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Old 09-09-2020, 11:58 PM   #1
Scooby South
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Impreza WRX STi What Block would you use for Solid Rebuild

Short Story. 2005 STi 131k on the OE motor.. not really on its way out or anything. but at some point I would like to ReFresh it . Nothing wild. 20 PSi on the stock Turbo will be about it. A nice Solid Stage 2..

When the time comes I want to give the car a Freshening up on the engine.
My thoughts are:
-REman 257 Block with Forged pistons.
-ACL Race Bearings utilizing the Stock Rods. Whatever the latest Craze for the Crank will be...
-Stock Heads that will be refurbished to more or less Stock ..maybe a little port/polishing/gasket matching.
-Upgraded Oil pump
-Killer Bee oil Pickup *Already on my current Block

Like I say, nothing to extravagant, Just want reliability well into the future.

Is this a decent plan..or should I just get a Decent shortblock, IE S209/RA block, IAG, Std Dealer Shortblock???

What are the opinion of the masses. Thanks for your time.
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Old 09-10-2020, 12:19 AM   #2
JSR84
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Scooby South View Post
Short Story. 2005 STi 131k on the OE motor.. not really on its way out or anything. but at some point I would like to ReFresh it . Nothing wild. 20 PSi on the stock Turbo will be about it. A nice Solid Stage 2..

When the time comes I want to give the car a Freshening up on the engine.
My thoughts are:
-REman 257 Block with Forged pistons.
-ACL Race Bearings utilizing the Stock Rods. Whatever the latest Craze for the Crank will be...
-Stock Heads that will be refurbished to more or less Stock ..maybe a little port/polishing/gasket matching.
-Upgraded Oil pump
-Killer Bee oil Pickup *Already on my current Block

Like I say, nothing to extravagant, Just want reliability well into the future.

Is this a decent plan..or should I just get a Decent shortblock, IE S209/RA block, IAG, Std Dealer Shortblock???

What are the opinion of the masses. Thanks for your time.
If you plan on staying on a stock turbo, then you don't need a forged block or anything but stock heads.
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Old 09-10-2020, 12:20 AM   #3
igoiks
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Scooby South View Post
Short Story. 2005 STi 131k on the OE motor.. not really on its way out or anything. but at some point I would like to ReFresh it . Nothing wild. 20 PSi on the stock Turbo will be about it. A nice Solid Stage 2..



When the time comes I want to give the car a Freshening up on the engine.

My thoughts are:

-REman 257 Block with Forged pistons.

-ACL Race Bearings utilizing the Stock Rods. Whatever the latest Craze for the Crank will be...

-Stock Heads that will be refurbished to more or less Stock ..maybe a little port/polishing/gasket matching.

-Upgraded Oil pump

-Killer Bee oil Pickup *Already on my current Block



Like I say, nothing to extravagant, Just want reliability well into the future.



Is this a decent plan..or should I just get a Decent shortblock, IE S209/RA block, IAG, Std Dealer Shortblock???



What are the opinion of the masses. Thanks for your time.


Leave it alone till it blows up than get new oem block and run it. If you’re around 300wheel you don’t want forged pistons. Forged pistons are more reliable at higher power levels however don’t last nearly as long as oem cast more ptw causes extra wear to rings and bore. Also oem cast is plenty strong but brittle it will support lots of power however will not tolerate knock . nowadays with gdt cyl4 kit, relocated iat post ic, good fueling system and good tune stock blocks tend to do fairly good even past 350whp.
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Old 09-10-2020, 12:58 AM   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JSR84 View Post
If you plan on staying on a stock turbo, then you don't need a forged block or anything but stock heads.
Quote:
Originally Posted by igoiks View Post
Leave it alone till it blows up than get new oem block and run it. If you’re around 300wheel you don’t want forged pistons. Forged pistons are more reliable at higher power levels however don’t last nearly as long as oem cast more ptw causes extra wear to rings and bore. Also oem cast is plenty strong but brittle it will support lots of power however will not tolerate knock . nowadays with gdt cyl4 kit, relocated iat post ic, good fueling system and good tune stock blocks tend to do fairly good even past 350whp.
Car has been Stage 2 before and Stage 3 with Different turbo putting 400 wheel down. all on the stock Block. so I can see the benefits of staying that way. My thought process was to to ensure that the block is a nonfactor in future failures.. meaning I don't want it to be the blocks fault it failed because I didn't have the correct stuff.. Thanks Guys.. what you are saying makes sense. what about putting a RA/S209 Block in as a replacement??? thoughts??? yeah the cyl4 cooling mod will be implemented, as I am thinking of doing that right now on the OE Block...

Bill
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Old 09-10-2020, 01:50 AM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Scooby South View Post
Car has been Stage 2 before and Stage 3 with Different turbo putting 400 wheel down. all on the stock Block. so I can see the benefits of staying that way. My thought process was to to ensure that the block is a nonfactor in future failures.. meaning I don't want it to be the blocks fault it failed because I didn't have the correct stuff.. Thanks Guys.. what you are saying makes sense. what about putting a RA/S209 Block in as a replacement??? thoughts??? yeah the cyl4 cooling mod will be implemented, as I am thinking of doing that right now on the OE Block...

Bill


Ra block is alright dont think its significant improvement especially in ring-land problem but not? Should be a little better right? however I would still wait till it blows up first. Another thing is you want a good tune not a guy that’s trying to make a number or bunch of torque down low a quality tune from someone who knows what they are doing goes a long way
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Old 09-10-2020, 02:39 AM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by igoiks View Post
Ra block is alright dont think its significant improvement especially in ring-land problem but not? Should be a little better right? however I would still wait till it blows up first. Another thing is you want a good tune not a guy that’s trying to make a number or bunch of torque down low a quality tune from someone who knows what they are doing goes a long way
Understand.. thats ALWAYS how I got my cars done... been in this game for over 20 years now But you are absolutely right.. thanks for looking out. Appreciate it.

Bill
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Old 09-11-2020, 01:29 AM   #7
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SS

A wise Subie owner once told me:
(Assuming you don’t want a track car motor/turbo/fuel system ($$$)

“Would you rather have a ‘Loadie’ (TX term) build your motor with Forged EVERYTHING
Or
A block inspected by factory robots

Unless you do everything yourself, choice is obvious
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Old 09-11-2020, 11:44 AM   #8
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Originally Posted by Scooby South View Post
Car has been Stage 2 before and Stage 3 with Different turbo putting 400 wheel down. all on the stock Block. so I can see the benefits of staying that way. My thought process was to to ensure that the block is a nonfactor in future failures.. meaning I don't want it to be the blocks fault it failed because I didn't have the correct stuff.. Thanks Guys.. what you are saying makes sense. what about putting a RA/S209 Block in as a replacement??? thoughts??? yeah the cyl4 cooling mod will be implemented, as I am thinking of doing that right now on the OE Block...

Bill
I would think the RA block would be a reasonable choise for your goals. Also, a solid calibration goes a long way to ensure longevity.
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Old 09-11-2020, 01:09 PM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AliBenn View Post
SS

A wise Subie owner once told me:
(Assuming you don’t want a track car motor/turbo/fuel system ($$$)

“Would you rather have a ‘Loadie’ (TX term) build your motor with Forged EVERYTHING
Or
A block inspected by factory robots

Unless you do everything yourself, choice is obvious
Wise advice

Quote:
Originally Posted by JSR84 View Post
I would think the RA block would be a reasonable choise for your goals. Also, a solid calibration goes a long way to ensure longevity.
Agreed.. and The RA block is exactly what I am thinking... and I kinda want to keep the "Factory theme" going. I truly think it will enhance the longevity of the car overall. Maybe a track day once in while.. But nothing crazy.. I ran this car Nationally in SCCA Autocross.. so I know the potential but the RA Block sounds exactly what I want.. but the idea of ensuring everything is all Spec'd out for Refresh sounds appealing also tho.. Thanks for your insight for sure. .That helps when it 'does' come time to Refresh it.

Bill
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Old 09-11-2020, 01:24 PM   #10
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FWIW, May 2012 I installed a new OEM ej257 in my Legacy GT wagon that has vf52 tuned at 21psi. That engine now has over 140,000 trouble free miles.

I did have some porting done on the stock heads so I have nice mid-range rpm pull.

I do 7000 mile oil changes after sending a sample off the Blackstone labs. I use Amsoil 5w-40 European Classic oil and their firlters.
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Old 09-11-2020, 01:44 PM   #11
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Originally Posted by Max Capacity View Post
FWIW, May 2012 I installed a new OEM ej257 in my Legacy GT wagon that has vf52 tuned at 21psi. That engine now has over 140,000 trouble free miles.

I did have some porting done on the stock heads so I have nice mid-range rpm pull.

I do 7000 mile oil changes after sending a sample off the Blackstone labs. I use Amsoil 5w-40 European Classic oil and their firlters.
What’s the whp and wtq?
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Old 09-11-2020, 01:47 PM   #12
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Might as well jump on the Legacy discussion. Original stock block running a BNR HTA 68 in the spec.B at 23 psi on e85 since 2011. 143,000 miles without issue. 355/375 on the virtual dyno.

With the right tune, the stock block will last a long time. e85 will increase the safety margin.
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Old 09-11-2020, 02:06 PM   #13
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Build it with stock pistons but open the ring gaps to something more like 0.004-0.005"/inch of bore. You'll see a bit more blow-by but won't break ringlands. Stock crank and rods should be plenty but use decent bearings (as is your plan.)
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Old 09-11-2020, 03:07 PM   #14
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Quote:
“Would you rather have a ‘Loadie’ (TX term) build your motor with Forged EVERYTHING
Or
A block inspected by factory robots
Unless it is from the refinery where they cast blocks all inspection is done visually by humans. There are way more stupid inexperienced builders at the dealers with the only knowledge of how to fallow a service manual vs builder that actually care what they built and have their own company like "Loadie" as you call them. Im not talking about letting the guy from home depot to build your block but there are shops that are WAY better then the average dealer mechanic.
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Old 09-11-2020, 03:45 PM   #15
Scooby South
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Max Capacity View Post
FWIW, May 2012 I installed a new OEM ej257 in my Legacy GT wagon that has vf52 tuned at 21psi. That engine now has over 140,000 trouble free miles.

I did have some porting done on the stock heads so I have nice mid-range rpm pull.

I do 7000 mile oil changes after sending a sample off the Blackstone labs. I use Amsoil 5w-40 European Classic oil and their firlters.
Cool.... I like easy and reliable.

Quote:
Originally Posted by bspec View Post
Might as well jump on the Legacy discussion. Original stock block running a BNR HTA 68 in the spec.B at 23 psi on e85 since 2011. 143,000 miles without issue. 355/375 on the virtual dyno.

With the right tune, the stock block will last a long time. e85 will increase the safety margin.
not a huge E85 fan for other reasons.. mainly the corrosion factor to the fuel system. but I like what you have done..

Quote:
Originally Posted by Blackfin View Post
Build it with stock pistons but open the ring gaps to something more like 0.004-0.005"/inch of bore. You'll see a bit more blow-by but won't break ringlands. Stock crank and rods should be plenty but use decent bearings (as is your plan.)
Understand completely.. one of my Good Friends thats no longer with us taught me that back when.. take a flat file and 'trim' the rings.. he used to say.. I just want this to be strong without causing all the issues that I have seen creep up with "built" Blocks.

Quote:
Originally Posted by BlackFighter View Post
Unless it is from the refinery where they cast blocks all inspection is done visually by humans. There are way more stupid inexperienced builders at the dealers with the only knowledge of how to fallow a service manual vs builder that actually care what they built and have their own company like "Loadie" as you call them. Im not talking about letting the guy from home depot to build your block but there are shops that are WAY better then the average dealer mechanic.
^^^ THIS
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Old 09-11-2020, 11:06 PM   #16
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Originally Posted by BlackFighter View Post
Unless it is from the refinery where they cast blocks all inspection is done visually by humans. There are way more stupid inexperienced builders at the dealers with the only knowledge of how to fallow a service manual vs builder that actually care what they built and have their own company like "Loadie" as you call them. Im not talking about letting the guy from home depot to build your block but there are shops that are WAY better then the average dealer mechanic.
I think you mean Foundry. Lol
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Old 09-14-2020, 10:16 AM   #17
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Quote:
I think you mean Foundry. Lol
HAHA Yes, yes i did,
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Old 09-15-2020, 11:17 AM   #18
Max Capacity
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Quote:
Originally Posted by splitoris View Post
What’s the whp and wtq?
280whp 300ftlbs on a mustang dyno

Yes, it's all in the tune. I use [email protected] he first tuned the car back in 2008 on Cobb AP V1.

When I had the machine shop rebuild the heads in 2012 they told me mine were the first set of these heads they had seen that didn't need any valves, heads had 154,000 miles on them.
They still get at least one set of these heads a week to rebuild. All the local Subaru dealers as well as most repair shops use them.
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Old 09-15-2020, 10:00 PM   #19
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Did you read the Built Motor FAQ?

Forged pistons of a flavor that your builder likes. OEM rebuild of heads. Whatever bearings your builder says. No and then.

You ain't going for 500, so there's no need for a 500 build unless you fall into some sort of deal. I got $0 rods for example, so I have built rods in my motor. All the rest of my motor is OEM new or rebuilt. No pickup tube, no blingy oil pump.

Concentrate on the outside items that get ya and/or make sense while the motor is out:

New Clutch
Turbo/injector swap perhaps
Full timing belt kit
Full gasket kit
Redo all the rubber on the engine
Redo all the bushings
Consider the getadomtune.com cooling mod

Keep the motor simple and expand on what's around the motor.
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Old 09-16-2020, 01:16 AM   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Unabomber View Post
Did you read the Built Motor FAQ?

Forged pistons of a flavor that your builder likes. OEM rebuild of heads. Whatever bearings your builder says. No and then.

You ain't going for 500, so there's no need for a 500 build unless you fall into some sort of deal. I got $0 rods for example, so I have built rods in my motor. All the rest of my motor is OEM new or rebuilt. No pickup tube, no blingy oil pump.

Concentrate on the outside items that get ya and/or make sense while the motor is out:

New Clutch
Turbo/injector swap perhaps
Full timing belt kit
Full gasket kit
Redo all the rubber on the engine
Redo all the bushings
Consider the getadomtune.com cooling mod

Keep the motor simple and expand on what's around the motor.
Smarty Pants... and YES of course I read your FAQ.. But I wanted to get an opinion of whats "hot" today ...not from 2010.. LOL

Hope you are well man..
Thanks for your input, I appreciate it.

Bill
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Old 09-16-2020, 01:53 PM   #21
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Oh yea, FWIW, the machine shop did some mild porting on my heads. They opened up the valve pocket and thinned the divider. Not sure if it made a big difference, but I do enjoy the mid-range pull.

I got that idea from this Forum back in the day. I told the machine shop, what I learned from here, he said that's all they would do to these heads, not open the port area. I told him I'd give them $300 worth of labor to spend on the head porting.
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Old 09-18-2020, 01:03 AM   #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BlackFighter View Post
Unless it is from the refinery where they cast blocks all inspection is done visually by humans. There are way more stupid inexperienced builders at the dealers with the only knowledge of how to fallow a service manual vs builder that actually care what they built and have their own company like "Loadie" as you call them. Im not talking about letting the guy from home depot to build your block but there are shops that are WAY better then the average dealer mechanic.
Settle down Beavis
2 threads crushing my opinion?
Ok fine
Your opinion is just like a Mustang ....everyone’s got one
What’s your deal philly?

A Loadie is a shop that will promise you the moon and the stars and then close the following month
No mention of incompetent dealership mechanics btw
They are out there, just subrogated a Nissan Dealership for $5300 for poor workmanship on a XD Titan engine repair

Robots inspect the block
Loadies have been known to build blocks and screw over people

Last edited by AliBenn; 09-18-2020 at 01:04 AM. Reason: Trying to give the kid a break
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Old 09-18-2020, 09:45 AM   #23
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+1 for the RA/19+ block. The alloy is different and there were some additional changes made to the casting as well. On the internals, the changes were more marginal, but at your power level, you should be well within the limits; assuming a good conservative tune.
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Old 09-18-2020, 10:29 AM   #24
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Quote:
Settle down Beavis
2 threads crushing my opinion?
Ok fine
Your opinion is just like a Mustang ....everyone’s got one
What’s your deal philly?

A Loadie is a shop that will promise you the moon and the stars and then close the following month
No mention of incompetent dealership mechanics btw
They are out there, just subrogated a Nissan Dealership for $5300 for poor workmanship on a XD Titan engine repair

Robots inspect the block
Loadies have been known to build blocks and screw over people
People get so offended over everything these days Jesus. I don't know who you are or look at names when i reply to a post. If i see a post that doesn't make sense then i will correct it so people understand how things work in this world. If i replied/corrected two of your post then they must have been wrong.

Quote:
Your opinion is just like a Mustang ....everyone’s got one
So your getting upset because others have a opinion that don't match to yours? Man the human race is going to ****. BTW i don't have a mustang or will i ever get that POS of a car. But as a human being living in a free country, i do have opinions. And what does where i live have anything to do with people sharing their opinions? Thought you Texans had thinker skin.

Last edited by BlackFighter; 09-18-2020 at 10:36 AM.
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Old 09-18-2020, 12:29 PM   #25
Scooby South
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Thanks everyone.. so far.. I like what KillerB is saying.. that makes sense.. I want my car to be reliable.. with about 300 AWHP to the ground. I know its achievable because I have done it before.. probably conservative.. as I want about 21ish lbs of boost. heads will be cleaned up with new springs.. don't want to give up the sodium filled valves and probably a mild to moderate port job/gasket matching etc. .. a higher volume oil pump to ensure the lubrication aspect is taken care of, the cyl 4 cooling mod, and a Kevlar timing belt. with OE pullys and Tensioner unless someone can convince me otherwise ... I wanted the better pistons *forged for the reliability.. but I am not convinced I 'really' need them.. for my goals.. The car is a ICON.. I recently got it back, as I was the original owner.. I let it go with 32k on the clock and it was a STRONG stg 2 car with 326/367 numbers.. I am just wanting to get it back into 'fighting' condition. I have a Grimmspeed Limited catted Downpipe going on .. *I am a HUGE fan of a Divorced Wastegate. I am trying to return the car back to Original condition as much as possible as I plan to keep this car well into future. Thanks again for your replies.. what was Hot in 2005-8 is completely different here in 2020.. so thats why I am gathering info.. Appreciate it

Bill

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