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11-29-2012, 06:04 PM | #51 | |
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Contrary to the (single) person agreeing with you, I am personal friends with several driving instructors (and professional drivers) who would strongly disagree with shifting mid-corner except for a VERY VERY few select circumstances.
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11-29-2012, 06:06 PM | #52 |
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And there's the truth of it. Shifting in a corner (when near the traction limit) is something generally to be avoided. But it's not the hard-line, never do that you had originally said. The important thing is to understand why it shouldn't be done (most of the time) and how it effects the car, so you can make informed decisions about when to use such a tool.
Last edited by equiraptor; 11-29-2012 at 06:17 PM. Reason: Just adding more details. :-) |
11-29-2012, 06:24 PM | #53 |
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Didn't take long for this to become manual vs. auto.
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11-29-2012, 07:29 PM | #54 | |
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Read my post again, but knowing that a G27 is this... Logitech G27 Racing Wheel, Pedals & Shifter People were crapping all over paddleshifters, saying they need that 'feeling' of shifting. We were talking about driving sensation, not speed/efficiency/safety/technic/timing/etc. Then I said, hey FWIW, I have BOTH on my gaming setup, and I don't mind using the paddleshifters vs the stick. I was surprised by this, but I like not having to take my hand off the wheel while the track is still all twisty and the wheel is fighting me with gobs of force-feedback. when you are RIPPING through a track like the 'Ring, there are TONS of instances where you need to shift AND have weight on the wheel, because the track is NOT straight. Like exiting a tight slow section, but the exit is a long sweeper. I know it doesn't all translate to the real world, but I think all of you would be surprised with the experience. Last edited by blehhh; 11-29-2012 at 07:37 PM. |
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11-29-2012, 11:26 PM | #55 | |
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11-29-2012, 11:55 PM | #56 |
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11-30-2012, 12:08 AM | #57 |
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11-30-2012, 02:54 AM | #58 | |
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*ambush *vanish Wait for rez, lather rinse repeat. *Get bored and go kill all the NPCs in elwyn as the lowbies try to turn in quests /y O Y O (you would see L O L ) Actually I shut my account down when kiddy kung-fu panda expansion came out. Between the disney theme and ruining PVP because of crybabies that shouldn't roll a toon on a PVP server (seriously, if you don't like open world PVP, stay on a carebear server)(talking to the crybabies, not you) |
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11-30-2012, 07:05 AM | #59 | |
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What i was talking about was on an actual car. The "weight" or feel could be adjusted but its a mechnical change. Changing the steering rack ratio increases its speed, and suspension changes can affect its "responsiveness". The feedback from your wheel pedal setup is really just simulating a feeling, but it is lacking the million other things that make driving a real car better. Its like looking at a magazine of a woman or actually touching her. |
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11-30-2012, 07:24 AM | #60 |
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Having personal experience with both driving on the Nurburgring in real life and on forza as well as GT5 I can say having a manual is great. However, if you were to have a snazzy flappy paddle such as the GT-Rs or something similar it would make things crisper and smoother while losing less time.
As far as shift points and mid corner shifting he is right, sometimes it is unavoidable. However, at my current level that is not the weakness in my driving. I have yet to exceed the limits of my chassis balance or tire adhesion due to flubbing a shift here or there. I do reccommend solid use of both hands on the wheel as much as possible, I am sure no one would disagree with that, and when you do shift make it a very diliberate and positive motion and get that hand back on the wheel. I am attaching my most recent video in all of its horribleness. Sorry for the rattling sound from the GoPro, the track officials don't allow recording devices that you didn't rent from them so I had to skip the mount and wedge it into my headrest. |
11-30-2012, 07:42 AM | #61 |
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Wow you guys are retarded. Are you really comparing real life to a video game? Just think about it for a second.
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11-30-2012, 07:52 AM | #62 | |
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To be honest, I always run a few laps on forza the night before a trip to the 'Ring. Is it the same, hell no, but its damned close and will help you learn a lot of the track. 13 miles is a long bit of tarmac to remember. I prefer forza to GT5 as far as physics are concerned...GT5 just makes all cars understeer into oblivion whereas Forza it seems to behave more similar to real life. |
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11-30-2012, 08:16 AM | #63 |
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11-30-2012, 08:25 AM | #64 |
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That's not a horrible idea. But I was referring more to the other guy who was talking about the shifting and how it feels to actually drive one.
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11-30-2012, 08:52 AM | #65 | |||
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And yes, the game can't convey the millions of other sensations all occuring at once, but in regards to shifting with paddleshifters, how can anyone argue that this is vaaastly different in a real car? And FYI, the game does convey an upset in traction if you downshift too hard / fast / etc like in a real car. Accidentally downshift when you're supposed to upshift and you can lock up the tires from the engine braking. My desk is also a little flimsy for the setup, so that also plays into why I might like not having to take my hand off the wheel. If everything was truly locked into place, I might enjoy the stick shifter a tad bit more than I do now. It is quite fun if you're not driving competitively. Quote:
Point of my entire rant? Paddleshifters and stick shift both present/highlight different rewarding sensations in driving, and which one I use/find more enjoyable depends on the track, the car, my mood, my desired performance/competitiveness, etc. Try paddleshifters if you can. The added control and sensation of never having to take your hands off the wheel is worthwhile, especially on a track that has very few straights/transitions where absolutely no steering input is required. Last edited by blehhh; 11-30-2012 at 09:30 AM. |
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11-30-2012, 09:40 AM | #66 | |
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11-30-2012, 10:00 AM | #67 | |
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2012 WRX RalliTEK Front & Rear Solid Swaybars & Endlinks Kartboy Short Throw Shifter & Bushings Kartboy Pitch Stop Motor Mount Group N Engine Mounts Group N Transmission Mount Whiteline Steering Rack Bushings Whiteline Gearbox Bushings Whiteline Rear Differential Inserts Whiteline Rear Subframe Inserts TiC Driveshaft Carrier Bushings If you can't tell, I'm a little obsessed with driver feedback. I live in Maine. My car can see dirt, snow and pavement inside of a single day, and I've pushed it to the limit on all of them. |
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11-30-2012, 10:29 AM | #68 |
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this is a funny thread, might as well put my two cents in
I know at VIR there is a decreasing radius turn, I pull a consistent 1.3-1.5 g since its slightly banked. there is a circle track i frequent near by as well that is for giggles racing. we start from a stop and halfway through turn one and two i shift into 4th, this turn generates about 1.9g since its a higher bank. have you ever been in a hard left and tried to reach for the shifter? as soon as you let go of the steering wheel your hand flies towards the passenger side, and you gotta fish for the shifter. and its not like you can glance down to see it since your head is turned left. Im actually in the process of figuring out how i can convert to a 5eat with a hard ass valve body in it with upgraded pump, quick shifts and it has paddle shifter. shifts faster than any person can. .02 btw....a racing game is NOWHERE near real life and i own every forza and have a fanatec porsche wheel. |
11-30-2012, 10:29 AM | #69 | |
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I've been driving far longer then you have, have raced through out my life, and have played these same games. Stop being silly. It is your opinion but you are wrong. Live with it. Not sure what posting your mods on your car proves either. If you wanna go that route my car is way faster and modded way more then yours. That makes me cool I guess. |
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11-30-2012, 10:41 AM | #70 |
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11-30-2012, 10:44 AM | #71 | ||
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Certain aspects of a racing sim do overlap, but you're not even reading what I am saying... Quote:
You've had 13 years to mod yours. I've had 6 months. There is much more to come. |
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11-30-2012, 10:48 AM | #72 |
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does anyone have any popcorn? this is getting good
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11-30-2012, 11:23 AM | #73 |
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Ok n00bs, simmer down.
Here's the deal. A video game can only go so far. I am a die hard manual transmission-only driver. I've driven my own manual tranny cars since the early 70's and have thousands of track laps. Yah, video games can help in some ways, but nothing I know of gives the full sensation of being in a moving car. However..... A dual clutch sequential paddle shifter is simply faster than anyone ever will be shifting manually. Attend any professional race. The vast majority of racecars are paddle shifters. (I've noted this in ALMS and Grand Am over the last 2 years at Lime Rock, looking into the cars) I have only driven a couple paddle shift cars (S4, Evo) and indeed, it was pretty quickly evident why they would be faster than a manual. No depressing the clutch, then shifting, then releasing the clutch. No lift of the throttle. Simply mash the throttle to the floor and hit the up shift. Or let the car's computer see that you're too close to rev limit and shift for you. |
11-30-2012, 11:39 AM | #74 |
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I love my 4eat i drive manuals for my job but family situation with my mom having a tumor and stuff caused me to get a auto. so if subaru does get the auto one out for 2014, i'd be on board being a die-hard subie fan. but if not, its no big deal. both have their up's and down. like why argue? who cares? people like and buy what they want. only down side with an auto is all the ricers who cant drive stick would buy one.
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11-30-2012, 11:47 AM | #75 |
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I still think a lot of people don't understand how much does translate over into video games these days. Of course the lateral forces and the clutch engagement don't, but with the force-feedback, the picture-perfect tracks and an insane amount of physics whirling away in the background, it's more intense than people give credit.
I'm not talking mario kart, I'm talking trying to wrestle a fully manual 800hp rwd car on Leguna Seca, without ABS, TC, SC, etc and having to use the clutch pedal and the stick shifter. Anything other than near-perfection can and will result in wheelspin, stalling the car, spinning out, locking up the brakes, etc. You can even ruin an individual tire's traction for a minute by touching the dirt or grass. And then there's all of the tuning. Change your sway bar stiffness and the car behaves differently, etc. Last edited by blehhh; 11-30-2012 at 11:57 AM. |
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