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09-12-2019, 01:08 PM | #26 | |
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The $25k BRZ does have dual injection thanks to Toyota's D-4S system so it can be done affordably. With that said, Toyota isn't going to let Subaru use it on the STI. Dual injection certainly is the best of both worlds, but is a more complex and expensive system as you said. IBR's BRZ intake manifold kit allows for easier adaptation of port injection. The downside is that you need a secondary fuel controller for the injectors since Cobb doesn't offer a pnp solution. I'm sure that better options will become available once the STI is FA powered.
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09-12-2019, 02:45 PM | #27 | |
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It's a reliability problem when it gets so bad chunks are breaking loose and one ends up sandwiched on the valve seat and gets squished into place and holds the valve open permanently once it's pounded in a few hundred times How long would that take? probably 200k plus mileage with zero service Eventually it will happen |
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09-12-2019, 04:47 PM | #28 | |
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As far as tuning potential... the FA is already pretty cheap to bring into decent power gains. Not sure where exactly is the limit before you have to drop serious $ on the FA; but I'm pretty sure it's later in the power game than the EJ. The EJ is cheap to bring into a 'Stage 2' setup but that's about it... from there on it gets really expensive. Doesn't mean the EJ is terrible. I like the powerband and character of the EJ far more than the FA. But anyways... I would assume if Subaru puts a FAXX on the STI it would have a similar powerband. My guess is for next gen Subaru will drop a FA24 DIT making ~325hp, but with lighter stock wheels to bring 0-60 closer ~4.5s. Sticking to heavy-ass wheels on the 2019 and 2020 makes their lives easier for next gen but direct injection is the way to go. No doubt. |
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09-12-2019, 09:43 PM | #29 | |
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09-12-2019, 10:52 PM | #30 |
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A lot of it depends on how the car is driven.
Guys on here who say they warm up their car for 5-10 minutes befor driving away, who take really short trips where the car doesn't get up to operating temp, and who in general don't drive the car very hard seem to have the worst issues. Guys who don't excessively warm up the car and take long enough trips where the car gets up to operating temp while taking a few pulls generally have much, much less issues with carbon buildup. I'm at 66K without any noticeable issues from carbon buildup. I will likely be getting mine done as preventative maintenance here when I can, but I haven't experienced any issues that have come up as of yet. I bought the car in September 2015. FWIW, Subaru does (or at least did) claim that the unique design of their piston-head mitigates excessive carbon buildup issues on valves, which is why there isn't (or at least wasn't, I don't keep current with dealerships) an official Subaru process for clearing the carbon buildup. From what I've seen the kit most people use for valve cleaning has been from SubieBros and is not OEM. |
09-13-2019, 12:10 AM | #31 |
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On the topic of DI......
At Volkswagen we will see cars not driven much or very hard or that use poor fuel seem to get buildup on the ports a lot more. We also sell over the counter an additive that’s recommended every 15,000 kms to combat it. When people actually drive how they are supposed to fill it with good quality fuel we can see vehicles that come in with over 60,000 miles that don’t even need the carbon clean. We will recommend it when they require an intake replacement or a fuel injector under warranty but generally it’s never that bad and there are vehicles from as far back as 2009 that I’m talking about too. Not every manufacturer has huge issues with carbon buildup on di’s, and the tech is getting better too. |
09-13-2019, 07:38 AM | #32 | |
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https://www.clublexus.com/forums/is-...up-issues.html https://www.clublexus.com/forums/is-...-build-up.html https://www.clublexus.com/how-tos/a/...mize-it-367282 Every one of these mentions the IS250 which does NOT have port injection as well as direct injection. They also mention that the IS350(Dual injection) does not have these issues... Just saying. |
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09-13-2019, 10:14 AM | #33 | |
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https://www.clublexus.com/forums/is-...esolved-4.html It affects both IS250/IS350....much more apparent on the IS250's. Also, you keep mentioning dual injection as if Subaru will implement this. Do you truly believe Subaru will put dual injection on the new STI? If not, why even mention dual injection....it won't be relevant on the new STI right? Better comparison, is the IS250. Yeah, so now what? Lol. Last edited by xX_STI_Xx; 09-13-2019 at 10:42 AM. |
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09-13-2019, 10:52 AM | #34 | |
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Port injection washes the valves and prevents carbon build-up.. otherwise you would see the same amount of carbon build-up on a car that only has port injection. I don't think that you understand that DI isn't the cause of carbon build-up.. it's the lack of port injection washing the backs of the intake valves. The BRZ is a perfect example, they don't have issues with carbon build-up with the D-4S dual injection system. Everyone in your Lexus thread mentions issues with the IS250 (DI only - no port injection). The IS350 remarks never mention carbon build-up or any evidence (pictures or service docs) to support that. They only say that the service manager mentioned throttle body and exhaust valve cleaning. We all know that carbon build-up occurs on DI only cars. Most FA20s can go at least 60k without cleaning as GlarryHoodDIT is a perfect example. It depends on your fuel quality, oil quality, driving style, etc. It's not going to be a "nasty surprise". Please go enjoy your Lexus forum and stop spreading false information and arguing with everyone here. |
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09-13-2019, 12:23 PM | #35 |
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I'm guilty of waiting impatiently for the new gen.
2016 wrx stage 2 with 91k miles (original owner)...….im definitely overdue for a trade-in and upgrade. Torn between a 19/20 STI, waiting LONGER for the new generation STI, building my wrx, or just trade in for a BMW M2 or M3. The desire for a Focus RS came and went (thanks to the head gasket issues and discontinuation) as well as an S4 or RS3 (automatic ) |
09-13-2019, 01:28 PM | #36 | |
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I don't spread false information...in fact, looking at your posts, you seem to be the one who is actively trying to falsify the true nature of DI....making folks believe it is all good and nothing else. I'm going to be the bigger person here and end this stupid argument with you, it's obvious your dead set on DI being the next best thing next to sliced bread for the next gen STI. |
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09-13-2019, 01:31 PM | #37 |
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When you refuse to answer the relevant questions being asked to yourself you're not being the better person and walking away, you're just proving to everybody that you have no idea what you're talking about.
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09-13-2019, 01:59 PM | #38 | |
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You may also want to google logical fallacies and see how many of them you have used to defend your unfounded claims. Last edited by Turpid Porpoise; 09-13-2019 at 02:07 PM. |
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09-13-2019, 02:50 PM | #39 | ||
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Fig. 1: Port Fuel Injection (PFI) Fig 2: Gasoline Direct Injection (GDI) Port fuel injection (PFI) helps wash intake valve inlets as fuel and its added detergent come in direct contact with the valves (Fig. 1). GDI sprays gasoline directly into the combustion chamber with no intake valve inlet washing (Fig. 2). SAE Paper 1999-01-1498 added that, "IVD (intake valve deposits) are unexpectedly higher in the GDI engines than the PFI as no (or very little) fuel expected to contact the valves in GDI engines." GDI sprays gasoline directly into the combustion chamber under much higher pressure (2,000 psi or more) than PFI's intake manifold spray (40-60 psi). The increased fuel pressure can result in some contaminants blowing past low-tension piston rings into the oil sump. Additionally, these byproducts are exposed to the valve during valve opening. The positive crankcase ventilation (PCV) passes oil-laden contaminants into the intake air stream where, according to SAE Paper 2002-01-2660, oily PCV crankcase vapors and droplets combine with exhaust gas re-circulation carbon particles and heat to layer over sticky intake valve coatings and bake into deposits. This accelerates the rate of carbon build-up on the intake valve inlets without port fuel injection to rinse/clean the deposits. GDI deposits often require preventive maintenance to prevent sputter, misfire, hesitation and loss of volumetric efficiency and power. Other recent SAE papers on GDI & dual injection (DI & PFI) https://www.sae.org/publications/tec.../2016-01-2252/ https://www.sae.org/publications/tec.../2018-01-1735/ https://www.sae.org/publications/tec.../2019-01-0999/ Quote:
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09-13-2019, 02:50 PM | #40 |
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I'm well aware that you don't own a lexus anymore.. yet you continue to provide irrelevant links to lexus forums.. We will gladly have an educated conversation with you if you can provide any evidence to support your seemingly unfounded claims.
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09-13-2019, 03:15 PM | #41 |
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The question is not whether DI is the be all end all way of the futures......
The question is, will Subaru be likely to use it on the next gens. And the answer is that likely that they will. DI is not perfect. I guess that's understood. But *I think* Subaru is more than willing to play the numbers game over the potential downfalls of DI. So far, there's been VERY few (if any) serious widespread complaints with the FA and problems related to DI in the WRX. Sure, tuners may find it "difficult to tune", people may complain they will lose x hp over certain miles due to deposits.... people may complain the possibility exists they will have to do a valve cleaning at some point...... But will that deter Subaru? will it affect sales? who knows. Likely not. On the other hand... DI will give them: improved fuel economy, being able to use an existing engine FA24 or FA20+ while being able to increase the output in the STI, etc. certainly will. Will they go DIT? Nobody knows yet. So this is all... discussion. For all we know Subaru could well troll the universe and just slap equal length headers on the EJ and tune it to 320 |
09-13-2019, 05:25 PM | #42 |
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dealers are called stealerships for a reason...they create problems so you can go back to them for service. they dont really make money off cars sold.
on another note...the new gen STI probably will come with some form of DIT...lets hope Subaru builds a good engine |
09-13-2019, 05:53 PM | #43 |
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It all depends on the reasoning for buying a new car. Don't go into debt just to have the newest thing. I see too many people buy them and trade them in upside down on the loan. Personally, version 2-5 STi's will be available for import in the coming years, and I plan to continue importing instead of buying a new STi, unless Subaru actually increases the power and puts it on a diet.
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09-13-2019, 08:57 PM | #44 |
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I'll probably stick with my blobeye unless the new sti is unbelievably better than the current gen. Hopefully they can shed some weight as that's always beneficial.
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09-14-2019, 11:27 PM | #45 |
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Increasing safety regulations and tech crap will negate weight savings. Shaving weight costs money. Lightweight materials cost more money.
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09-20-2019, 05:56 PM | #46 |
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I must be losing my mind, and falsifying information right?....because a reputable shop (TheShopCT) is performing this service on Subbie's with FA motors that have DI....lol.
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09-20-2019, 06:17 PM | #47 |
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Are you purposefully trying to come off as a moron or does it just come naturally?
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09-20-2019, 06:17 PM | #48 |
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The post doesn't even state what type of engine it is in the picture.. Where did anyone in this thread say that the WRX's FA20DIT wasn't susceptible to carbon build-up? Everyone has agreed on that for years and acknowledges that it requires maintenance.. How many miles were on that car? What type of engine was it? Did the carbon build-up make it "unreliable"? Notice the tops of the valve heads themselves are actually pretty clean. Here are some examples of severe carbon build-up that will impact idle, fuel economy, etc. So yeah.. the valves that "TheShopCT" posted actually aren't that bad. |
09-20-2019, 11:28 PM | #49 |
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09-20-2019, 11:30 PM | #50 | |
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