusual. But still, will have been 7 years of current gen being on sale (April 14 to April 21.)

I can't recall how it played out back in 2013/2014, but I know there were last gen WRX/STI on sale as 2014 MY into late 2013, paving the way for the VA to be labeled a MY2015 when it went on sale in April 14. It never sat right with me that my car was built in wee-early 2014 but was labeled a 2015 MY
Gotcha, seven actual years of it being available, not the number of model years considered part of that generation, which'll end up being six rather lengthy MY's.

Yeah, the year-labeling scheme gets a bit wonky and arbitrary when they're calling a car from early 2014 a 2015. Like people who mysteriously turn 29 the year after they turned 29.

If all of this is true, there'll have to be something at some upcoming auto show ... then some chance for journalists to drive it months before it's available to the public ... we must be really close to some kind of announcement. I'm not one to overhype things like this, but c'mon, the clock is ticking.
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Old 02-19-2020, 03:43 PM   #947
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If all of this is true, there'll have to be something at some upcoming auto show ... then some chance for journalists to drive it months before it's available to the public ... we must be really close to some kind of announcement. I'm not one to overhype things like this, but c'mon, the clock is ticking.
Yea, 2013 was a hype-train year for WRX. The ever-misleading WRX Concept, the one that gave the suckers boners thinking WRX/STI were going to be some kind of bespoke exotic rather than an Impreza-based vehicle () came early in New York. Then in the summer it was camo car city - still people somehow thought we were going to get something unlike a tarted up Impreza. Then the massive letdown of a slab-sided, good-for-nothing LUMP itself debuted in November in LA.

So we can expect to see something misleadingly awesome at NYIAS in April coming up here, followed by the gut-wrenching, sobering disappointment of reality in late November. For me, the primary source of disappointment will be the almost gaslighting-like ability of SOA to avoid acknowledging the existence of Levorg in any way.
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Old 02-19-2020, 04:02 PM   #948
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Yea, 2013 was a hype-train year for WRX. The ever-misleading WRX Concept, the one that gave the suckers boners thinking WRX/STI were going to be some kind of bespoke exotic rather than an Impreza-based vehicle () came early in New York. Then in the summer it was camo car city - still people somehow thought we were going to get something unlike a tarted up Impreza. Then the massive letdown of a slab-sided, good-for-nothing LUMP itself debuted in November in LA.

So we can expect to see something misleadingly awesome at NYIAS in April coming up here, followed by the gut-wrenching, sobering disappointment of reality in late November. For me, the primary source of disappointment will be the almost gaslighting-like ability of SOA to avoid acknowledging the existence of Levorg in any way.

At this rate the new STi will be an Ascent.
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Old 02-19-2020, 04:07 PM   #949
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Yea, 2013 was a hype-train year for WRX. The ever-misleading WRX Concept, the one that gave the suckers boners thinking WRX/STI were going to be some kind of bespoke exotic rather than an Impreza-based vehicle () came early in New York. Then in the summer it was camo car city - still people somehow thought we were going to get something unlike a tarted up Impreza. Then the massive letdown of a slab-sided, good-for-nothing LUMP itself debuted in November in LA.

So we can expect to see something misleadingly awesome at NYIAS in April coming up here, followed by the gut-wrenching, sobering disappointment of reality in late November. For me, the primary source of disappointment will be the almost gaslighting-like ability of SOA to avoid acknowledging the existence of Levorg in any way.
ah those poor credulous types. Hey, I like my tarted-up Impreza . I don't know how much the Impreza platform limited what they could do to it, performance-wise, but it did force the eventual WRX/STI to incorporate the Impreza's everyday-sedan practicality, which to me has always been part of its appeal.

I don't know if the misdirection from custom platform to Impreza-based car was intentional on their part, or if it was simply a reflection of changing financial realities. But whether intentional or not, it was genius in a way. The custom-platform thing generated lots of buzz and headlines, but when the actual Impreza-based beast emerged, it still won people over with its capabilities, and the pedestrian underpinnings were largely forgiven. I remember lots of positive reviews, including the STI beating a BMW and a Mercedes in a comparo. It's weird to think of that now, as harsh as the press has been on the STI these last couple years.

So, yes, prepare for the same rollercoaster ride over the next year. Any early leaked images should definitely be taken with a grain of salt. I don't care about that so much as what the underlying mechanicals are going to be, and the conflicting rumors have made that anybody's guess.
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Old 02-19-2020, 04:27 PM   #950
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At this rate the new STi will be an Ascent.
Would sell better, unfortunately

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ah those poor credulous types. Hey, I like my tarted-up Impreza . I don't know how much the Impreza platform limited what they could do to it, performance-wise, but it did force the eventual WRX/STI to incorporate the Impreza's everyday-sedan practicality, which to me has always been part of its appeal.
Oh exactly, that's my thing all day. If it's not going to have that practicality, the value isn't there. That concept looked cool, and did make me wonder whether they might go nuts and make a new sports car. But I was worried at the same time, because we found out fairly early in the game that we weren't getting the wagon, and something sexy to the point of impracticality could have steered me back to VW. When the camo cars showed up I was relieved in a way.

People savaged Subaru because of that concept, but almost every styling cue it featured made it to production in one way or another except the form factor. I don't think they will do that kind of concept again honestly - you could say we received them already with the Viziv's. But then what will they show early this year? Anything? It seems too soon for the almost-production "prototype" like the Levorg in October. Maybe they'll split the difference and debut the WRX Prototype in Detroit this summer.
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