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Old 10-06-2009, 12:25 PM   #51
Phatron
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NSFW View Post
When you wrote "got it" earlier I thought you had it... got it back again yet?
that was pre bud light and post bud light.

So i got it back now.

One big suggestion i would make if anyone wants to try this is just to fab up your own and actually put the flapper on the turbine housing......dont make another flange to sandwich in there. If you try to just put this piece in there you're gonna have fitment issues and gonna have to chop ur up pipe......
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Old 10-06-2009, 01:24 PM   #52
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Phatron View Post
that was pre bud light and post bud light.

So i got it back now.

One big suggestion i would make if anyone wants to try this is just to fab up your own and actually put the flapper on the turbine housing......dont make another flange to sandwich in there. If you try to just put this piece in there you're gonna have fitment issues and gonna have to chop ur up pipe......
are you saying weld it to turbo housing ? I was thinking couldn't I just use the flapper as my t4 flange on the uppipe , then I wouldn't have a t4 flange gasket then flapper then gasket thn turbo , it would just be uppipe welded straight to the flapper then a gasket then turbo....

Yeah phatron is right if someone thinks this will just fit bolt right in on there Perrin kit or something is going to have fitment issues for sure....
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Old 10-06-2009, 01:45 PM   #53
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no. im saying install the flapper right into the turbine housing.

if you try and cut the flange off ur up pipe and weld this on, there is a good chance the flanges wont line up correctly anymore.

i would just have your own fabbed up and permanently installed into the flange on the turbine housing.
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Old 10-06-2009, 01:53 PM   #54
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Oh no I am fabbing a complete new setup, I think the bw has 4 1/4 in downpipe + my gt30 is a t3 flange I am switching to t4...
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Old 10-06-2009, 04:15 PM   #55
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I e-mailed Geoff at FR about this in Feb of this year, his response:

"i think its a horrendous idea and the worst attempt at a vnt/vtg housing ive seen."
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Old 10-06-2009, 05:30 PM   #56
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^^^if he doesn't sell it; he often doesn't like it....Just saying


tdagen-sounds awesome
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Old 10-06-2009, 06:28 PM   #57
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LittleBlueGT View Post
I e-mailed Geoff at FR about this in Feb of this year, his response:

"i think its a horrendous idea and the worst attempt at a vnt/vtg housing ive seen."

Yeah they make quite a bit of off ts kits, I would say the same if I were FR hahaha
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Old 10-06-2009, 06:37 PM   #58
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I seriously hope one of the people in this thread puts this flapper on a single exit exhaust manifold/single scroll turbo combo. Two words: Epic Fail.

Of course, it will probably go the way of all the 400-450+ on stock motor crowd. "yay its done!!! Stock motor! Tuner XYZ is the best! PICS!!" *3 months later*
"bump"
"bump"
"bump"
"5 month bump, any updates?"
"bump, hows the motor running?"
"where'd he go??"

Last edited by Leggy_09; 10-06-2009 at 06:51 PM.
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Old 10-06-2009, 06:38 PM   #59
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i'll do it. all i need is a turbo, up pipe, down pipe, and intake \

and this damn piece
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Old 10-06-2009, 06:39 PM   #60
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Up for a friendly bet on it?
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Old 10-06-2009, 06:48 PM   #61
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lol. well, im broke so unless someone loans me all those parts it aint gonna happen
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Old 10-06-2009, 06:50 PM   #62
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pft bogus safety net. you suck I want to find someone who will waste real money here.
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Old 10-06-2009, 08:22 PM   #63
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pft bogus safety net. you suck I want to find someone who will waste real money here.
No lets find someone with a Ts and lets see some suby results...
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Old 10-06-2009, 10:36 PM   #64
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It may work with a TS turbo. The evidence seems to indicate that, and Ive said I think it would work for a subaru too for above listed reasons....

Where the confusion starts is thinking it would work on a single scroll turbo.
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Old 11-15-2009, 08:33 AM   #65
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I might try this with a TS turbo on my new build. I am thinking it would be a good idea to use a larger diameter uppipe. tho i might just purchase a ts manifold kit minus turbo if one is available
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Old 11-15-2009, 11:20 AM   #66
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What the subaru world needs is a true VGT like the aerodyne aerocharger .no lagg at all . just smooth power from throttle tip in to red line . everyone in the subaru community should PM aerodyne all at once .
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Old 11-16-2009, 03:57 AM   #67
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A few hondas are running Variable vane turboes right now, and liking it. Not sure of the durability.
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Old 11-16-2009, 07:41 PM   #68
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TDagen View Post
Yeah they make quite a bit of off ts kits, I would say the same if I were FR hahaha

Quote:
Originally Posted by DemiSlayer View Post
I might try this with a TS turbo on my new build. I am thinking it would be a good idea to use a larger diameter uppipe. tho i might just purchase a ts manifold kit minus turbo if one is available
the biggest advantage of true twinscroll turbos is that they virtually eliminate the negative interactions between interfering cylinders. Instead of the combustion energy having a negative impact on the interefering cylinders, the energy is directed at the turbine wheel, for maximum turbine efficiency.

i have posted up some SAE documents that describe this in more detail, id be happy to repost them if anyone is interested

Quote:
Originally Posted by eatus ravenous View Post
What the subaru world needs is a true VGT like the aerodyne aerocharger .no lagg at all . just smooth power from throttle tip in to red line . everyone in the subaru community should PM aerodyne all at once .
VGT WORKS.... but IMHO the only way to really do this on a subie will cost about 7-8k, before the header and fabrication... of course you wont need WGs, but you will need a PWM control

Quote:
Originally Posted by Merp View Post
I'm curious to see how it compares to a true twinscroll setup. Both supra graph looks like a 300-325 rpm shift in spool.. I'd expect that much out of a good TS setup, with more midrange & top end power to boot.
^^^ +1
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Old 11-16-2009, 08:12 PM   #69
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Full-Race Geoff View Post
the biggest advantage of true twinscroll turbos is that they virtually eliminate the negative interactions between interfering cylinders. Instead of the combustion energy having a negative impact on the interefering cylinders, the energy is directed at the turbine wheel, for maximum turbine efficiency.
Yes I am going to go twin scroll, I now realize this helper valve probably is garbage and overpriced , may work a little but not to be compared to twin scroll....
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Old 11-17-2009, 02:21 AM   #70
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Geoff, I don't think anyone doubts the theoretical advantages of twin-scroll turbos over single-scroll.

What's missing is a demonstration of how that theoretical advantage plays out in practice. I'd love to see someone do an apples-to-apples comparison of a GT35 single-scroll and GT-35 twin-scroll, with an MBC to minimize the boost timing variable, and with logs showing comparable timing to eliminate that variable.

Until something like that shows up, you are going to be repeating that offer of links to SAE articles and whatnot, and still nobody is going to have any idea of whether or not that translates into real-world results.

There is no evidence that a twin-scroll GT35 will work better than this setup.
None.
(There is also no evidence that it won't, of course... )
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Old 11-17-2009, 11:42 AM   #71
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im simply offering to help educate the people who dont understand the basics. Just becuase you do, there are 1000+ others that dont. If you think twinscroll doesnt work in real world, go look at what BMW just spent a small fortune on -- they completely redesigned their twin turbo I6 3.5L to be a single twinscroll turbo (which had significant gains, to say the least), and then they changed their V8 to flow *backwards* in order to run it as a twin-twinscroll setup.

i know more about these twinscroll setups than most anybody else on this forum, and most any of the other forums... i can totally appreciate proper testing procedures, but you gotta be kidding me if you expect me to break it all down to only get harassed by the self proclaimed experts whove never done a valid test themselves.

Weve spent the better part of the last 2 years working to cut our prices in half, and that was not easy to do. Would you rather see our prices drop, or some test that i post up so you guys can flame me?
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Old 11-17-2009, 12:17 PM   #72
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If you did an honest test I am sure people would end up buy more of your products.... But what I am really interested in is the Borg Warner vs garretts on a Suby, I have been thinking about going with an 88-75 but I don't want to sacrifice a ton of spool up... I know the Borg warners flow more than comparable sized garretts buy would the extra flow of the 83-75 be enough to fuffil my need for extreme acceleration.... I am aiming at this being my 4th and last turbo swap....got any good info??
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Old 11-17-2009, 01:33 PM   #73
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Quote:
If you think twinscroll doesnt work in real world, go look at what BMW just spent a small fortune on...
Who said twin scroll doesn't work in the real world? It's like you missed the first sentence of that post... "Geoff, I don't think anyone doubts the theoretical advantages of twin-scroll turbos over single-scroll."

Quote:
i know more about these twinscroll setups than most anybody else on this forum, and most any of the other forums... i can totally appreciate proper testing procedures, but you gotta be kidding me if you expect me to break it all down to only get harassed by the self proclaimed experts whove never done a valid test themselves.

Would you rather see our prices drop, or some test that i post up so you guys can flame me?
I have no doubt that you know more about this than anyone else here. But you're not willing to share the important part. When all this theory is put into practice on a Subaru, what are the gains?

I'd rather see a test, so that I can make an informed decision about which way to go for my next round of upgrades. Maybe it's just me.
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Old 11-17-2009, 01:40 PM   #74
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Full-Race Geoff View Post
This test is a little OT becuase it was done on an evo, but we will be performing the identical test on an STI in the next 2-3 weeks.
that was back in 11/21/08, to this day there has not been a test on a suby
http://forums.nasioc.com/forums/show...5#post24553685

NASIOC is waiting............
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Old 11-17-2009, 02:27 PM   #75
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Lol if there is no test data put up I'll be displaying some this spring I just don't know if it will be Borg Warner 83-75 or 88-75, twin scroll of course , and on E 85 so that should help spool a tad....don't worry I"ll be logging and airboy dynoing like no other lol
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