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05-11-2012, 07:26 AM | #51 |
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Plus, over 6 years gas is very likely to average > $4. So you are being generous.
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05-11-2012, 08:31 AM | #52 |
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Great analysis shik!!
I think you may have tipped the scales in your favor a bit by using the 4x4 loaded rav4 but very thorough none the less Also you taught me something. The electric vehicle incentive starts to taper off from 7500 dollars if you make more than 55k jointly? Really ? Do I understand that correctly? Does it go to zero at a certain income level? Since you are a physician without telling us how much you make since it is none of our business how much of that incentive can you expect? |
05-11-2012, 08:39 AM | #53 | |
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05-11-2012, 09:10 AM | #54 | |||
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05-11-2012, 10:18 AM | #55 |
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Well what kind of mileage does the 2WD V6 get? You could use that as refinement, as the EV is only 2WD. I know the equipment is not exactly on par but the point remains, you are NOT making a financial statement, you are making a ethical one, and while I would NEVER do it, I fully support your right to do so (and I salute you for it!). I support any passionate vehicle purchase, right uppuntil I start getting my passions dictated to me by some governmental agency.
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05-11-2012, 10:28 AM | #56 |
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22 mpg combined for the 2WD and 4WD models alike.
http://fueleconomy.gov/feg/Find.do?a...32197&id=32201 |
05-11-2012, 10:41 AM | #57 |
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wow! I would have never guessed! Okay, bud, I stand down!
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05-11-2012, 11:06 AM | #58 | |
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Granted, Think's don't cost $50k either. |
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05-12-2012, 08:26 AM | #59 | |
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05-12-2012, 11:17 AM | #60 | |
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Tesla quotes 86% charging efficiency for their Roadster's 53 kWh battery + charger setup, see link below. They also quote 0.215 kWh/mi energy efficiency for said obese-Lotus Roadster, so I feel the combination of my 90% charging efficiency estimate for the smaller RAV4 EV pack and 0.440 kWh/mi energy efficiency for the larger, heavier vehicle probably are close to reality, if not a bit conservative yet. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tesla_R...rgy_efficiency By discount rate do you mean the value of the money not spent up front for the EV in the gas scenario? With savings accounts yielding 1.1%, if that, it's not such a big concern to me. 12k miles over a year works out to 32 miles and change per day. That's certainly possible even with the charge-only-at-home scenario that must will adhere to (my guess). |
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05-12-2012, 11:33 AM | #61 | |
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again, i think the 100 mile range would be a major PITA to be recharging all the time if it were purchased by someone who did put a lot of miles on their vehicle. |
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05-12-2012, 11:48 AM | #62 |
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Read my post later in the thread (#50, at the bottom of the first page if you're on non-n00b settings). At $4/gal and $0.10/kWh, compared against a more feature- and performance-matched RAV4 it breaks even at just over 6 years.
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05-13-2012, 12:32 AM | #63 | |
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If you drive it 80 miles a day, every day to work a 5-day-a-week job, you'll put nearly 19,000 miles on it a year. |
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05-13-2012, 10:49 PM | #64 | ||
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05-14-2012, 09:02 AM | #65 |
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Eh, I've made so many assumptions in my "analysis" anyway that I hardly figure that the discount rate is significant (or the charging efficiency, for that matter).
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08-03-2012, 10:08 AM | #66 | ||
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The battery has a nominal 41.8 kWh battery capacity as above, with the surprising thing being that the default charging settings are such that only 35 kWh are used in order to maximize the pack's lifetime, possibly to make sure that the 8 yr/100k mile warranty on that battery (as per CARB's regulations) doesn't turn into a money-sink for Toyota. The 10 kW on-board Tesla charger "uses a standards-based charging interface", presumably SAE J1772, as opposed to Tesla-branded Tesla's, which use their own proprietary connector + adapters when on the road. This is a good thing, even though ChaDeMo Level 3 DC quick charging capability is conspicuously absent. The projected EPA range certification is 92 miles with 35 kWh usable pack capacity and 113 miles when drawing down the full 41.8 kWh. For comparison, here are the EPA ranges for a few other EVs: 62 miles for the Mitsubishi iMiEV, 73 miles for the Nissan Leaf, and 76 for the Ford Focus Electric. If the 40 kWh Tesla Model S's range scales linearly with pack size as compared to its 85 kWh brother, then such a beast would go 124 miles on the EPA's tests, which are a bit conservative compared to reality provided one's not a beast with the HVAC system. (If one is a true driving ascetic then 170 miles is supposedly theoretically possible from the RAV4 EV.) The center of gravity is low, illustrated here: Quote:
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08-03-2012, 04:40 PM | #67 |
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I wonder how much my driving habits would need to change in order to get the advertised 92 miles... that would be very close to my 90 mile commute.
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08-03-2012, 05:19 PM | #68 |
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Do not even think about that. The batteries like all batteries will degrade. In one year you will not be able to meet your commute needs. That is only a 2.2% reduction in range
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08-03-2012, 08:27 PM | #69 | |
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08-04-2012, 12:48 PM | #70 |
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More photos and info from TTAC:
- New-gen 8" Entune infotainment system with voice control of iDevices and the like. - Same motor as the Model S! The lower output of 154HP and 273 lb-ft (!) is via differences in battery pack power, DC-DC converter power, and controller programming. - The 41.8 kWh pack uses the same cells but is not physically identical to the 40 kWh pack in the base Model S. http://i.imgur.com/UdGZKh.jpg http://i.imgur.com/2NMpZh.jpg http://i.imgur.com/TWelXh.jpg http://i.imgur.com/4D30wh.jpg http://i.imgur.com/u3iQ4h.jpg http://i.imgur.com/PZMB5h.jpg http://i.imgur.com/EVqEPh.jpg http://i.imgur.com/FypsZh.jpg |
08-04-2012, 01:44 PM | #71 |
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I think this is a nice EV who can afford it.
I don't think people who buy EVs currently are worried about the comparison between it and a gasoline version. They are not selling in large volume, it is to promote consumer interest and fund electric R&D/technology. No one who are interested in it are doing all the calculations you guys are doing, If you are then it wasn't for you. People who are going to purchase one are not poor and not struggling to maximize fuel savings. They want something fresh, clean, and the idea behind it. |
08-04-2012, 02:21 PM | #72 |
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Speaking of large electric vehicles. Saw a 30 ft delivery (Duane reade) truck that was all electric yesterday.
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08-06-2012, 09:59 AM | #73 |
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Instead of making autos multi fuel like they successfully did in Brazil Obama decided we will all drive electric cars.A better idea would be to have autos use LNG or CNG as we now have abundant supply of clean burning gas. I wonder if he ever sat and waited for one to recharge? Not much has changed in 100 years battery technology. Too slow to recharge and not enough miles between charges.
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08-06-2012, 11:12 AM | #74 | |
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Yes CNG or LNG is a much better bet for awhile, but if we go crazy we won't have an abundance of NG anymore. I do agree that it is a viable short term idea, but it seems only tangentially related since electrics can still find a niche and the progress on battery technology will benefit so many different uses it is somewhat staggering. |
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08-06-2012, 11:54 AM | #75 |
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Shale sourced NG has life cycle co2 emissions on par with gasoline, iirc. Burning it is cleaner but getting it from the earth isn't.
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