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Old 10-09-2006, 08:34 AM   #1
Howl
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Default Bill C-19 could spell the end of rallying in Canada

Bill C-19 could spell the end of rallying and many other racing events in Canada.

http://www2.parl.gc.ca/HousePublicat...Mode=1&File=24

Which would be added to the current legislation:
http://www.canlii.org/ca/sta/c-46/sec249.html

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“street racing” means operating a motor vehicle in a race with at least one other motor vehicle on a street, road, highway or other public place;
The issue is "race" is not defined. A race could include any timed event including a performance rally, TSD rally, and even a RallyX or AutoX event held on public property. The way the proposed legislation is currently worded it looks like it would also capture events like the Molson Indy and Canadian Grand Prix which are held in public places.

Therefore the drivers in any of these events could face up to five years in prison just for participating. Only events that are completely on private property would be allowed.

I know the Canadian Association of Rally Sport (CARS) is currently lobbying the government to get the bill changed. I assume other motorsports groups are doing the same.
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Old 10-09-2006, 01:46 PM   #2
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I'm not certain on this, but when you obtain permits to run an event (whether it's a performance rally or a street course race) doesn't that road essentially become "private"?
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Old 10-09-2006, 05:38 PM   #3
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No, it doesn't. It becomes a public road that has limited access.

A mountie with a chip on his shoulder could still arrest people and create a huge problem, because the law is poorly worded.
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Old 10-09-2006, 06:02 PM   #4
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Originally Posted by XenoWolf View Post
I'm not certain on this, but when you obtain permits to run an event (whether it's a performance rally or a street course race) doesn't that road essentially become "private"?
Yes but in the state of Texas because the legislature passed a law declaring this. The law was passed several years ago to allow the Dallas Grand Prix which used public roads.
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Old 10-09-2006, 06:23 PM   #5
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Yes but in the state of Texas because the legislature passed a law declaring this. The law was passed several years ago to allow the Dallas Grand Prix which used public roads.
Generally it is much easier to fix problems like this BEFORE a law goes into effect, rather than to except the situation out with yet another law or an ammendment.

Someone just didn't think through the implications of the wording.

Hopefully the Targa Newfoundland people are on this. That event brings quite a bit of money to what is a fairly limited local economy. They should have some big pull with their MP's. (Congressdroids, for the Yanks).
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Old 10-10-2006, 03:14 AM   #6
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oh please. you wont lose the molson indy because of that law. rolleyes man.
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Old 10-10-2006, 08:39 AM   #7
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oh please. you wont lose the molson indy because of that law. rolleyes man.
I realize that, but it points out how poorly written and thought out this bill is. Obviously the wording needs to be changed, and probably will be. But to what? I believe CARS is trying to make sure sanctioned events, particularly TSD rallys on open roads, are specifically allowed (apparently there is wording in Quebec legislation that recognizes TSD's are a legitimate use of public roads). The problem is the Canadian Government is currently controlled by ultra-conservative, law-and-order type people, who may not care if motorsports people suffer.

Last edited by Howl; 10-10-2006 at 08:44 AM.
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Old 10-10-2006, 10:30 AM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Howl View Post
law-and-order type people


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Old 10-10-2006, 12:33 PM   #9
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Bruton Smith (multiple NASCAR track owner) is trying to get a similar law passed in the US with the intent of forcing street derived courses in CART to be run at fixed facilities.
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Old 10-10-2006, 12:59 PM   #10
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law-and-order type people
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Old 10-10-2006, 01:55 PM   #11
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Originally Posted by silver arrow View Post
Bruton Smith (multiple NASCAR track owner) is trying to get a similar law passed in the US with the intent of forcing street derived courses in CART to be run at fixed facilities.
only in AZ IIRC.
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Old 10-10-2006, 03:03 PM   #12
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I don't know if the AutoX people realize that this would affect them as well. Many AutoX's in Canada are held in parking lots that are considered "public places" under Canadian law.
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Old 10-10-2006, 03:15 PM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Howl View Post
Bill C-19 could spell the end of rallying and many other racing events in Canada.

http://www2.parl.gc.ca/HousePublicat...Mode=1&File=24

Which would be added to the current legislation:
http://www.canlii.org/ca/sta/c-46/sec249.html



The issue is "race" is not defined. A race could include any timed event including a performance rally, TSD rally, and even a RallyX or AutoX event held on public property. The way the proposed legislation is currently worded it looks like it would also capture events like the Molson Indy and Canadian Grand Prix which are held in public places.

Therefore the drivers in any of these events could face up to five years in prison just for participating. Only events that are completely on private property would be allowed.

I know the Canadian Association of Rally Sport (CARS) is currently lobbying the government to get the bill changed. I assume other motorsports groups are doing the same.

But if the parking lot is closed due to autox then it is no longer available to the public, and is thus not public place, at least while the race is going on, and should not fall under that law correct?
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Old 10-10-2006, 04:15 PM   #14
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It depends on how the government defines a public place (i.e. what the legal definition of a public place is in Canadian law). The people I talked to seemed to think that a public place is always a public place whether it's open or not.
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Old 10-10-2006, 07:10 PM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Howl View Post
It depends on how the government defines a public place (i.e. what the legal definition of a public place is in Canadian law). The people I talked to seemed to think that a public place is always a public place whether it's open or not.
Ah, yeah that would really suck
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Old 10-10-2006, 09:35 PM   #16
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I was always under assumption that rally was bigger in Canada than the US. TSD's are really popular up there too. I can't see this not going through a revision or something to more carefully but either way, there's gotta be more to this.

I'm sure there are transportation branches up there who know about CARS, the autox and not to mention the circuit courses and Targa. This seems too premature to say it will end Canadian rally (motorsports?) as we know it.

I'm guessing Canadians aren't allowed to go romping around in the back country on quads & dirt bikes like we can here?
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Old 10-11-2006, 01:02 AM   #17
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these laws will never be actioned the way you're thinking they will
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Old 10-11-2006, 07:57 AM   #18
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Damn ! I hope they change /alter the wording on the Bill
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Old 10-11-2006, 11:30 AM   #19
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Originally Posted by 10th Warrior View Post
only in AZ IIRC.
I think it was federal, because the real target was to move the Grand Prix of Miami to run at Holmstead.
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Old 10-11-2006, 12:11 PM   #20
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Originally Posted by silver arrow View Post
I think it was federal, because the real target was to move the Grand Prix of Miami to run at Holmstead.
http://www.speedtv.com/articles/auto/champcar/25568/
looks like just AZ to me. This, of course, would also cause problems for rally and auto-x.
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Old 10-12-2006, 07:14 AM   #21
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This is a serious threat to rallying, SOLO, road races etc. The law as it stands is painted with such a broad brush that all of these activities will be made illegal. It is not enough to hope that the laws are not enforced to the letter but if they have the leverage, some will use it. CARS has a comittee looking into this and are organizing with other racing disciplines a response and action plan to address this.
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Old 10-12-2006, 04:39 PM   #22
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thats messed up!
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Old 10-12-2006, 04:42 PM   #23
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i wouldn't get to worked up...sactioned racing events are not a negative issue for anyone, they generate money and such. I'm sure all sanctioned racing events will be fine.
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Old 10-13-2006, 05:18 AM   #24
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these laws will never be actioned the way you're thinking they will
correct
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Old 10-13-2006, 09:58 AM   #25
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i wouldn't get to worked up...sactioned racing events are not a negative issue for anyone, they generate money and such. I'm sure all sanctioned racing events will be fine.
They'll be fine until an organizer pisses off the wrong person. Then that person can go to the local gov't and use this law to explain that what they're doing is illegal, and they risk being sued if they allow the race to continue.

Sanctioned racing on public roads is an inconvenience for regular users of those roads. If they can find a legal leg to stand on, they can bring down a race.

It's good to see CARS is being proactive about this.
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