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Old 12-11-2008, 12:43 PM   #1
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Default Acura aims to deliver big-league luxury

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LOS ANGELES--Honda's U.S. executives have pledged for years to make Acura a top-tier luxury brand, on par with Lexus, Mercedes, and BMW. Dealer Dave Conant is gambling $20 million that this time Honda will succeed.

That's how much Conant spent to upgrade his Acura dealership in suburban Los Angeles. The renovated store opened in May.

"We invested in this facility on the bet they really mean it," Conant told Automotive News.

Jeff Conrad, vice president of American Honda Motor's Acura division, concedes that dealers' expectations are high. He says Acura is working to improve its vehicles, marketing, and retail network. But achieving those goals will take time, he warns.

"Every product we launch becomes more of a Tier One product." Conrad says. "But you don't just snap your fingers and do it overnight. It is a long-term effort."

The redesigned 2009 Acura TL, a compact sedan that emerged from the brand's new design center in Torrance, Calif., is competitive with better-selling luxury models in styling and performance, Conrad says.

The TL has a 3.5-liter, V-6 engine and offers all-wheel drive as an option. It went on sale this fall with a base sticker price of $34,955, including shipping.

Acura dealers say they like the revamped TL. But T.Y. Lai, COO of the western region for DCH Auto Group, says sales of the redesigned model have been disappointing.

"We don't consider it luxury yet," says Lai, whose company owns four U.S. Acura dealerships. "I don't think the buyer considers it luxury."

Conrad says the marketing launch for the redesigned TL is Acura's most expensive campaign. He declined to disclose its budget.

RPA, American Honda's advertising agency, created an Acura division last year. The TL campaign is the first for the new unit. Its tag line: "The most powerful Acura ever built."

Wanted: Broader lineup

Acura needs a wider selection of products, Lai says. The brand offers models in five market segments. Lai complains the brand is "not even considering a hybrid."
Conrad says Acura will launch a "new or reskinned" vehicle every year for the "foreseeable future." He declined to discuss which segments Acura plans to enter.

Acura must offer vehicles in higher-priced segments if it wants to be considered a Tier 1 luxury brand, says Tom Libby, senior director of industry analysis at J.D. Power and Associates.

Such vehicles would "contribute to the reputation for luxury," Libby says. Acura especially needs to compete in the segment that includes the Mercedes E class, BMW 5 series, Audi A6, and Infiniti M series, he says.
A replacement for Acura's most expensive model, the $46,000 Acura RL, is due in 2010. Dealers say Acura must offer buyers a V-8 engine as an option if the car is to be considered Tier 1.

"To elevate the brand, they gotta have it," says Mark McKellop, general manager of Acura of Mission Viejo in suburban Los Angeles.

In April, Acura told U.S. dealers that the brand plans to bring out a V-8 within 18 months. In October, Honda Motor CEO Takeo Fukui said that Acura would offer a V-8, but he did not suggest a timetable.

Acura has formed a 25-person team of executives to define how it will achieve Tier 1 luxury status. John Mendel, executive vice president of automobile operations at American Honda, heads the team.

Conrad says the brand is forming Acura University, which will offer personal and online training for dealership sales, service, and finance employees.

Acura also is showing dealers a computer simulation of what it wants its dealerships to look like, Conrad says. Among the features the brand seeks: larger and fancier facilities for sales, service, vehicle delivery, and customer reception. A few Acura dealerships, such as Conant's upgraded store, already reflect that vision.

Conrad declined to discuss how much Acura expects its dealers to spend to improve their stores. He concedes dealers are likely to resist spending demands in a down market. But he says: "We are going to ask them to invest just as we are investing."

Too far too fast?
Some dealers warn Acura against trying to step up in class too quickly.

"They immediately say they want to be like BMW, like Mercedes, like Lexus," says John Hawkins, president of Great Metro Autogroup, a suburban Los Angeles dealership group that includes an Acura store. Instead, Hawkins says, Acura should aim first to "compare themselves with Infiniti and Audi."

Hawkins also calls Acura's management too "process-driven," lacking "bold, imaginative" leadership.
"There's not a Bob Lutz over there," he says. "There's not a Jim Press."

DCH's Lai offers a more measured appraisal of Acura executives.

"This will not be a smooth road," he says. "But at least they are headed in the right direction."
(Source: Automotive News)
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Old 12-11-2008, 02:16 PM   #2
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I say keep the RL as their "top dog contender" and be content with being a leader in the entry level industry.

Add more AWD/RWD cars into the class and be happy along side of Infiniti.
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Old 12-11-2008, 02:24 PM   #3
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Acura must offer vehicles in higher-priced segments if it wants to be considered a Tier 1 luxury brand, says Tom Libby, senior director of industry analysis at J.D. Power and Associates.
Agree. I don't even see Acura as comparable to Infiniti and Audi, more like Saab or Volvo. Look at Mercedes; their reputation is based on cars like the S550 even though that's not what sells the most. Lexus only got respect as a luxury brand when they came out with the LS, which was designed to compete with the S-class.
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Old 12-11-2008, 02:28 PM   #4
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they always say this... and when will the deliver
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Old 12-11-2008, 02:37 PM   #5
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Acura will always be a nice stop on the way from Honda to Infiniti. Nothing more.
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Old 12-11-2008, 05:36 PM   #6
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hmm, Infiniti took off when they stopped selling tarted up Nissans. Maybe Acura should do the same.

This guy shows his disillusion when he describes the TL as a "compact" sedan (its not) and the starting price of 35k with FWD is out of line. There's not enough to separate it from the Accord, until you hit the VERY pricey AWD.
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Old 12-11-2008, 06:05 PM   #7
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This guy shows his disillusion when he describes the TL as a "compact" sedan (its not) and the starting price of 35k with FWD is out of line. There's not enough to separate it from the Accord, until you hit the VERY pricey AWD.
I take it the $36K 211hp FWD Audi A4 really gets your goat then, eh?
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Old 12-11-2008, 09:00 PM   #8
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they goin after maybach again?
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Old 12-11-2008, 09:12 PM   #9
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they always say this... and when will the deliver
yeah i actually thought someone bumped an old thread.

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they goin after maybach again?
haha i guess they set their sights a lot lower this time. more realistic, but still not possible given the vehicles they are selling.

I honestly think Hyundai took a closer step toward Tier 1 luxury vehicles with the Genesis than Acura ever has with any of their cars. I saw a Genesis driving around from a distance and it actually gives off the image of a true luxury vehicle.

When i see an acura driving around... the only feeling i get is boredom.
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Old 12-11-2008, 10:24 PM   #10
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I take it the $36K 211hp FWD Audi A4 really gets your goat then, eh?
lol. sometimes the truth hurts. but you gotta admit the audi looks a lot better than the bottle opener the tl has become
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Old 12-11-2008, 11:02 PM   #11
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I take it the $36K 211hp FWD Audi A4 really gets your goat then, eh?

And where can I find such a car at www.audiusa.com?
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Old 12-11-2008, 11:41 PM   #12
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lol. sometimes the truth hurts. but you gotta admit the audi looks a lot better than the bottle opener the tl has become
thank you for finally providing me with a descriptive name for that front end.
idk about you guys, but id snag up a previous gen type s in a heartbeat.


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Old 12-12-2008, 07:45 AM   #13
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A good press release from a car manufacturer typically contains the words engine, mph, mpg, aluminum and injection. A bad press release typically contains the words campaign, strategy, refocus, tier and identity.

Seriously, does Acura employ anyone that's not a marketing person except for the janitor? Tag lines, corporate identity, campaigns...blah blah blah. Mercedes and BMW didn't get to where they are by holding PowerPoint presentations.
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Old 12-12-2008, 01:27 PM   #14
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Ugh. I swear, every time I click on an Acura topic about being a better competitor in the luxury segment, I end up doing a facepalm. This one's no different. It's more about a dealership surrounding the current crop of Acura vehicles in prettier clothing (stupid), or talking about wanting to be better competitors with Tier 1s, but offering up no real good plans on how they want to get there. Sharp marketing can help (I love Target's advertising, for example, which blends style with value), but at this point, is anyone listening?

The angular cuts and overdone styling cues on many of the current Acuras are just complete turn-offs to me. There's nothing that exudes luxury. I constantly get the RDX and the latest MDX confused, and the dated, bubbly RL has never said "flagship" to me. The new TL and TSX have been polarizing to fans and potential buyers, and compete more with their Honda siblings than with other brands.

Infiniti's entry-level cars already have more power than Acura's mid-level TL. I think the TSX waters down the brand, and everyone knows it's just a rebadged Accord (hell, I wish it *were* an Accord instead of the bloated tanks we have now). People felt the same way with the Infiniti G20 back in the day, where it was seen (rightfully so) as an overpriced Sentra. I say dump the TSX, and make the TL line a better car than the G. Offer the coupe and sedan variants to reel back in those who left after the Integra went away. RL also needs to be as good, if not better than the M in every way. *Then* you're in a better position to compete with the likes of Lexus. Yeah, they're right... it won't happen overnight, but that argument only holds so much water when you see Hyundai already poised to make that jump.

As an aside, I've never felt so much pressure to buy as I did when I was at Keyes Acura in Van Nuys, CA. It's nearly made me swear off the brand completely.

-Mike
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Old 12-12-2008, 02:01 PM   #15
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As long as they keep doing FWD TL's, they arent going anywhere...


Dont dump the TSX.
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Old 12-14-2008, 09:10 AM   #16
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idk about you guys, but id snag up a previous gen type s in a heartbeat.
that makes one of us
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Old 12-14-2008, 09:26 AM   #17
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As long as they keep doing FWD TL's, they arent going anywhere...


Dont dump the TSX.
The new 2009 TL has the option of SH-AWD.
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Old 12-14-2008, 09:36 AM   #18
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hmm, Infiniti took off when they stopped selling tarted up Nissans...
Oh? is that why they still sell a barely distinguisable QX? Oops, I mean, Armada with fake wood...

Tho i do agree, the Infiniti Z has always looked better than the Nissan Z. And maybe when it finally gets AWD as an option, i might consider one.

However, i would rather have an Acura anyday, over an Infiniti, Audi, Mercedes, etc. Honda built reliability trumps any crap from Euro brands. And the American public knows it. Why do you think the NSX ever even sold when its was so underpowered compared to other $80k exotics. Because It was an exotic car that you didn't have to take to the dealer every 10k miles for a $5000 timing belt change or valve adjustment. You bought it, drove it, and just enjoyed it. Outside of your garage...

Dropping the Integra/Accord copies (former RSX/current TSX)? With a lot of luxury brands, those cheap low-end cars are their best sellers. I see ten-fold the number of 3-series, A4's, and C230's on the road than i ever see of their big-sticker brethern.

Acura just needs to make sure their high-end will hold up against some the of the high-end of these other luxry companies. It's time for an AWD, 400hp+ V8-powered, Luxury sports sedan. Get on it Acura. Even Toyota already builds Lexus IS-F's and 460LSh (and god are they posh... )

Acura has been doing a darn good job in all honesty. How many A4's or 325's do i see every day? Not as many as i do Integras... And I see far more RL's than I do 750iL's and A8's.

Course, i don't live in anywhere near any ultra-richy-snobby-stupid-a$$-loser-enclaves where if your hummer doesn't have 29's and real baby-seal-skin inside, you're just a wanna-be. And i prefer to keep it that way.
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Old 12-14-2008, 01:02 PM   #19
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A lot of people do forget that Acura was the first of the US-market Japanese brands-gone-luxury. Now that might not give them enough cred to stay competitive on its own, but it does combine nicely with Honda's perennial mission statement. They're usually understated and cautious, and certainly don't have Toyota's money. However they do produce some truly wonderful cars, when they put their efforts into it.

Anything they do is going to take longer than Toyota/Lexus, just because of budget. I do think they can compete if they really want to, but I'm sure the internet will be rife with "Honduh" b.s. in the meantime.
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Old 12-14-2008, 04:19 PM   #20
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^ agree almost with post #18 - but what they need is a sports coupe, not sedan that gets a lot of attention. That can at least serve as the attention-getter.
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Old 12-14-2008, 04:37 PM   #21
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Lexus only got respect as a luxury brand when they came out with the LS, which was designed to compete with the S-class.
Huh? Lexus did not exist before they came out with the LS -- that was their first car, the 1989 LS400.
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Old 12-14-2008, 05:22 PM   #22
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Acura has been doing a darn good job in all honesty. How many A4's or 325's do i see every day? Not as many as i do Integras... And I see far more RL's than I do 750iL's and A8's.
You're comparing cars from different classes. The RL doesn't compete with the 7-series and the Integra is not a 3-series competitor.
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Old 12-14-2008, 05:32 PM   #23
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Acura needs to move away from the el cheapo FWD format in order to be taken seriously as a luxury brand. Look at BMW, Mercedes, Audi, Porsche, Lexus, and Infinity. All RWD.
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Old 12-14-2008, 11:21 PM   #24
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You're comparing cars from different classes. The RL doesn't compete with the 7-series and the Integra is not a 3-series competitor.
It's not? Integra = Acura's cheapest car. 3-series, for a string of many many years (up until the arrival of the 1 series) = BMW's cheapest model of car.

However, you're right. The Integra will not stand up to a the likes of a 318 or 325...

It will demolish it. In fuel economy. In performance. In longevity. In quality of build. In satisfied owners. In resale values. Need i go on?

Sorry. My apology.
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Old 12-14-2008, 11:21 PM   #25
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I take it the $36K 211hp FWD Audi A4 really gets your goat then, eh?
The A4 starts at 32.7k WITH awd. different size and different prospective buyer imho.
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