Tesla Catch All Thread. Hate us cause you ain’t us.

[Masterauto]

wouldn't you rather the RAV4 Hybrid over the model Y ? Could cost nearly half and It will go 250k mi fairly trouble free, problems and service taken care of locally and 1/3 less cost roughly option dependent and better resale ?

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[edkwon]

[quote=Snow Drift;46371008

Oh, and while I'd say some Tesla people (who don't wave) are just luxury car buyers, the ones at meets and on the forums are all engineer/tech people like how the WRX used to be in the 2000s.[/QUOTE]

That's because it's mostly nerds (like us) who show up at car owners meets.

[godfather2112]

Originally Posted by YungBoba

I don't hate Tesla, moreso just some of the obnoxious owners but Pre makes a good point, not all of them are stuck-up pricks. In fact, most of them aren't, it just so happens that the obnoxious ones are also the most vocal and in-your-face about it.

My dad has a 75D and every time I drive it, I can't help but get a childish grin from ear to ear when I mash on the accelerator. That said, it's still annoying when Telsa bros say stuff like "why would you ever drive a regular gas car ever again" as they brag about their Model 3. Again, these are people who aren't car guys and who don't understand what car guys are into.

The Taycan is amazing and personally I am very interested to see what other automakers bring to the table as far as EV goes. Philosophically, I would rather buy from company who is an automaker first and foremost. We've seen from Tesla time and time again that they've run into QC issues, in large part because of their inexperience in building cars, despite their batteries and tech being pretty damn good.

Tesla owners are the new / current gen BMW type owners. Sure, there is a decent portion who are normal people. There is also a large / significant portion who are complete pricks. Speaking from person experience, i'd say 7/10 tesla owners in my area refuse to use turn signal, will abruptly accelerate next to me and cut me off, have some form of douche nozzle custom license plate, and are cruising the freeway with their hands off the wheel and nose deep in their phone.

The above combination of factors and better than other mentality is why people seem to hate Tesla (and also Elon Musk is the Pharma Bro of EV) which is a damn shame. I very much look forward to when I buy my first EV vehicle. I want to cut my carbon foot print, reduce any middle east revenue from oil and also cut down on any expenses if possible. That said, there isnt a vehicle that meets my needs for daily driving / work and it makes 0 financial sense to just dump a perfectly working vehicle for an EV.

I'd venture to say most Americans are financially illiterate and believe they are saving money by dumping their perfectly working vehicle with lots of life left for a new car that cuts down on fuel. Unless you're driving a GMC hummer that gets dick for mileage, you're not saving money. You're paying taxes on a new vehicle, taking out a new loan for more money or paying cash for a new one in addition to using resources for a new vehicle that actually increases carbon print versus using your current. Again, there are some exception.

Unless your vehicle is end of life, there is really very small environmental impact, if any and very slim to costing more impact.

Now, getting off my high horse. **** everyone and buy what you want. If you want a tesla, buy it. If you dont, then dont. Different strokes for different folks.


I just want people to stop justifying their Tesla purchase for some moral "i'm better than you xyz" bull****. Buy it because you like it. Enjoy the **** out of it. Those that dont like it, dont buy it. But also shut the **** up about hating it because of your holy reason of xyz.



*godfather may have already had 1 high point beer during his 9am mid year virtual meeting and is slightly intoxicated*

[afisher9]

Originally Posted by godfather2112

Tesla owners are the new / current gen BMW type owners. Sure, there is a decent portion who are normal people. There is also a large / significant portion who are complete pricks. Speaking from person experience, i'd say 7/10 tesla owners in my area refuse to use turn signal, will abruptly accelerate next to me and cut me off, have some form of douche nozzle custom license plate, and are cruising the freeway with their hands off the wheel and nose deep in their phone.

I don't really know if this part of it is just a tesla thing or just the new regular way of life. I swear I see more and more people texting and driving/not using their turn signals everyday. Maybe the tesla drivers that are all about their tech contribute to some of the texting and driving but I think it's all just more and more common. Not just tesla drivers.

[Sid03SVT]

Originally Posted by Masterauto

wouldn't you rather the RAV4 Hybrid over the model Y ? Could cost nearly half and It will go 250k mi fairly trouble free, problems and service taken care of locally and 1/3 less cost roughly option dependent and better resale ? https://youtu.be/nzKU8ZQ9JAs

Although this wasn't addressed specifically to me, in the case of a "people and stuff" mover type vehicle, I'd take either an ICE or an EV. I don't want a hybrid.

The appeal of of an ICE is cheap buy in, the appeal of an EV is low maintenance.

I couldn't justify the added up front cost of a similarly equipped hybrid over an ICE solely on fuel savings, as the additional up front cost is not likely to be recouped over the ownership period of the vehicle based on the miles it will do each year. The hybrid has the same maintenance intervals as an ICE, with an additional system to consider and check regularly. Not sure if it's the case with the Rav4, but typically the hybrid system also compromises cargo and/or passenger volume. Rav4 specific (eg. not all ICE vs. hybrid vs. EV) - the ICE Rav4 has a planetary transmission, the hybrid has a CVT, and the CVT is a weak point with regards to reliability & durability.

In the case of an EV, it has a reduced maintenance requirement, while increasing the cargo and passenger volume to justify the cost of going EV.

Not a straight ICE to Hybrid to EV comparison though, as Toyota hasn't ventured into that arena, but when they do, if there is an ICE, hybrid & EV version of the Rav4, I'd still take the EV or ICE, and not the hybrid.

Toyota Rav4 vs a Model Y isn't a great comparison though, no matter what trim Rav4 you pick because they have different design intents - if the Rav4 V6 were still available it would be a slightly better comparison, but the Rav4 is as slow as a turtle with a front biased AWD system, where even the slowest Model Y has a sub 5-second 0-60 with a more performance oriented AWD system, even though it still has the CUV unnecessary ground clearance. Neither is an offroader, but the Y should be significantly better on road.

to illustrate my point, I'll restate your question with different models, it's similar to "why would you buy a model 3 when you can buy a Corolla hybrid?" and you could replace "Rav4" above with "Corolla" in my statements and they would hold true, as well as "model Y" with "Model 3"; they have different design intents.

[juanmedina]

Originally Posted by YungBoba

I don't hate Tesla, moreso just some of the obnoxious owners but Pre makes a good point, not all of them are stuck-up pricks. In fact, most of them aren't, it just so happens that the obnoxious ones are also the most vocal and in-your-face about it.

My dad has a 75D and every time I drive it, I can't help but get a childish grin from ear to ear when I mash on the accelerator. That said, it's still annoying when Telsa bros say stuff like "why would you ever drive a regular gas car ever again" as they brag about their Model 3. Again, these are people who aren't car guys and who don't understand what car guys are into.

The Taycan is amazing and personally I am very interested to see what other automakers bring to the table as far as EV goes. Philosophically, I would rather buy from company who is an automaker first and foremost. We've seen from Tesla time and time again that they've run into QC issues, in large part because of their inexperience in building cars, despite their batteries and tech being pretty damn good.

I will never own a gas car again and I had a 700whp WRX, EVO 8 400whp and a Lexus IS-F and took them to the road course and the dragstrip. Gas cars doesn't seem appealing to me anymore, my Model 3 Performance seems like the complete package. My next car will probably be a Model S Plaid.

[shikataganai]

Sid:

Toyota’s “CVT” on the hybrids is very reliable. No comparison to chain or belt ones on Nissans or the like.

Also note the existence of the relatively quick RAV4 Prime, which is of similar price to the gas or hybrid RAV4 after the tax credit.

[arghx7]

of course Tesla are the new douchey BMW owners. Who do you think is buying Tesla's? former BMW owners.

[YungBoba]

Originally Posted by arghx7

of course Tesla are the new douchey BMW owners. Who do you think is buying Tesla's? former BMW owners after they turn in their lease.

FTFY

[Sid03SVT]

Originally Posted by shikataganai

Sid:

Toyota’s “CVT” on the hybrids is very reliable. No comparison to chain or belt ones on Nissans or the like.

Also note the existence of the relatively quick RAV4 Prime, which is of similar price to the gas or hybrid RAV4 after the tax credit.

From my reading the Rav4 hybrid does not have the physical first gear style CVT used in other hybrid cars.

The Rav4 Prime is "relatively quick" when compared to the ICE rav4, slow compared to EV CUV's, but also "relatively expensive" when compared to the ICE rav4 - starting at 42k for an XSE and not all that far off of the mark of an EV CUV.

When I price vehicles I generally ignore tax credits as by the time I'd be comfortable buying one (2-3 model years in) they no longer apply. Also if they are considered, a first year Mach E will then become a viable option.

[legacy_etu]

Originally Posted by godfather2112

Tesla owners are the new / current gen BMW type owners. Sure, there is a decent portion who are normal people. There is also a large / significant portion who are complete pricks. Speaking from person experience, i'd say 7/10 tesla owners in my area refuse to use turn signal, will abruptly accelerate next to me and cut me off, have some form of douche nozzle custom license plate, and are cruising the freeway with their hands off the wheel and nose deep in their phone.

The above combination of factors and better than other mentality is why people seem to hate Tesla (and also Elon Musk is the Pharma Bro of EV) which is a damn shame. I very much look forward to when I buy my first EV vehicle. I want to cut my carbon foot print, reduce any middle east revenue from oil and also cut down on any expenses if possible. That said, there isnt a vehicle that meets my needs for daily driving / work and it makes 0 financial sense to just dump a perfectly working vehicle for an EV.

I'd venture to say most Americans are financially illiterate and believe they are saving money by dumping their perfectly working vehicle with lots of life left for a new car that cuts down on fuel. Unless you're driving a GMC hummer that gets dick for mileage, you're not saving money. You're paying taxes on a new vehicle, taking out a new loan for more money or paying cash for a new one in addition to using resources for a new vehicle that actually increases carbon print versus using your current. Again, there are some exception.

Unless your vehicle is end of life, there is really very small environmental impact, if any and very slim to costing more impact.

Now, getting off my high horse. **** everyone and buy what you want. If you want a tesla, buy it. If you dont, then dont. Different strokes for different folks.


I just want people to stop justifying their Tesla purchase for some moral "i'm better than you xyz" bull****. Buy it because you like it. Enjoy the **** out of it. Those that dont like it, dont buy it. But also shut the **** up about hating it because of your holy reason of xyz.



*godfather may have already had 1 high point beer during his 9am mid year virtual meeting and is slightly intoxicated*

Hmm, sounds like somebody got a crappy mid year review.

[Keshav]

4 consecutive quarters of profitability

[Pre]

Originally Posted by godfather2112

reduce any middle east revenue from oil and also cut down on any expenses if possible.

I do wish more people would understand your first point, as well as this second one. I know many people who have whined, made fun, etc, my EV who even when you tell them about point #1 (and most of these dudes drive trucks that are not fuel efficient) you immediately get "We make most of our oil now" and I'm like yeah but you've still got a large portion coming from the middle east buddy. And you are still lining their pockets like a mofo.


Point two was the next major consideration for me because I make my own power. For 6 years my gasoline buying and use is for fun, and leisure, not for necessity. Prime riding season I might crest $100 a month in gas if I'm riding every single weekend, otherwise less. Even with a PWC and truck above $100 a month is not the norm, but maybe the prime summer months. 6 years ago I was spending a few hundred a month.

Originally Posted by juanmedina

I will never own a gas car again and I had a 700whp WRX, EVO 8 400whp and a Lexus IS-F and took them to the road course and the dragstrip. Gas cars doesn't seem appealing to me anymore, my Model 3 Performance seems like the complete package. My next car will probably be a Model S Plaid.

not all of us EV owners are the same as you however. I'm quite happy to be doing a very small insignificant + towards the environment powering my home and DD via the sun. Do you like space? (Bellamafia) I like that space powers the home, DD, and like that my movie channels come from space also. But nothing will ever replace manually changing gears, braking, then twisting a throttle to the stop out of a corner, wfo, via gas. Same for a performance car. I've ridden e-motorcycles, and driven a number of Model S performance variants. The midrange is mind blowing in the P85D/P90D, but they were pigs in the corners. And the e-motorcycles are an absolute joke, and I've ridden every Zero bike made so far. No way in hell.

Different to you, I can say I will always, for the rest of my life want my DD to be an EV without any hesitation. As long as it's affordable. Fit pricing to Accord, somewhere in there. But some 50k and above fancy EV is not my game at all. I will own my gassers for life until big gubmint takes them from me and they'll have to shoot me first. The EV has changed me in some ways as I don't want to sell/trade/buy vehicles any longer. But I do want another gas, 6mt performance car, to make my last one I buy. Will only get 3-6k on it per yer so it will last me until retirement or longer. But I still want one and will buy one. I will drive my EV until it won't run any longer, I'll run it into the ground. Or I'll replace with a like for like if I end up moving and needing more range to make it back home.

[Keshav]

Giga Texa$ confirmed

[legacy_etu]

Originally Posted by Pre

I do wish more people would understand your first point, as well as this second one. I know many people who have whined, made fun, etc, my EV who even when you tell them about point #1 (and most of these dudes drive trucks that are not fuel efficient) you immediately get "We make most of our oil now" and I'm like yeah but you've still got a large portion coming from the middle east buddy. And you are still lining their pockets like a mofo.


Point two was the next major consideration for me because I make my own power. For 6 years my gasoline buying and use is for fun, and leisure, not for necessity. Prime riding season I might crest $100 a month in gas if I'm riding every single weekend, otherwise less. Even with a PWC and truck above $100 a month is not the norm, but maybe the prime summer months. 6 years ago I was spending a few hundred a month.






not all of us EV owners are the same as you however. I'm quite happy to be doing a very small insignificant + towards the environment powering my home and DD via the sun. Do you like space? (Bellamafia) I like that space powers the home, DD, and like that my movie channels come from space also. But nothing will ever replace manually changing gears, braking, then twisting a throttle to the stop out of a corner, wfo, via gas. Same for a performance car. I've ridden e-motorcycles, and driven a number of Model S performance variants. The midrange is mind blowing in the P85D/P90D, but they were pigs in the corners. And the e-motorcycles are an absolute joke, and I've ridden every Zero bike made so far. No way in hell.

Different to you, I can say I will always, for the rest of my life want my DD to be an EV without any hesitation. As long as it's affordable. Fit pricing to Accord, somewhere in there. But some 50k and above fancy EV is not my game at all. I will own my gassers for life until big gubmint takes them from me and they'll have to shoot me first. The EV has changed me in some ways as I don't want to sell/trade/buy vehicles any longer. But I do want another gas, 6mt performance car, to make my last one I buy. Will only get 3-6k on it per yer so it will last me until retirement or longer. But I still want one and will buy one. I will drive my EV until it won't run any longer, I'll run it into the ground. Or I'll replace with a like for like if I end up moving and needing more range to make it back home.

Just looked up these Leaf’s on Autotrader. Man, they are marking these down big time.

[juanmedina]

Originally Posted by Pre

I do wish more people would understand your first point, as well as this second one. I know many people who have whined, made fun, etc, my EV who even when you tell them about point #1 (and most of these dudes drive trucks that are not fuel efficient) you immediately get "We make most of our oil now" and I'm like yeah but you've still got a large portion coming from the middle east buddy. And you are still lining their pockets like a mofo.


Point two was the next major consideration for me because I make my own power. For 6 years my gasoline buying and use is for fun, and leisure, not for necessity. Prime riding season I might crest $100 a month in gas if I'm riding every single weekend, otherwise less. Even with a PWC and truck above $100 a month is not the norm, but maybe the prime summer months. 6 years ago I was spending a few hundred a month.






not all of us EV owners are the same as you however. I'm quite happy to be doing a very small insignificant + towards the environment powering my home and DD via the sun. Do you like space? (Bellamafia) I like that space powers the home, DD, and like that my movie channels come from space also. But nothing will ever replace manually changing gears, braking, then twisting a throttle to the stop out of a corner, wfo, via gas. Same for a performance car. I've ridden e-motorcycles, and driven a number of Model S performance variants. The midrange is mind blowing in the P85D/P90D, but they were pigs in the corners. And the e-motorcycles are an absolute joke, and I've ridden every Zero bike made so far. No way in hell.

Different to you, I can say I will always, for the rest of my life want my DD to be an EV without any hesitation. As long as it's affordable. Fit pricing to Accord, somewhere in there. But some 50k and above fancy EV is not my game at all. I will own my gassers for life until big gubmint takes them from me and they'll have to shoot me first. The EV has changed me in some ways as I don't want to sell/trade/buy vehicles any longer. But I do want another gas, 6mt performance car, to make my last one I buy. Will only get 3-6k on it per yer so it will last me until retirement or longer. But I still want one and will buy one. I will drive my EV until it won't run any longer, I'll run it into the ground. Or I'll replace with a like for like if I end up moving and needing more range to make it back home.

I get it everyone has different preferences. I myself like efficiency that's why I got the IS-F because of the transmission because I knew I would never be able to shift that fast. I thought about getting a sequential transmission but I would go crazy with the noise. I work for an EV manufacturer and I get to see how efficient the drivetrain and there is no contest. I am now older and have kids therefore I have other priorities. I didn't get my Tesla for environmental reason, I got it because it was one of the quickest cars for the money, its consistent under any conditions of the line, and is the safest car for my kids. Autopilot was never part of the equation but I now realize that it is a life changer. It really makes your life better, you feel less stress and you don't feel as tired after a long day of work. I try to use it safely but you started getting more compliant as time goes.

As far as cost yeah it is expensive and my car is the most expensive car I have ever owned but I am now in a financial position that it doesn't matter. I always been super frugal but I built my nest egg first and secured my early retirement, now I just need to have the balls to pull the trigger lol. I have solar panels also and got them more as an investment and the environmental part is a bonus.

Right now battery technology is not where it needs to be but it's advancing at an amazing pace. Yes the current Model S is pig and doesn't corner well but it was never designed or intended to be a performance track car...it has tiny brakes for the weight and it doesn't have enough cooling capacity for the track. The Model 3 and the Model Y on the other hand are fun cars to drive that you can take track and there is an abundance of after market suspension components that can make them even better.

[Pre]

Originally Posted by Keshav

Giga Texa$ confirmed

Marketing. “Cybertruck made in Texas!”

[Blitzkrieg]

Originally Posted by Pre

Marketing. “Cybertruck made in Texas!”

Why not... We already have Space X. (Can't wait for the day they actually launch a rocket from Texas...)

BlitZ

[Calamity Jesus]

Originally Posted by Sid03SVT

The hybrid has the same maintenance intervals as an ICE, with an additional system to consider and check regularly.

While I totally agree with your sentiment that the added cost of a hybrid will not always be recovered with a low mileage car, you have several bad takes here.

Most hybrids are simpler than their traditional ICE counterparts. Many of them have transmissions with fewer moving parts than traditional automatics and require less overall maintenance. They almost always eschew the classic starter and starter solenoid setup for one of the hybrid's high voltage motors as well, which are far more robust.

Originally Posted by Sid03SVT

Rav4 specific (eg. not all ICE vs. hybrid vs. EV) - the ICE Rav4 has a planetary transmission, the hybrid has a CVT, and the CVT is a weak point with regards to reliability & durability.

The CVTs in any Toyota Hybrid are planetary (epicyclic) E-CVTs. They're extremely reliable and durable.


Honda's current batch of hybrids don't even have transmissions. They're series hybrids, like locomotives.

Originally Posted by Sid03SVT

From my reading the Rav4 hybrid does not have the physical first gear style CVT used in other hybrid cars.

You seem to be confusing Toyota's chain CVT with a 1st gear that's used on the Corolla (ICE) for one of their hybrid transmissions.

YouTube

YouTube

[godfather2112]

Originally Posted by juanmedina

I will never own a gas car again and I had a 700whp WRX, EVO 8 400whp and a Lexus IS-F and took them to the road course and the dragstrip. Gas cars doesn't seem appealing to me anymore, my Model 3 Performance seems like the complete package. My next car will probably be a Model S Plaid.

Go drive a 1000lbs sierra-car powered by a hayabusa motor. That might change your mind

Originally Posted by legacy_etu

Hmm, sounds like somebody got a crappy mid year review.

We don't do mid year reviews. We're not a micromanage corporation. They did tell us we are getting a commission cut next year which was already expected. Didn't tell us how much of a cut though

[juanmedina]

Originally Posted by godfather2112

Go drive a 1000lbs sierra-car powered by a hayabusa motor. That might change your mind



We don't do mid year reviews. We're not a micromanage corporation. They did tell us we are getting a commission cut next year which was already expected. Didn't tell us how much of a cut though

Dude I would love to drive so many cool ICE cars but to own one its a different story.

[godfather2112]

Originally Posted by juanmedina

Dude I would love to drive so many cool ICE cars but to own one its a different story.

Oh, you’d want to own a Sierra-car. It’s pure nutters and stupid fun.
https://www.sierra-cars.com/

[Snow Drift]

Originally Posted by Masterauto

wouldn't you rather the RAV4 Hybrid over the model Y ? Could cost nearly half and It will go 250k mi fairly trouble free, problems and service taken care of locally and 1/3 less cost roughly option dependent and better resale ? https://youtu.be/nzKU8ZQ9JAs

FWD-biased with a poor excuse for rear torque that ends when the battery runs out. So no, I'll take Dual Motor AWD in the Model Y.

Originally Posted by edkwon

That's because it's mostly nerds (like us) who show up at car owners meets.

Enthusiasts. They are the owners that I care about... I do miss get waves from WRXs. I actually still do it, but they can't see.

[Sid03SVT]

Originally Posted by Calamity Jesus

While I totally agree with your sentiment that the added cost of a hybrid will not always be recovered with a low mileage car, you have several bad takes here.

Most hybrids are simpler than their traditional ICE counterparts. Many of them have transmissions with fewer moving parts than traditional automatics and require less overall maintenance. They almost always eschew the classic starter and starter solenoid setup for one of the hybrid's high voltage motors as well, which are far more robust.

The CVTs in any Toyota Hybrid are planetary (epicyclic) E-CVTs. They're extremely reliable and durable.

You seem to be confusing Toyota's chain CVT with a 1st gear that's used on the Corolla (ICE) for one of their hybrid transmissions.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vHc-_E8xWnM

Thanks for the video, I'm not into CVTs nor CUVs, so that was informative enough to make me more comfortable suggesting the vehicle to people that are; doesn't remedy the other issues with the vehicle from my perspective though in the Rav4 ICE vs hybrid vs Prime vs EV debate though.

Originally Posted by Snow Drift

Enthusiasts. They are the owners that I care about... I do miss get waves from WRXs. I actually still do it, but they can't see.

I have started waving to other IS owners, they typically don't wave back, but I get perplexed looks, so there is that.

[godfather2112]

Originally Posted by Sid03SVT

Thanks for the video, I'm not into CVTs nor CUVs, so that was informative enough to make me more comfortable suggesting the vehicle to people that are; doesn't remedy the other issues with the vehicle from my perspective though in the Rav4 ICE vs hybrid vs Prime vs EV debate though.



I have started waving to other IS owners, they typically don't wave back, but I get perplexed looks, so there is that.

Just wave like a frantic nut job pretending to know them.