Subaru BRZ and WRX Sales Are Tanking

[fredzy]

Originally Posted by Pre

I don’t remember, the TourX is 100% or you have a 2nd with a 6MT?

My DD replacement is coming up as at 11 years I’m ready for more range or I’ve been pondering going to a GR86 for a DD since I’ve learned the PP is back and only $1500, which is an outstanding deal. I’m not seeing hardly any 86’s in stock, in my region in Premium, 6MT with the PP. They are pretty scarce actually.

TourX is the DD, GR86 is secondary. It gets laid up Nov-April. Dark days right now.

GR86 is starting to sit on lots a bit, at least away from the hot spots like SoCal, TX, FL. Any manual with PP usually won't though. It will take a little luck to land one. PP is a deal no matter how you look at. I will say there are arguments for it not being as must-have as it seems at first glance.

I can't recommend the twins enough. I had no idea it would affect me the way it has. Not everyone who encounters it is smitten, though. I've noticed that folks who are more particular about audio and NVH, or are accustomed to getting pushed back into their seat tend to resist its charm.

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[Pre]

Originally Posted by fredzy

TourX is the DD, GR86 is secondary. It gets laid up Nov-April. Dark days right now.

GR86 is starting to sit on lots a bit, at least away from the hot spots like SoCal, TX, FL. Any manual with PP usually won't though. It will take a little luck to land one. PP is a deal no matter how you look at. I will say there are arguments for it not being as must-have as it seems at first glance.

I can't recommend the twins enough. I had no idea it would affect me the way it has. Not everyone who encounters it is smitten, though. I've noticed that folks who are more particular about audio and NVH, or are accustomed to getting pushed back into their seat tend to resist its charm.

I’ve driven it. NVH is extremely poor but I’d sound deaden it anyway because I have to fix the awful audio system at the same time. So in that sense, it’s no big deal. It’s worse than the JBL system in my CE however and that is really saying something. I’ve done my homework though and it works well in the winter, with winter tires due to the weight. I spent a few hours the other night looking to see if anyone had replaced the HU in it with something aftermarket. I found threads where people were trying but I hadn’t found anyone who had achieved it yet. Perhaps with Eyesight in the MT’s that’s a pipe dream now

I don’t know what I’m going to do yet. Half of me wants to upgrade my current DD to a new one. The other half wants to grab another manual before they are gone and the cost delta would make it where I have to wait an additional year. I thought about the Supra as well but the staggered tires, and tire cost in general (would need new wheels for the summers and stock rims and winter tires for winter), consumables, etc, as well as the high purchase price. But the Supra would get better MPG. Supra is also completely f’in stupid for a DD. The 86 is not however due to cost and because I will be living rural in a couple of years and it’s a twisty, 30 mile drive to town for any big box store crap. I’m stuck in a major metro for a few more years so I have time. Here the 86 would be dumb as rocks for a DD as it’s LA like traffic now but not when I move. Would be excellent there. I’d also like to see what the Celica is when it comes out. 6MT? AWD? Will it be pure ICE or some hybrid bs?

You could solve your problems easily. Get rid of the Buick for another GRC, problem solved! Now you’d have the best setup imaginable!

[deanstevenson]

Originally Posted by fredzy

. . .
Any manual with PP usually won't though. It will take a little luck to land one. PP is a deal no matter how you look at. I will say there are arguments for it not being as must-have as it seems at first glance.
. . .

When you say PP, are you referring to the tS? As in the tS essentially has the previously offered Performance Pack included on a Limited model?

Please excuse my ignorance on this.

[chanomatik]

Pre, add my biased vote for the GR86! I miss my slow BRZ all the time. I still consider going back to one... I'd just have the RTV issue taken care of immediately. Otherwise the Twins are an upgrade all around from the previous gen.

[mcarb002]

Supra with the B58 is a juggernaut

[fredzy]

Originally Posted by Pre

I've driven it. NVH is extremely poor but I'd sound deaden it anyway because I have to fix the awful audio system at the same time. So in that sense, it's no big deal. It's worse than the JBL system in my CE however and that is really saying something. I've done my homework though and it works well in the winter, with winter tires due to the weight. I spent a few hours the other night looking to see if anyone had replaced the HU in it with something aftermarket. I found threads where people were trying but I hadn't found anyone who had achieved it yet. Perhaps with Eyesight in the MT's that's a pipe dream now

I don't know what I'm going to do yet. Half of me wants to upgrade my current DD to a new one. The other half wants to grab another manual before they are gone and the cost delta would make it where I have to wait an additional year. I thought about the Supra as well but the staggered tires, and tire cost in general (would need new wheels for the summers and stock rims and winter tires for winter), consumables, etc, as well as the high purchase price. But the Supra would get better MPG. Supra is also completely f'in stupid for a DD. The 86 is not however due to cost and because I will be living rural in a couple of years and it's a twisty, 30 mile drive to town for any big box store crap. I'm stuck in a major metro for a few more years so I have time. Here the 86 would be dumb as rocks for a DD as it's LA like traffic now but not when I move. Would be excellent there. I'd also like to see what the Celica is when it comes out. 6MT? AWD? Will it be pure ICE or some hybrid bs?

The GR86 really isn't a bad DD. I always wondered how guys managed with a twin as their only car and now I get it. It's not optimal by any means but outside of moving big stuff that can't be handled with a hitch or taking multiple people with you it does pretty well. It would be worth the compromise for the fun.

So, eyesight. If GR86 was going to be my only car and/or I was going to spend a lot of time on the highway or commuting with it, I would consider eyesight a plus. For me though, dropping into my non-eyesight '23 is such a breath of fresh air compared to everything else I've been driving the past 3 years. Simplicity. No modes to fiddle with, no drive settings to be concerned with. And no having to memorize the quickest series of button presses to get the safety nannies turned off prior to engaging in spirited driving. I'm talking lane departure mitigation, steering wheel shaking, beeps and boops spoiling moderately aggressive driving. You see a lot of us luddite-types touting non-eyesight as a benefit now over the 24+ for the pure driving experience but there is some validity to that. Just something to weigh in case you take a glance at the used market. It won't save much $$ vs. buying new yet but bypasses the hell of dealing with Toyotas allocation lottery.

You could solve your problems easily. Get rid of the Buick for another GRC, problem solved! Now you'd have the best setup imaginable!

I'll tell you what - I sure do miss that G16. I'd love to see Toyota's Super Taikyu GR86 up close to see how they put it in there

Originally Posted by deanstevenson

When you say PP, are you referring to the tS? As in the tS essentially has the previously offered Performance Pack included on a Limited model?

Please excuse my ignorance on this.

Performance Package is for the GR86. It can be applied to either the base or Premium trim and adds the same Brembos as the BRZ tS plus Sachs dampers (something a little different than what tS gets) and the 18" wheels from the Premium if you were starting with the base 86. No special finishes, badges or other touches on GR86 PP, as opposed to BRZ tS that does get that kind of stuff.

Originally Posted by chanomatik

Pre, add my biased vote for the GR86! I miss my slow BRZ all the time. I still consider going back to one... I'd just have the RTV issue taken care of immediately. Otherwise the Twins are an upgrade all around from the previous gen.

The RTV was a bit of a red herring. Let's just say the only thing you really need to do is check the oil regularly. For peace of mind, overfill by 0.5 to 1.0 L or so and use something heavier than 0W20. Anything beyond that only becomes necessary with heavy/frequent track use.

[chanomatik]

I've seen those solutions, but in my mind they don't really address the potential issue. I've seen several videos of guys opening up their oil pan for the first time on their brand new, low mileage BRZ/GR86/VB WRX and pull out strands/bits/chunks of RTV, at worst. At best, there was obviously an excessive amount of RTV spilling along the fringes of the pan's interior. There's nothing lost by just having it resealed properly... unless the shop sucks worse than the factory.

[Kostamojen]

Originally Posted by mcarb002

Supra with the B58 is a juggernaut

Having driven one throughly...

Not really.

[fredzy]

Originally Posted by chanomatik

There's nothing lost by just having it resealed properly... unless the shop sucks worse than the factory.

That's why I never really considered it. The only way I know to get it done in a way I'd trust would also probably cost me coverage per Toyota.

[mcarb002]

Originally Posted by Kostamojen

Having driven one throughly...

Not really.

I guess BMW kept goodies from the Supra then. Because in the M340i mated to that Zf8, it absolutely most certainly is a juggernaut.

[ProZach626]

I can only imagine how many WRX's they could sell over their current numbers with a little paint and a very marketable 300 HP.

[deanstevenson]

Originally Posted by fredzy

Performance Package is for the GR86.

Now I get it. Thanks.

I was spinning myself in circles as I didn't see it on the BRZ.

[SoDealer]

Originally Posted by ProZach626

I can only imagine how many WRX's they could sell over their current numbers with a little paint and a very marketable 300 HP.

they don't want to, or they would have already.

[Pre]

Originally Posted by deanstevenson

Now I get it. Thanks.

I was spinning myself in circles as I didn't see it on the BRZ.

Yeah for Subaru you have to buy the TS version. GR86 like he said you can add the PP to the base or Premium which is really nice. Being able to buy a base and add it keeps the cost down. Subaru uses Hitachi dampers on theirs, while Toyota uses Sachs. $1500 is a steal imo and the only reason I’m considering the 86 as my future DD. To get the dampers, Brembos, and in the case of the Base 86, the 18” wheels for that money is killer.

[rexster]

It's not that easy with toyota. They won't let you order anything the way you want. You have to find one at a dealer. I doubt you'll find a base model with just the PP added. They're going to add everything else and a bunch of accessories and it will be just as expensive as the TS, if not more. Toyota dealers suck

[ProZach626]

Originally Posted by SoDealer

they don't want to, or they would have already.

Unless the next model refresh has the same numbers as the new fake STI.

[chanomatik]

There are some No Mark-up dealers (there's one in New England), but, yeah, you're still left with whatever inventory they have available.

[Pre]

Originally Posted by rexster

It's not that easy with toyota. They won't let you order anything the way you want. You have to find one at a dealer. I doubt you'll find a base model with just the PP added. They're going to add everything else and a bunch of accessories and it will be just as expensive as the TS, if not more. Toyota dealers suck

I can order one. Every stealer can, they just only get a few custom orders per year. I went through this in 2023, with my GRC CE. I wanted a specific color. I also had a MY2024 on order to my spec (color only) from my deposit stealer. They only got one CE for 2023 so I was first on the list and they gave me one of their custom orders for 2024 but then I found what I wanted originally and bought it. Now I have a dealer where my rural land is and I can get what I want there. I heard all the same bs in 2023 and I got what I wanted, trim, color, and for MSRP only. So I can do the same again. You just have to patient, and wait, and wait some more.

The thing I can’t do anything about is the port add ons that Gulf States does. You’re definitely stuck with that.

[chanomatik]

Originally Posted by chanomatik

I've seen those solutions, but in my mind they don't really address the potential issue. I've seen several videos of guys opening up their oil pan for the first time on their brand new, low mileage BRZ/GR86/VB WRX and pull out strands/bits/chunks of RTV, at worst. At best, there was obviously an excessive amount of RTV spilling along the fringes of the pan's interior. There's nothing lost by just having it resealed properly... unless the shop sucks worse than the factory.

This dude has several videos of the RTV issue (I've been following him on YT for a while). This one just dropped yesterday. Car has 1,300 miles.

YouTube (Short URL)

YouTube (Short URL)

[JustyWRC]

Originally Posted by ProZach626

Unless the next model refresh has the same numbers as the new fake STI.

Soooo, you don't know what "STI" is. Got it.

[fredzy]

Originally Posted by rexster

It's not that easy with toyota. They won't let you order anything the way you want. You have to find one at a dealer. I doubt you'll find a base model with just the PP added. They're going to add everything else and a bunch of accessories and it will be just as expensive as the TS, if not more. Toyota dealers suck

There was one guy on some other forums who managed to land a white base MT with PP. That will probably go down as pretty much a unicorn. Unfortunately he couldn’t crack driving stick haha, and traded it after I think 6 months. I’d be reluctant to take that one after who knows how many ground gears

[quentinberg007]

Originally Posted by rexster

It's not that easy with toyota. They won't let you order anything the way you want. You have to find one at a dealer. I doubt you'll find a base model with just the PP added. They're going to add everything else and a bunch of accessories and it will be just as expensive as the TS, if not more. Toyota dealers suck

Use the Toyota inventory site, sort for 6MT base, performance package, see what's out there and in transit. The small number of GR 86 on the ground makes it more difficult, but dealerships can also preference what they want.

[Pre]

Originally Posted by chanomatik

This dude has several videos of the RTV issue (I've been following him on YT for a while). This one just dropped yesterday. Car has 1,300 miles.

They are never going to seriously address the issue. If buying one it’s best to drop the oil pan, remove the excess RTV and while you’re doing that it makes the most sense to install aftermarket baffle. That’s at least what I’ll do post break in if I buy one this year.

[SoDealer]

RTV issue for the twins isn't an issue for the 2nd gen. The strainer is a 5 sided construction. There's no flow difference with RTV in the strainer and no RTV. Lazy engineering, but no detriment to oil pressure and therefore reliability.

https://www.gr86.org/threads/rtv-had...ressure.11541/

[Kostamojen]

Its the oil pressure drop on right handers thats the real issue.