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Old 05-23-2001, 05:57 PM   #1
Ginseng
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Unhappy What's the fuss about Prodrive P7s??

For some time now, a handful of dedicated Scooby parts dealers have offered the Prodrive P7 wheels at a pretty good price of $225. Ok, now a couple of controversial posts later and after a purely capitalistic market management move by a large company (which is not illegal BTW) and these wheels are the hot thing at $34 more per corner. Why is that? I got so whipped up by the furor that I almost ordered a set today because I was worried some giant would control and jack up the price I might potentially have to pay. But then I calmed down and plan to let the whole issue sort itself out.

From speaking with with a few of these dedicated vendors, they are as surprised as we all were by the deal that Tirerack supposedly arranged with Prodrive on the distribution and availability of these wheels. So maybe the chagrin that we as customers are experiencing pales in contrast to the angst about the agenda behind this action. In fact, what is at stake is an attempt by Prodrive to service the burgeoning Subaru enthusiast market and capitalize on the excitement generated by the introduction of the WRX. Again, this is not illegal and this being a capitalist society. What is disturbing to me though, is what Prodrive may have told or hinted to these dedicated Scooby vendors and how this deal, the first of many perhaps, manifested in the marketplace and how it left us all feeling, vendors and customers alike.

Clearly there has been a fuss generated and all I can do is hope that Prodrive do right by us here in the states and that they do right by the folks who have been faithfully selling what precious few tidbits they have allowed to come to our shores over the years.
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Old 05-23-2001, 06:50 PM   #2
ANZAC_1915
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Perhaps they were a slow mover and decided that Tire Rack could sell them quicker and they have a new wheel coming?
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Old 05-23-2001, 07:41 PM   #3
N8S_WRX
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The business transaction is legal. This is a country where this can take place. This is also a car club that has people and purchasing power. As we are being advertised a high price for an item that we all know is above what the product used to be priced I see it as our responsibility to let them know that it is unacceptable.

Bottom line is that I already own these wheels, and I wouldn't have known about any of this if this vendor hadn't posted inappropriately in this forum.

-nathan
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Old 05-23-2001, 10:12 PM   #4
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NBS_WRX,

I understand your upset, and I understand why your upset. I agree that this is an interesting problem. Many people have said various things, some in a better position to know whats actually happening than others. How about a new theory? Since alot of people have offered their own.

P7's have been out for quite a while. Various places offered them at a set price. Speedline all of the sudden has ramped up production and they are coming stateside in force. Speedline had to raise the price they sell them at in order to offer this many. Tirerack's price shows a price adjusted for the higher cost.

Sounds logical to me. But then again, there is very few people who really know what actually happened.

As I understand it, your original beef started with post that should better be in the vendor forum, and then it morphed into this P7 injustice problem. These issues should likely be addressed seperatly, so we can at least resolve the one that goes against I-Club rules.

Anyway, if we jump on vendors too strongly, maybe they will no longer be willing to support the Subaru community. There is a small enough amount of respected companies doing it already. It might not be smart to decrease that number.

Just one man's humble thoughts,
Dan
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Old 05-24-2001, 06:52 AM   #5
Jon Bogert
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Thumbs down

It is absolutely correct to criticize Tirerack in this situation.

I've probably bought as many tires from them as anyone, and I'll continue to do so in the future. However, like many companies doing business with on-line communities, they really needed to pay better attention in this case. If a company makes one dumb move, they can forever damage their credibility with a group of people that loves to compare notes and never forgets.

Tirerack has a lot of good credit built up, but they committed a real faux pas by cornering the market on a popular product and raising the price beyond what everyone knows is fair. Mike Shields at SPD was not known for his thin margins, but he could sell them for $225. What kind of rude markup is Tirerack taking anyway???
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Old 05-24-2001, 10:37 AM   #6
kelley nelson
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Help a latecomer out; is TireRack the sole distributor of P7 and P1 wheels now?

-k
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Old 05-24-2001, 10:44 AM   #7
Subie Gal
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Exclamation

hi Kelley...

that's the rumor... that's what TireRack posted here anyway.. and Prodrive has confirmed...

cya!
j. www.subiegal.com
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Old 05-24-2001, 10:46 AM   #8
BradWRX
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Glenn,

You may have just hit the target! I for one don't really like the P7 (I know you don't either), it's looks are ok, but way to heavy. Yes, the P1's have the right look. I was going to get P1's, but again I feel they are heavy. In a supply and demand world with other (maybe even better) wheels available other than Prodrives, maybe your right about the P7 being a slow mover in the future. Is this short term hipe on the P7 while people want wheels now for the WRX? I hope Prodrive does come out with even better wheels in the future.
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Old 05-24-2001, 10:48 AM   #9
EricB
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Zahnster,

You're right, we don't know what happenned.
But they're behavior looks suspicious. Monopolized the market for this wheel, and raise the price. Of course, it's perfectly legal, but it's also perfectly legal for all of us to voice our displeasure.

If Tire Rack had a sound reason for doing this, I would've thought they'd have spoken up and told us. Instead, we got an explanation about the other services Tire Rack provides. Worthy services no doubt, but if they need to charge more for these services, why do their tire prices seem to be about the lowest around?

This is all speculation of course, but it just looks a bit fishy.

I've also bought many tires from them in the past 10 years, and most likely will continue to do so. As for rims, well.... I'm going to start looking around again.


Eric
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Old 05-24-2001, 01:36 PM   #10
ANZAC_1915
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Neither Tire Rack or Prodrive has said anything about the P1 - that is just a fear that everyone is having right now.

Sure, the P1's are a little heavier but now that I have mine it really isn't that noticable and they are a beautifully made wheel - water even beads on them when you wash em!

If you are after really light wheels I think the BBSs from Subaru @ $2400 are actually a good deal (seriously).

Glenn
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Old 05-24-2001, 01:46 PM   #11
Opie
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The P7's and the P1's are still availible from other suppliers. Mastro Subaru is one of them.

Tire Rack may have purchased Prodrive's current stock, but the wheels will still be availible...Mastro has several sets right now.

Annother thing to consider, Prodrive is a premier supplier of Subaru parts to the rest of the world. We are talking AMG/Mercedes quality stuff here, not APC/Honda stuff. It's going to be pricey, as demand rises...so will the price. I don't like it either, but that's the way of the world sometimes.
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Old 05-24-2001, 03:03 PM   #12
ANZAC_1915
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Mastro said "P7's while stock lasts".
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Old 07-18-2001, 03:45 PM   #13
jpimienta
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Does anybody know where can I get the P7's other than Mastro and Tirerack?. The Mastro WRX site has been down for a couple of days and it would be great to save the $136 extra Tirerack charges for them.

Thanks a lot.

JP
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Old 07-18-2001, 03:53 PM   #14
Overtime
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TRi arranged something with the Tire Rack to sell P7s for something like $230 a wheel.

Mike Shields and ISR are both selling them for $225 still, AFAIK...and as Jon stated before, neither shop is known for small markups.
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Old 07-18-2001, 04:12 PM   #15
ThinkTank
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Default please post the URLs of those selling P7s for $225.

I can't find any of them. Tirerack sux for jacking the prices and then closing the market to competition.
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Old 07-18-2001, 06:25 PM   #16
Zahnster
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You should see what the local dealer is charging for them on new cars off the lot. $2000 with tires.

Those better be some expensive tires.
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Old 07-18-2001, 06:47 PM   #17
Ken Levin
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Exclamation

I support the independent aftermarket (Mike Shields, etal) over Tire Rack, WheelWorks etc. I would (and have) put my money where my mouth is, and pay a bit more as well if necessary.

So, the owners of this site made a publicity deal with Tire RacK. That doesn't mean we are captive to them. They are free to make their deals, and we are free to let our dollars speak in the marketplace.

Happy Motoring!
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Old 07-18-2001, 08:50 PM   #18
elemental
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isn't the price supposed to go down with large throughput rather than up(same net profit, large movers + low profit = small movers + high profit)? i'm confused too
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Old 07-19-2001, 01:12 AM   #19
solomrus
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i agree with ken.

put up a little more of your money and buy from a vendor that will appreciate your business. it comes back around to you in service and support. to me, it is well worth the 20 or 30 bucks extra.
it is still a bargain.

last i heard, you are free to give your money to whomever you decide.


Elemental:

there are two things that can happen if tirerack is the only place that sells em.

one is that the rest of the supply dries up at the current $225 price point, and no one buys from tirerack. (ideal, IMO) then, when the big guy realizes that he has an aceload of wheels that nobody wants, he drops price to reduce overhead.

we make a killing this way.

the other thing that could happen, is that the alternate supplies dry up, therefore channeling the demand to tirerack from people that are willing to pay the price they are asking, or more. when this happens, the price will tend to wander higher, as they will know they have us by the ba**s.

in the end, it all depends on what we the buyers decide to do. you earned the money, and you decide who to give it to.

--r
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Old 07-19-2001, 01:27 AM   #20
elemental
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i was just replying to this statement:

Speedline all of the sudden has ramped up production and they are coming stateside in force. Speedline had to raise the price they sell them at in order to offer this many.

wasn't really sure what he meant... what do they have to pay for that makes them raise the price when they are sending more units rather than less? because of the extra manufacturing equipment bought to step up production or what? or did he mean design of new rims, pay for that? i don't keep up with rims that much, im happy with my stockers for now
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Old 07-19-2001, 01:42 AM   #21
Zahnster
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That was quite a while ago. I'm not sure why that made sense at the time.

An interesting piece of information I got at a recent Subaru get together might explain why we got stock 16" wheels. Because Prodrive had an overstock of 17" P7's and they wanted to sell them to us.

This wasn't from just anybody, and I won't reveal who they are, but let me just say this guy knows what he's talking about on this subject.
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Old 07-19-2001, 01:55 AM   #22
elemental
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hahah, ooh connections, that's cool

i don't care for the p7s to drop either amount of money on them, and i think what they are doing is legal, but it's quite elitist and i'd try to avoid business like that, hope you guys can fight it
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Old 07-19-2001, 02:04 AM   #23
ANZAC_1915
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Quote:
An interesting piece of information I got at a recent Subaru get together might explain why we got stock 16" wheels. Because Prodrive had an overstock of 17" P7's and they wanted to sell them to us.

This wasn't from just anybody, and I won't reveal who they are, but let me just say this guy knows what he's talking about on this subject.
To the best of my knowledge that is just not true. I know that Simon and Mike will probably not choose to reply to this, but I'm going to give my $0.02.

Prodrive's relationship with SOA on the product side is not visibly good is it. See any Prodrive bits selling through US Subaru dealers lately? Did we get a US300? PPP with full warranty through dealer? Hmm.... not that I can recall.

I asked Subaru once about bringing Prodrive stuff over - the high--up SOA person in question said "why bother? we can get all the good stuff from STi in Japan".

So if there were some 17" STi (or, hmm, expensive BBS) wheels that Subaru was hawking, I'd believe that, but not to help out Prodrive!

The reason we got 16 x 6.5" wheels, downspec brakes, no climate control, etc. etc. was one thing: COST. It was extremely important that this car's price (and therefore spec) be as low as possible (highest possible bang-per-buck for launch).

Although you may not believe me, as I might just be Subaru's puppet.

Glenn
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Old 07-19-2001, 03:30 AM   #24
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Quote:
Although you may not believe me, as I might just be Subaru's puppet.
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Old 07-19-2001, 09:40 AM   #25
Simon Lines
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Hi All

Apologies for not posting a reply sooner, I’ve been real busy. I am also a little concerned about people's hidden agenda's on this post, i think their could be a number of vendors trying to make bad press for Prodrive and / or Tire Rack. Having said that i feel the need to comment.

In the past I (and yes i do me "I" because I alone have been responsible for the export of Prodrive Subaru parts for the last 1.5 years) have supplied the US mainly through SPD. Mike has done / is doing a great job, but you have to remember we were talking about a relatively small market for a car that the rest of the world did not have (normally aspirated RS). The arrival of the WRX has changed this, you now have basically the same car as RoW, and we (Prodrive) have a whole raft of products that you can use.

It is my job to maximise the penetration of these parts into the market, also to make sure that I am responding to the end users to the best of my ability. This means asking for the correct parts, making sure the Prodrive name is not devalued and trying to keep the pricing in line with our position in the marketplace (I like the AMG analogy that has been drawn)

So what am I saying? Well that my position and sales depend on the you the end users, I am trying to make our parts available to anybody that wants them. As has already been said nobody holds a gun to your head and tells you to have one product over another, it’s your choice – you have a free choice. I am just trying to give everyone the possibility to choose Prodrive, instead of the old situation were you either couldn’t get it, had to wait for months or had to import it yourself.

I am aware one vendor has been casting aspersions in our direction, please remember – there are always two sides to a story.

Thanks for your time, I hope the genuine ones among you can take this the way it’s meant.

Cheers

Simon

BTW – Glenn is correct
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