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Old 06-13-2019, 01:08 PM   #1
rymaggi
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Default Track Days and Dealing with High Temps

Hi All,

I did my first instructor lead track event yesterday at Sonoma Raceway. I was paired with a GT3 and a Alfa Romeo that was insane.

We pushed the cars as hard as we could, WOT almost the entire time it felt like. Person gloating moment: we were his fastest group since January. woot woot.

Anyways, I'm running flex, so e85 with supporting mods. Temps were good during the late morning, and around noon-1pm. However once we did our two last sessions around 3. I was seeing 215 and then 225 coolant temps, this may also be because i had to fill up on 91 as i didn't bring any jugs of e85 with me.

Questions:

Whats the best way for me to keep these coolant temps down? We're going to be doing another event in July, so most likely it will be another 100+ degree day.

I've heard the following would be good, possibly....

-Radiator (apparently our 2015's are even slimmer)
-Colder thermostat (Not typically good for DD? This is my daily driver)
-Ducting (Not sure on this one would love some suggestions that don't require hacking up the bumper)
-Oil cooler
-Bring e85 to the track

Looking for any and all suggestions from people who HAVE been to the track and dealt with similar issues.


Edit: I also have a K&N CAI. I do not have the stock Ram Duct installed, would that help?
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Last edited by rymaggi; 06-13-2019 at 01:23 PM.
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Old 06-13-2019, 01:42 PM   #2
raisingAnarchy
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So this guy had done a lot of work on the 2015+ chassis STI to get it to cool off in stock form, but couldn't get it there. I need to review it, but maybe you can start here with what works and what doesn't.

https://www.iwsti.com/forums/2015-st...ing-track.html

My research so far has suggested that getting a solid undertray (the factory one has that little cutout by the drain plug that needs to go), modifying the front bumper to open it up, a radiator shroud, oil cooling + KB oil pan, and heat extractors on the hood seem to be a necessity.

The best solution of course would be full V-mount but that's not street friendly at all. FMIC only gets you partially there anyway I believe.
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Old 06-13-2019, 01:43 PM   #3
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Out of all the options below the oil cooler is going to be your best bet. Odds are your oil temps are getting dangerously high if your coolant temps were at 215-220. I've read 250-260 is really about as high as you want to go. Aftermarket oil cooler will also take some load off the stock radiator as that also some what cools the oil

For radiators i believe there is mishimoto and koyo. I've heard mixed things about radiators for these cars and the fans not fitting properly and needing to go to slimmer fans which are less efficient. I'm guessing you would see increase in temps while on the street with these lower profile fans but track temps should decrease.

A lower temp thermostat can be used on a daily if you live in a place that doesnt get too cold or snows. It will just take car longer to warm up. Some say this can increase wear on engine. This is a different platform, but my buddy has a ls1 camaro with a 160 degree thermostat and it gets to roughly 140 degrees about the same as stock thermostat but then slows down from there due to the 160 opening sooner.

Not sure about any aftermarket ducting to force more air through the radiator
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Old 06-13-2019, 02:14 PM   #4
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Don't bother with a cooler thermostat, all that does is change the temperature at which it opens. If you really think about it, how would that help when your temps are up over 200 since the thermostat is definitely open at that temp either way.

Anything you can do to force the air through the radiator instead of around it will help a good bit, I've been working on completely ducting in the radiator on my 1,000whp Corvette and it is slowly but surely bringing the temps down as I forced all of the air through the radiator and not around it. Google radiator ducting and there are plenty of examples to help you come up with a simple DIY solution. They don't need to perfectly seal to the bumper but they do need to seal to the face of the radiator so no cool air can sneak by.

Oil cooler will definitely help keep temps down. Heat reflecting tape on the oil pan will help a bit as well.

Hood vents also work great. I've run rivet-on hood vents on my corvette for years and they extract a ton of heat. The trick is getting them in the right position to function most efficiently.
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Old 06-13-2019, 03:22 PM   #5
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Thank you everyone. Just got a $250 visa gift card. Where can i spend this to get the most "Cooling" help. Radiator? Oil Cooler seems like there's a ton of issues that can potentially come along with it.

Was also looking into Hood vents? would that help with temps as well?
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Old 06-13-2019, 07:15 PM   #6
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Yes hood vents do help but placing them in the correct locations is important. Check out this older thread where a couple guys tried a few different methods.

https://forums.nasioc.com/forums/sho....php?t=2803633
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Old 06-13-2019, 08:30 PM   #7
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That_Boosted_Life hit your best first thing to do. Oil cooler. This should, of course be thermostatically controlled. Along with it, I'd run an oil temperature gauge so you can see where you are.

And I agree with Turpid Porpoise that a lower temp thermostat won't help as your thermostat should already be wide open.

Bring more E85. This stuff has no energy, so the volume of it to make power is much more than 91 and that cools the charge.

Run water with water wetter in the radiator. Water is more efficient at transferring heat than coolant is. Of course, if you are somewhere that it gets below freezing in the winter, remember to go back to anti freeze.

I don't really think you're going to need more than that. If you're worried about coolant and when installed oil temp....turn on the heater.
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Old 06-13-2019, 08:31 PM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rymaggi View Post
Thank you everyone. Just got a $250 visa gift card. Where can i spend this to get the most "Cooling" help. Radiator? Oil Cooler seems like there's a ton of issues that can potentially come along with it.

Was also looking into Hood vents? would that help with temps as well?
hood vents might help but it all depends on your intercooler location as well. if you have a front mount you can have all the venting you want, but if you have a top mount, its a whole different story. what i would do is look at the 24hr nurburgring subaru and see what they do, if they can run all day and night at full throttle, you should be good.

as for the raditator, yeah great idea, try to get the one with the most capacity. is this a straight race car or a street car that goes on the track? you can also look for stuff to cut out of the front of the car so more air moving in the front, you can also use water wetter and see if that helps

Last edited by subaru_gc8; 06-13-2019 at 08:38 PM.
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Old 06-13-2019, 10:14 PM   #9
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hood vents might help but it all depends on your intercooler location as well. if you have a front mount you can have all the venting you want, but if you have a top mount, its a whole different story. what i would do is look at the 24hr nurburgring subaru and see what they do, if they can run all day and night at full throttle, you should be good.

as for the raditator, yeah great idea, try to get the one with the most capacity. is this a straight race car or a street car that goes on the track? you can also look for stuff to cut out of the front of the car so more air moving in the front, you can also use water wetter and see if that helps
So this is my DD i use for work and everything. Is there a certain brand that does not allow for re-using the stock fans? I'm looking at the Koyo one right now.

I'd rather avoid hacking up the bumper, don't mind the hood.

Currently using stock TMIC.
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Old 06-13-2019, 10:18 PM   #10
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That_Boosted_Life hit your best first thing to do. Oil cooler. This should, of course be thermostatically controlled. Along with it, I'd run an oil temperature gauge so you can see where you are.

And I agree with Turpid Porpoise that a lower temp thermostat won't help as your thermostat should already be wide open.

Bring more E85. This stuff has no energy, so the volume of it to make power is much more than 91 and that cools the charge.

Run water with water wetter in the radiator. Water is more efficient at transferring heat than coolant is. Of course, if you are somewhere that it gets below freezing in the winter, remember to go back to anti freeze.

I don't really think you're going to need more than that. If you're worried about coolant and when installed oil temp....turn on the heater.
Heard.

The Oil Coolers are quite pricey. Could you point me to one that has everything i need and isn't braking the bank?

I see a BUNCH of different versions, they all look the same to me.

e85 - I'm bringing (2) 5 gallon jugs next time. I do think this will help tremendously. I was still hitting 210 easily while i was running pure e85. At our 3:00pm Session 100 degrees outside, i have 60/40 91 being the 60 and i hit the 225.

I live in Sacramento, so it does get cold in the winter. SOMETIMES freezing. I would hate to have to change coolant all the time. It's so messy as it runs down the frame and gets over everything.
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Old 06-14-2019, 06:28 AM   #11
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210-225 really isnt that hot to begin with. The boiling point of coolant with a 1 bar cap is 253* so you do have some headroom. That being said, cooling is always beneficial.

Last edited by Turpid Porpoise; 06-14-2019 at 06:46 AM.
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Old 06-14-2019, 07:16 AM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rymaggi View Post
Heard.

The Oil Coolers are quite pricey. Could you point me to one that has everything i need and isn't braking the bank?
What do you consider quite pricey? Back when I had my Lotus, before the manufacturer had a supply of parts to correct line issues, lots of owners built their own solutions using Mocal radiators. Looking around, they're not expensive. Of course, you'll need the sandwich, which I doubt would be all that expensive and a couple lines. I can't see where the whole solution would be more than a few hundred dollars.

I wouldn't be putting in hood vents because it's not reversible. If you decide in the future to run in time trials (or autocrosses), most rule books are going to cream you by bumping you way up in classes for body modifications.
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Old 06-14-2019, 07:55 AM   #13
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Hes probably seeing the perrin kit priced at like $700, I’ve priced out putting together my own oil cooler kit and it comes out to roughly 55-65% of what Perrin charges.
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Old 06-14-2019, 10:24 AM   #14
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Hes probably seeing the perrin kit priced at like $700, I’ve priced out putting together my own oil cooler kit and it comes out to roughly 55-65% of what Perrin charges.
Yea thats exactly what i'm seeing on vendor sites.

I think my first step to cooler temps should be a Koyo radiator and bringing e85 so i can avoid the 91 burn temps.

I'm scared that the plastic reservoirs on the stock radiator will crack, had that happen to my built 06 wagon.

I kind of like some of the vent look. I dont think i would be doing any competitive time trials or autocross. Really just out there to have fun.

Buddy is trying to do another one July 13, we were out there June 12th. So far for maintenance I'm planning the following;


-Possibly ordering a Koyo radiator
-Oil change
-Transmission fluid change
-New brake fluid. (upgrading from stock fluid)
-Some gloves as my hands got sweaty as **** in the heat.
-Another 5 Gal jug to bring more e85.

I'm getting some noise from the rear suspension now, sounds like spring bind or the sway bar which i installed not to long ago may be clunking. Sounds metallic and like what you would think spring bind sounds like a "Deap sounding Metallic TING mixed with a clunk". Any idea on possible culprits?

ALso, my front brakes have started to squeal on 5%-20% brake force. Are they glazed from the track use? 80 grit sand paper fix noise issue? They were quiet leading up to the track.
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Old 06-14-2019, 01:03 PM   #15
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You're trying to solve a problem you don't have really. Had you had the correct fuel, this would have never happened. Unless you have a conservative 91 octane tune, you're gonna overheat at a track when you're pushing the car to the max for long duration.

After my experience with Mishimoto radiators, the only one I'll get is the high end Koyo if my stock unit can't keep up. The stock radiator with it's crimped on plastic end tanks, is superior to most aftermarket radiators when it comes to cooling.

As someone mentioned above, you can easily piece together an oil cooler kit. It's not problematic unless your craftsmanship is poor. And I agree with a previous poster: whereas you take the load off the coolant when you're cooling your oil. It's a no brainer for a car going to the track.
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Old 06-14-2019, 06:29 PM   #16
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You're trying to solve a problem you don't have really. Had you had the correct fuel, this would have never happened. Unless you have a conservative 91 octane tune, you're gonna overheat at a track when you're pushing the car to the max for long duration.

After my experience with Mishimoto radiators, the only one I'll get is the high end Koyo if my stock unit can't keep up. The stock radiator with it's crimped on plastic end tanks, is superior to most aftermarket radiators when it comes to cooling.

As someone mentioned above, you can easily piece together an oil cooler kit. It's not problematic unless your craftsmanship is poor. And I agree with a previous poster: whereas you take the load off the coolant when you're cooling your oil. It's a no brainer for a car going to the track.
Thing is, my 91 map is conservative, super conservative.

I also don't know anything about oil coolers or where to start when sourcing correct parts..
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Old 06-15-2019, 04:16 PM   #17
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I don't really think you're going to need more than that. If you're worried about coolant and when installed oil temp....turn on the heater.
We used to tow our boat with a 6-cylinder Jeep through the Rockies, going up some steep grades with 100 degree temps. Heater was -- painful but incredibly effective, as it is a ducted radiator.
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Old 06-17-2019, 08:57 AM   #18
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We used to tow our boat with a 6-cylinder Jeep through the Rockies, going up some steep grades with 100 degree temps. Heater was -- painful but incredibly effective, as it is a ducted radiator.
Noted. Looks like we're going back July 13th for the HPDE Stg2. Supposed to be focused on flags, open passing, etc.

Currently tracking on Continental DWS's and i'll say, these things have held up great. I got put into the fast group with a GT3, Alfa Romeo (which was stupid fast) and i had no issue staying right on their asses.

Later after our 4th lead/follow session, our instructor told us we were 1 of 2 fastest groups they've had this year which was pretty cool. I couldn't even imagine how much faster I could have pushed it with 265/35 summer tires.
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Old 06-17-2019, 09:11 AM   #19
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Don't focus on who you're grouped with. Focus on what the instructor is telling you and do that. I'll say with full confidence that your instructor could go out with a stock Miata and be running faster lap times than a n00b in a GT-3 RS. The line works, when you understand where it is and how to use it.
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Old 06-17-2019, 10:26 AM   #20
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Quote:
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Don't focus on who you're grouped with. Focus on what the instructor is telling you and do that. I'll say with full confidence that your instructor could go out with a stock Miata and be running faster lap times than a n00b in a GT-3 RS. The line works, when you understand where it is and how to use it.


Um, Iím not sure the impression I gave with that comment but Iím going to go ahead and say you took it the wrong way....
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Old 06-18-2019, 05:24 PM   #21
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Simply doing a bigger rad isn't necessarily going to improve cooling by leaps and bounds. Research the impact of a thicker rad core in a stock location without any supporting mods for air flow. A lot of discussion in that link I shared in post #2.

Oil cooler would be best bang for your buck. Even if you just bought a core from summit racing, some hoses, an oil filter adapter from somewhere like Perrin, and figured out your own mounting solution. Point is, off load the stock radiator by cooling your oil first, especially if you're not going to do anything to help with radiator flow (like hood vents or a front splitter).
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Old 06-18-2019, 06:26 PM   #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Turpid Porpoise View Post
210-225 really isnt that hot to begin with. The boiling point of coolant with a 1 bar cap is 253* so you do have some headroom. That being said, cooling is always beneficial.

Water temp is hot but not excessive as stated above.
If your running all out on 100 degree weather with those temps I think your fine with just proper servicing.
Not sure if you mention oil temps?
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Old 06-18-2019, 08:02 PM   #23
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hell ill hit 217 just going to and from work on a hot day. Seems very controlled so far.
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Old 06-19-2019, 12:40 PM   #24
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Simply doing a bigger rad isn't necessarily going to improve cooling by leaps and bounds. Research the impact of a thicker rad core in a stock location without any supporting mods for air flow. A lot of discussion in that link I shared in post #2.

Oil cooler would be best bang for your buck. Even if you just bought a core from summit racing, some hoses, an oil filter adapter from somewhere like Perrin, and figured out your own mounting solution. Point is, off load the stock radiator by cooling your oil first, especially if you're not going to do anything to help with radiator flow (like hood vents or a front splitter).
Totally hear you. I'll speak with my tuner regarding the oil cooler stuff.

I do want to do hood venting and ducting. However i don't know where to find, not home made, ducting. I see that theres 1 radiator cover that ducts and directs air into the engine bay, but its $270. That seems extremely steep. The Cobb radiator shroud looks like, but i'm not sure how much these "Standard" ones help.
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Old 06-19-2019, 12:41 PM   #25
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Water temp is hot but not excessive as stated above.
If your running all out on 100 degree weather with those temps I think your fine with just proper servicing.
Not sure if you mention oil temps?
Unfortunately no oil gauge. I guess it wouldn't hurt to have one somewhere. I'm not big on dressing up the cabin with gauges though. Wonder what they've come up with that look subtle in the 15+'s

Also, staying up on servicing. Going to change my oil. Do my first transmission fluid change (Motul 75w90) and rear diff (Motul 75w90 LS). Also, upgrading brake fluid. Anything else that i should be doing? next track day is July 13th.
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