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Old 09-03-2020, 02:24 PM   #2326
GK1707
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Originally Posted by Zak6182 View Post
IAG Short block is under warranty and on its way back to them for inspection. If I pulled the piston it would have voided the warranty.
How is the warranty process so far? Are they honoring it since a Subaru dealer did the install?
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Old 09-03-2020, 02:36 PM   #2327
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Im sure they will honer it but they will only cover the cost for the block it self, not the labor, if im not mistaking.
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Old 09-03-2020, 02:46 PM   #2328
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The block is on its way to them and I wont know if they are going to warranty it of not until they get it apart. I will say that so far they have been great about replying to me and helping me get the block to them. I hope it continues. They did say that it will take 3-4 weeks to get it inspected which I'm not crazy about because this is my DD and I'm could go TDY any day now.

Blackfighter is correct. They only cover the short block. I have to pay for shipping, parts, gaskets and labor at the dealer. It kind of sucks but if they covered all that for everyone I'd guess there'd a bunch of people trying to scam them out of money. I'm not sure how the warranty would work if a iag certified installer did the work. Maybe they would cover it all. I don't have an installer near me so I that wasn't an option.
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Old 09-16-2020, 03:00 PM   #2329
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Update --- I just heard from IAG. The damage in the cylinder is foreign and not covered under warranty. They said that due to the damage I'd be better off buying a new SB. Basically I'm F'd!! If anyone is looking for me I'll be on the street corner trying to make a few bucks.

For those wondering about the IAG warranty process. For me it was a good experience. IAG almost always replied the same day and answered all my questions. They said it was going to take 3-4 weeks to look at the damage but it only took a week. Huge thanks to them for rushing that to help me in this situation. It would have really sucked to wait for 3-4 weeks just to find this out.

I have no doubt that had the issue be from workmanship I'd be getting a new or repaired SB for free. Also, they were nice enough to offer me a discount on a new block since I'm in a bind. I'm not sure what I'm going to do as of right now. I don't have the cash to pony up for another SB and pay for the labor, parts, etc. Life sure is a MF sometimes.
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Old 09-16-2020, 04:08 PM   #2330
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The damage in the cylinder is foreign and not covered under warranty
What does that mean? Was there a foreign object in your cyl? Where did it come from? What is it? Is it magnetic? Did they send you pics of the object? The description of failure is non existing. Just because someone is nice does not mean you should believe everything they say. Make sure you get everything answered so you don't stay on the corner for longer then you have too.
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Old 09-16-2020, 04:23 PM   #2331
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What does that mean? Was there a foreign object in your cyl? Where did it come from? What is it? Is it magnetic? Did they send you pics of the object? The description of failure is non existing. Just because someone is nice does not mean you should believe everything they say. Make sure you get everything answered so you don't stay on the corner for longer then you have too


See post #2321 for pics. The piece was found in the exhuast by the shop and is magnetic. Short version of what they said (I don't have pics of the SB) they split the case and couldn't find where the piece came from. I could ask for pics but if someone is willing to lie then they are willing to send me random pics of good parts.
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Old 09-16-2020, 04:51 PM   #2332
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Ow im an idiot, I saw those pics, by bad. Weren't we waiting to see how the pistons looked? And if the object was form the piston.
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Old 09-17-2020, 08:15 AM   #2333
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Yes and since they said the piece didn't come from anything in the SB, then it came from the install or something came apart. I'm going to make sure the shop goes over everything between the air filter and the head and then I'm going to go over everything as well.

Now to decide on what short block to go with...
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Old 09-17-2020, 10:23 AM   #2334
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Well it looks like you have decided to go with their decision and not fight it. But if it was me, i would demand to see all of my parts to make sure they are all intact, like pistons. If something came apart then it was not assembled correctly, which make it their fault. Something that big can not be sucked in via intake and not damage the turbo. If it was post assembly then that pcs must have been inside your intercooler or IC piping without your knowledge, but even then i cant imagine that going all the way through the valves. If it was able to get in, then it should have went out via the exhaust valves.
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Old 09-20-2020, 11:16 AM   #2335
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Default Isn’t there a fix for these problems?

What is with these STi engine failures? What causes main bearing failures and why isn’t there a fix. I just sold a Porsche with 140,000 miles and I went to redline regularly without worrying about main bearings. Surely, something is wrong and can be solved. All I am hearing is how to clean the engine after a failure.

If it is oil, would a dry sump fix it? If it is clearance then wouldn’t that fix it.

My brother just told me that at 140,000 miles, his 2012 STi is on its fourth STi engine (at $7,000). Good grief, isn’t there a solution?

regards,
Peter
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Old 09-20-2020, 04:21 PM   #2336
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Originally Posted by Ptkacik View Post
What is with these STi engine failures? What causes main bearing failures and why isn’t there a fix. I just sold a Porsche with 140,000 miles and I went to redline regularly without worrying about main bearings. Surely, something is wrong and can be solved. All I am hearing is how to clean the engine after a failure.

If it is oil, would a dry sump fix it? If it is clearance then wouldn’t that fix it.

My brother just told me that at 140,000 miles, his 2012 STi is on its fourth STi engine (at $7,000). Good grief, isn’t there a solution?

regards,
Peter
There is an old saying, "it's all in the tune".

I have over 140,000 trouble free miles on my EJ257. The previous engine in the car which was a EJ255 was dynoed and tuned at 21psi when I installed a vf52 to replace the vf40 which was on its way out. That was back in Aug 2011. That winter I planned the next step for April 2012. I ordered a new EJ257 and gasket set for my year car. May 2012 I started the car with the EJ257 for the first time. Drove it on the 21psi tune for 500 miles, then met with my Tuner for a street tune. He made a couple very small adjustments and the rest is history.

The engine sees redline regularly all I have done to the engine is the timing belt when it had 105,000 miles and plugs, oh I think one front O2 sensor.

Car currently has 295,000 miles on stock fueling and all engine sensors/ electronics that came on the car when it was assembled May 28 2004.

It's all in the tune. my Tuner is [email protected]
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Old 09-20-2020, 05:48 PM   #2337
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My brothers STi is bone stock and he is on his fourth engine. Every oil change was at the dealer. All four engines came from the dealer. No Cobb-3, nothing, not even a fancy oil filter.

Is there anything I can recommend to help him? He doesn’t race but at 70, he drives like a teenager.
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Old 09-20-2020, 05:58 PM   #2338
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BTW, I read about a Killer B Oil Pan package but don’t need flashy hot rod parts that don’t match the factory quality. I don’t even know if that is a fix or just one of those inexpensive hot rod parts like “Blue spun aluminum oil filter caps”.

And maybe his problem is from the dealer never really cleaning from the first blown engine.

Thanks again,
Peter
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Old 09-20-2020, 06:01 PM   #2339
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Max Capacity:

Maybe I misread your post. Are you saying that factory tuning is the problem? What tune are you recommending?

Thanks a second time,
Peter
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Old 09-20-2020, 06:28 PM   #2340
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Oh, one other detail, my brother’s STi got a factory Cat Back exhaust when he bought the car from the dealer.
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Old 09-20-2020, 07:03 PM   #2341
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My brothers STi is bone stock and he is on his fourth engine.
He keeps having rod bearing failures? If so, at some point I'd suspect that this is a driver problem, not an engine problem.

"...he drives like a teenager"...
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Old 09-20-2020, 07:16 PM   #2342
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ptkacik View Post
My brothers STi is bone stock and he is on his fourth engine. Every oil change was at the dealer. All four engines came from the dealer. No Cobb-3, nothing, not even a fancy oil filter.

Is there anything I can recommend to help him? He doesn’t race but at 70, he drives like a teenager.
Oh, another old guy, I'm 65y/o.

Get the car off the factory tune ASAP. The Cobb AP v3 at least. Both my car's have Cobb AP with a custom tune for each car.

My 2005 Legacy GT wagon was put on Cobb AP V1 at 8000 miles when Cobb first released AP for the Legacy GT's. that date was Dec 08 2004.

When the machine shop rebuild the heads for the EJ257, he said, mine were the first set of Subaru heads he'd seen that didn't need any valves.

My Tuner had found a timing issue while having his brothers Legacy GT on his dyno in 2004.

When I first met with the Tuner in 2008 he mentioned what he had learned about the factory MAP. When I mentioned that to my machine shop, who is a long time family friend, he said, Oh that explains why so many of these engines have burnt valves.

I also use Amsoil 5w-40 and their filters doing 7000 mile oil changes after sending the first Amsoil sample off to Blackstone Labs at 7000 miles on the oil. Blackstone told me to leave the oil in there 2000 more miles and send in another sample. That was back in 2012. I do 7-8000 oil changes.

Another thing I've learned about these engines, they do much better when driven for long distance. None of my drives are short, stop and go, shut it off, start it up, shut it off. Both cars are driven at least 10 miles highway 90% of the time.

In 16 years on the legacygt.com forum, those of us with high mileage cars have fewer issues.

When my trusted mechanic did the timing belt at 105,000 miles he mentioned how quiet the engine was. No subaru sounds, piston slap.

( replaced engine because of oil usage from some abuse we did to the engine playing with a MBC. )

Last edited by Max Capacity; 09-21-2020 at 07:59 AM.
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Old 09-23-2020, 08:43 PM   #2343
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Originally Posted by Ptkacik View Post
BTW, I read about a Killer B Oil Pan package but don’t need flashy hot rod parts that don’t match the factory quality. I don’t even know if that is a fix or just one of those inexpensive hot rod parts like “Blue spun aluminum oil filter caps”.
I can't speak for the Killer B oil pan, but you should do some research on the Killer B oil pickup tube as it's certainly not just a "flashy hot rod part." It is a highly regarded and well constructed replacement and resolves some serious design issues of the stock unit. For the price, you'd be crazy not to put one in a rebuilt motor.
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Old 09-23-2020, 09:53 PM   #2344
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Originally Posted by Zak6182 View Post
Yes and since they said the piece didn't come from anything in the SB, then it came from the install or something came apart. I'm going to make sure the shop goes over everything between the air filter and the head and then I'm going to go over everything as well.

Now to decide on what short block to go with...
Sorry about your engine. Going to stay with the same power levels when you build your next block?
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Old 09-24-2020, 12:28 AM   #2345
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ptkacik View Post
What is with these STi engine failures? What causes main bearing failures and why isn’t there a fix. I just sold a Porsche with 140,000 miles and I went to redline regularly without worrying about main bearings. Surely, something is wrong and can be solved. All I am hearing is how to clean the engine after a failure.

If it is oil, would a dry sump fix it? If it is clearance then wouldn’t that fix it.

My brother just told me that at 140,000 miles, his 2012 STi is on its fourth STi engine (at $7,000). Good grief, isn’t there a solution?

regards,
Peter
Would love to hear specifics on the failures. 1st one at what mileage and what was root cause? Who repaired it and how?

Issues I have and see typically is after 1st failure rebuilder ends up not cleaning or replacing items contaminated by debris and or use excess fujibond or other sealants etc leading to future failures. For the record in my sixties and have built a few since getting in the Subaru game in 2003.
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Old 09-24-2020, 01:00 AM   #2346
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ptkacik View Post
What is with these STi engine failures? What causes main bearing failures and why isn’t there a fix. I just sold a Porsche with 140,000 miles and I went to redline regularly without worrying about main bearings. Surely, something is wrong and can be solved. All I am hearing is how to clean the engine after a failure.

If it is oil, would a dry sump fix it? If it is clearance then wouldn’t that fix it.

My brother just told me that at 140,000 miles, his 2012 STi is on its fourth STi engine (at $7,000). Good grief, isn’t there a solution?

regards,
Peter
I don't believe mains were ever the issue; it was rod bearings (someone please correct me if I'm wrong...)

My understanding is that a number of model year (12-17?) engines were built with rod bearings of substandard quality that were prone to delamination, micro-welding to the journal followed by full-on spinning. It's entirely possible other MY engines also suffer a higher failure rate than other makes but I think for EJ engines those falling within the 12-17 years are worst.

Fixes include stripping it down and replacing the rod bearings (and mains while in there) with updated or aftermarket parts, with all necessary oil clearance, crush and other measurements verified before assembly.

I'm of the opinion that running a non-energy conserving oil helps as well. Specifically, something like a multi-grade synthetic diesel oil like Rotella T6. This oil has higher zinc levels and higher shear performance than "standard" oils and should, in theory, protect the bearings by improving the strength of the oil film giving a stronger barrier against metal-to-metal contact. Diesel oils' extra goodness content may damage catalytic converters so if the engine is burning oil (or it's leaking past the turbine seals etc) you might want to have that fixed...
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Old 09-24-2020, 08:53 AM   #2347
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I'll agree ^ these engines should not be using a "energy saving oil"

I could be mistaken but, if the timing is not optimal, the cylinder pressure becomes, "out of phase" so to speak, there by putting unequal pressure on the rod bearings.

That may be over simplified, but hopefully it may start a discussion...am I on the right track ?
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Old 09-24-2020, 02:35 PM   #2348
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Originally Posted by Max Capacity View Post
I'll agree ^ these engines should not be using a "energy saving oil"

I could be mistaken but, if the timing is not optimal, the cylinder pressure becomes, "out of phase" so to speak, there by putting unequal pressure on the rod bearings.

That may be over simplified, but hopefully it may start a discussion...am I on the right track ?
People better than I have sources that say the metallurgy of the bearings themselves are bad. Given that it seems like there's a window of 12-17 cars that seems to fail more often than other MYs it probably makes sense that a revision of the bearings, their materials or their manufacture was simply flawed.

One thing I've not heard mentioned (and if it has been in this thread, pls forgive) is that of bearing crush, which is a form of bearing "preload"; the bearing halves protrude a small amount proud of the rod mating surfaces. When the assembly is clamped together the bearing shells literally butt together and are compressed a small degree, pushing them tightly against the rod & cap, aiding in preventing them spinning. Maybe some of these bearings were out of spec, their crush too loose and they were thus already predisposed to being spun.
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Old 09-24-2020, 04:55 PM   #2349
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Just so you know, my ej257 was purchased from Subaru April 2012. Not sure when it was actually assembled.

It has a great tune and runs great at 140,000+ miles.

I know our engine builder on the race Honda, 1.6L with a GT3576R at 35psi (Pauter rods, Wisco pistons, Darton sleeves) was worried about detitanation and the rod bearings taking a beating. We actually cracked piston skirts.
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Old 09-24-2020, 06:02 PM   #2350
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Just so you know, my ej257 was purchased from Subaru April 2012. Not sure when it was actually assembled.

It has a great tune and runs great at 140,000+ miles.
It's possible with a DOP of April 2012 that its DOM was some time in 2011; maybe it escaped the **** bearing batches that followed...

Quote:
I know our engine builder on the race Honda, 1.6L with a GT3576R at 35psi (Pauter rods, Wisco pistons, Darton sleeves) was worried about detitanation and the rod bearings taking a beating. We actually cracked piston skirts.
Definitely heard of detonation hammering rod bearings.
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