Welcome to the North American Subaru Impreza Owners Club Thursday March 28, 2024
Home Forums Images WikiNASIOC Products Store Modifications Upgrade Garage
NASIOC
Go Back   NASIOC > NASIOC Technical > Factory 2.5L Turbo Powertrain (EJ Series Factory 2.5L Turbo)

Welcome to NASIOC - The world's largest online community for Subaru enthusiasts!
Welcome to the NASIOC.com Subaru forum.

You are currently viewing our forum as a guest, which gives you limited access to view most discussions and access our other features. By joining our community, free of charge, you will have access to post topics, communicate privately with other members (PM), respond to polls, upload content and access many other special features. Registration is free, fast and simple, so please join our community today!

If you have any problems with the registration process or your account login, please contact us.







* As an Amazon Associate I earn from qualifying purchases. 
* Registered users of the site do not see these ads. 
Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 02-15-2014, 06:03 PM   #1
ToyotaMike
Scooby Newbie
 
Member#: 286007
Join Date: Jun 2011
Chapter/Region: Tri-State
Location: Long Island NY
Vehicle:
1993 Skyline GTST
Bayside blue

Default E85 Users, check in, pro long use? your set up?

I am starting this thread with hopes that is doesnt turn into a "its gotta be your tune" type of thread. I am simply looking for information regarding your vehicles set up IF you have been running E85 for an extended period of time.I will explain the reasoning in a moment. If you would please chime in with the follow:

How long have you been on e85?

Target AFR/Boost?

How often do you change your oil?

What oil are you using?

Do you test your ethanol every fill up? or do you have a zeitronics ethanol reader in the car?

stock or built motor? sleeves or no sleeves?

have you done a compression or leak down test recently? or checked cylinders with a scope?

Do you have a wideband?

Reason behind all of this:

I have an 07 WRX, it was making 408/401 on a mustang dyno at 21 PSI with a MAPerfromance EF2 turbo, ETS TMIC, external gate, ID1000s etc. My motor was stock and obviously pushing its limits for sure at that power. Back in December I had the car out and noticed when I got on it the oil pressure dropped...I milked it home and checked the oil and was over 3qts low. Now, I am usually one to check my oil frequently, however in the near 30k that I have had the car it has never burned more then 1/4 in the 2k miles. I always changed the oil with rotella t6 5w-40 every 1500-2000 miles. I decided to do a leak down test and results revealed a 40-45% leak down in cylinder 1. I assumed for sure that a cast piston had lost a ring land at this power point.

I finally tore this motor out of the car this week, and tore it down. I was shocked to find that I did not have a broken piston, broken rings or any cylinder damage. The cylinders however have NO cross hatches left AT ALL. There is no scoring, the cylinders are just bare. There is no ridge at top of cylinders and the pistons came right out. None of the rings are frozen or damage. The motor has 69K on it. I have probably been on E85 for 15-20K and would switch during winter months.

I have been reading a little bit more over the past day or 2 now and I have been reading how flex fuel cars from the factory come with coated pistons and cylinder walls to combat the ethanol. Some also say, that the fact that there is 30% more fuel being spray in that it washes the cylinders down. I have also read about the fuel being contaminated with moisture could create formic acid upon start ups/warm ups.

Im just trying to get some thoughts or opinions on this as it just doesnt make sense to me. All 4 cylinders look the same, yet only number 1 was leaking down (rest were all 3-5% if I remember correctly). MY AFR was always rock solid, I always pay close attention to my gauges.

When I worked at Toyota as a tech, the MR2s and corollas would sometime come with 40-60K on them, they would be drinking oil, 4 quarts in less then a 1000 miles. When we would pull the head there would be no cross hatches left in cylinders. Toyota told us they were just bad blocks or some BS... no real reason and cars were all stock and properly maintained.

enough of killing an internet forest...

Here a few pics just for reference











* Registered users of the site do not see these ads.

Last edited by ToyotaMike; 02-15-2014 at 06:10 PM.
ToyotaMike is offline   Reply With Quote
Sponsored Links
* Registered users of the site do not see these ads.
Old 02-15-2014, 08:15 PM   #2
Asharus
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 276300
Join Date: Mar 2011
Vehicle:
2015 Ford Mustang GT
Oxford White

Default

subscribed. i also wanted to get more info on the stuff you mentioned before i get tuned for E85 this summer. i will be getting it at PAS too. i drive 500 miles a week and already have almost 70k on my engine. it doesnt burn oil now, and i would like to keep it that way. i plan on running E85 from memorial day to labor day, like most folks do here.

Last edited by Asharus; 02-15-2014 at 08:24 PM.
Asharus is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-15-2014, 08:23 PM   #3
Andrewxxcarlson
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 316415
Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: Elk Grove, CA
Vehicle:
2006 WRX
WRB

Default

Subscribed. Will respond when I get done lettin loose...
Andrewxxcarlson is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-15-2014, 09:17 PM   #4
ToyotaMike
Scooby Newbie
 
Member#: 286007
Join Date: Jun 2011
Chapter/Region: Tri-State
Location: Long Island NY
Vehicle:
1993 Skyline GTST
Bayside blue

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Asharus View Post
subscribed. i also wanted to get more info on the stuff you mentioned before i get tuned for E85 this summer. i will be getting it at PAS too. i drive 500 miles a week and already have almost 70k on my engine. it doesnt burn oil now, and i would like to keep it that way. i plan on running E85 from memorial day to labor day, like most folks do here.
PAS is great, and Dave has tuned probably 100s of cars on E85, in no way shape or form do I think it's the tune. The tunes have always been rock solid with perfect AFR. I don't know what to think at this point...if it was that rich you would see scoring... There is NONE at all. I just don't want to put my forged goodies in and in 30k it's doing the same because of the possibility it's fuel related. If rather stay on pump and have a slow as car

Quote:
Originally Posted by Andrewxxcarlson View Post
Subscribed. Will respond when I get done lettin loose...
I am hoping people will chime in, I know there a lot of people who DD on e85 such as I do...or did...
ToyotaMike is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-15-2014, 09:41 PM   #5
Asharus
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 276300
Join Date: Mar 2011
Vehicle:
2015 Ford Mustang GT
Oxford White

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by ToyotaMike View Post
PAS is great, and Dave has tuned probably 100s of cars on E85, in no way shape or form do I think it's the tune. The tunes have always been rock solid with perfect AFR. I don't know what to think at this point...if it was that rich you would see scoring... There is NONE at all. I just don't want to put my forged goodies in and in 30k it's doing the same because of the possibility it's fuel related. If rather stay on pump and have a slow as car



I am hoping people will chime in, I know there a lot of people who DD on e85 such as I do...or did...
agreed. i dont think there's enough data on DD E85 cars out there yet, especially the type of driving i do at 2k miles a month.
Asharus is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-15-2014, 10:05 PM   #6
ToyotaMike
Scooby Newbie
 
Member#: 286007
Join Date: Jun 2011
Chapter/Region: Tri-State
Location: Long Island NY
Vehicle:
1993 Skyline GTST
Bayside blue

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Asharus View Post
agreed. i dont think there's enough data on DD E85 cars out there yet, especially the type of driving i do at 2k miles a month.
there is a dude from LISC , Joe is his name if im not mistaken, he has I think an 08-09 wrx tuned on E and if im not mistaken has put like 70k on car! That is the only one I know with high mileage/DD use and I think he even has a winter blend tune as well
ToyotaMike is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-15-2014, 10:10 PM   #7
Asharus
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 276300
Join Date: Mar 2011
Vehicle:
2015 Ford Mustang GT
Oxford White

Default

cool im on there too and did a quick search. didnt turn up anything.
Asharus is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-15-2014, 11:10 PM   #8
ToyotaMike
Scooby Newbie
 
Member#: 286007
Join Date: Jun 2011
Chapter/Region: Tri-State
Location: Long Island NY
Vehicle:
1993 Skyline GTST
Bayside blue

Default

I found his user name, Prefontaine84, although he doesn't have anything posted. I remember Adam at PAS mentioning his car and the amount of miles on E was quite a bit if I am remembering correctly.
ToyotaMike is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-15-2014, 11:40 PM   #9
Boostedbob
Scooby Newbie
 
Member#: 336241
Join Date: Oct 2012
Chapter/Region: MWSOC
Location: Colorado, New Mexico
Vehicle:
08 Sti
OPB

Default

Hi I have been on e85 for the last year and a half, with about two months on piss gas.

My afr's for E85 are 11.7 on id1000's
My afrs for 91 are 10.9
I currently have 21k miles on my built block
Cp pistons eagle rods acl bearings.
I'm also running a innovate lc-1 wideband

I usually run rotella t6 5-40 but switched to castrol gtx full synthetic(don't like it)

Car consumes no oil, or if it does it does show. I was running a OG Red and now am on a hta green.

Car is running very strong. No leak down or compression test has been done yet.
Boostedbob is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-16-2014, 12:14 AM   #10
1MOFOSTI
Scooby Newbie
 
Member#: 375748
Join Date: Dec 2013
Location: 27PSI
Vehicle:
04 STi

Default

How long have you been on e85? - 2 years

Target AFR/Boost? 11.5 / 27PSI

How often do you change your oil? Every 4 -5000 miles

What oil are you using? 10w60 Castrol edge

Do you test your ethanol every fill up? or do you have a zeitronics ethanol reader in the car? No ,just use the same Gas station and pump each time.

stock or built motor? sleeves or no sleeves? OEM Built motor EJ207 Forged internals

have you done a compression or leak down test recently? or checked cylinders with a scope? Nope only ringland test and it passed.

Do you have a wideband? Yes AEM

Car is strong and ready for next Dyno session. Hope this helps

-1MOFO
1MOFOSTI is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-16-2014, 08:03 AM   #11
ToyotaMike
Scooby Newbie
 
Member#: 286007
Join Date: Jun 2011
Chapter/Region: Tri-State
Location: Long Island NY
Vehicle:
1993 Skyline GTST
Bayside blue

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Boostedbob View Post
Hi I have been on e85 for the last year and a half, with about two months on piss gas.

My afr's for E85 are 11.7 on id1000's
My afrs for 91 are 10.9
I currently have 21k miles on my built block
Cp pistons eagle rods acl bearings.
I'm also running a innovate lc-1 wideband

I usually run rotella t6 5-40 but switched to castrol gtx full synthetic(don't like it)

Car consumes no oil, or if it does it does show. I was running a OG Red and now am on a hta green.

Car is running very strong. No leak down or compression test has been done yet.
Thank you sir, are you testing the fuel ? Or just sticking to same gas station ?


Quote:
Originally Posted by 1MOFOSTI View Post
How long have you been on e85? - 2 years

Target AFR/Boost? 11.5 / 27PSI

How often do you change your oil? Every 4 -5000 miles

What oil are you using? 10w60 Castrol edge

Do you test your ethanol every fill up? or do you have a zeitronics ethanol reader in the car? No ,just use the same Gas station and pump each time.

stock or built motor? sleeves or no sleeves? OEM Built motor EJ207 Forged internals

have you done a compression or leak down test recently? or checked cylinders with a scope? Nope only ringland test and it passed.

Do you have a wideband? Yes AEM

Car is strong and ready for next Dyno session. Hope this helps

-1MOFO
By "ring land test" do you mean pulling oil cap off while its warmed up/running ?

Both you guys have been running fuel roughly same amount of time that I have been, I would be interested to see what the cylinders look like with a scope.

Weird thing with my car is too, it never through the CEL/MIL and it didn't feel down on power other then the fact that I had switch back to pump gas and was only at 16 psi for winter
ToyotaMike is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-16-2014, 02:47 PM   #12
BigRob74
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 305107
Join Date: Dec 2011
Chapter/Region: Tri-State
Location: Long Island, NY
Vehicle:
2016 GT 5.OHH
DIB

Default

im tuned by dave @ pas as well. i only run e85 from june thru sept. i plan on getting the zeixtronics ethanol reader. im going back in june to get retuned once i put headers on in the spring. sub'd.. i run t6 also, every 3k
BigRob74 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-16-2014, 02:50 PM   #13
Asharus
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 276300
Join Date: Mar 2011
Vehicle:
2015 Ford Mustang GT
Oxford White

Default

what gauges do you guys run. i currently run a wideband and boost, but i'd like to run an oil pressure gauge too. trouble is i cant figure out where to put it. i have an SMY gauge cluster and have the wideband on the right, boost on the left.

im thinking about getting the zeitronix e85 gauge too before getting tuned for e85.
Asharus is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-16-2014, 03:11 PM   #14
ALOKIN
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 348177
Join Date: Feb 2013
Chapter/Region: TXIC
Location: TX
Vehicle:
2002 Bugeye
Haltech GTX3584RS

Default

Been DD on upgraded turbo and E85 for 6 months now ( I drive 2K+ miles a month).

I have oil pressure gauge, wideband, and Zietronics ECA, (and factory boost).

I get ethanol from two stations usually. One is always closer to E90 so I try to do all of my fill ups there.

RT6 is my oil and change every ~4K miles, ZERO consumption.

Love E85.
ALOKIN is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-16-2014, 03:36 PM   #15
BigRob74
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 305107
Join Date: Dec 2011
Chapter/Region: Tri-State
Location: Long Island, NY
Vehicle:
2016 GT 5.OHH
DIB

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Asharus View Post
what gauges do you guys run. i currently run a wideband and boost, but i'd like to run an oil pressure gauge too. trouble is i cant figure out where to put it. i have an SMY gauge cluster and have the wideband on the right, boost on the left.

im thinking about getting the zeitronix e85 gauge too before getting tuned for e85.
id do oil temp over oil pressure. you can get that vent pod, i cant think of who makes it though
BigRob74 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-16-2014, 04:05 PM   #16
Cefaln452
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 255736
Join Date: Aug 2010
Chapter/Region: MWSOC
Location: Cincinnati
Vehicle:
2004 STi
JavaBlackPearl

Default

over two years on corn. no problems. just run a tank of dino through it every 8-10 months
Cefaln452 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-16-2014, 04:28 PM   #17
ToyotaMike
Scooby Newbie
 
Member#: 286007
Join Date: Jun 2011
Chapter/Region: Tri-State
Location: Long Island NY
Vehicle:
1993 Skyline GTST
Bayside blue

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by BigRob74 View Post
im tuned by dave @ pas as well. i only run e85 from june thru sept. i plan on getting the zeixtronics ethanol reader. im going back in june to get retuned once i put headers on in the spring. sub'd.. i run t6 also, every 3k
I have the Zeitronics gauge in my car, I typically swap over to the corn at that time too.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ALOKIN View Post
Been DD on upgraded turbo and E85 for 6 months now ( I drive 2K+ miles a month).

I have oil pressure gauge, wideband, and Zietronics ECA, (and factory boost).

I get ethanol from two stations usually. One is always closer to E90 so I try to do all of my fill ups there.

RT6 is my oil and change every ~4K miles, ZERO consumption.

Love E85.
I love the E85 as well, just not if its the culprit behind my motor problems


Quote:
Originally Posted by Cefaln452 View Post
over two years on corn. no problems. just run a tank of dino through it every 8-10 months
Quote:
Originally Posted by Asharus View Post
what gauges do you guys run. i currently run a wideband and boost, but i'd like to run an oil pressure gauge too. trouble is i cant figure out where to put it. i have an SMY gauge cluster and have the wideband on the right, boost on the left.

im thinking about getting the zeitronix e85 gauge too before getting tuned for e85.

I have the Zeitronix gauge because I got tired of screwing around with the test tube. I have the AEM wide band, Defi Oil and EGT gauge all in a Lotek pillar pod and I have Omori boost gauge on column.

I feel like the majority of people have been running the ethanol for the same time period that I have. I wish I could see into the future and see where you guys are at in say another year/12 or 15K miles.

I am just lost as to what would have caused this...I would have rather found something obvious.

I just dont want to rebuild, better, stronger etc and be in the same boat again in 2-3 years/30k
ToyotaMike is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-16-2014, 05:53 PM   #18
Cefaln452
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 255736
Join Date: Aug 2010
Chapter/Region: MWSOC
Location: Cincinnati
Vehicle:
2004 STi
JavaBlackPearl

Default

its all in the tune.


and thats lack of lube.

Last edited by Cefaln452; 02-17-2014 at 08:58 PM.
Cefaln452 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-16-2014, 06:57 PM   #19
Boostedbob
Scooby Newbie
 
Member#: 336241
Join Date: Oct 2012
Chapter/Region: MWSOC
Location: Colorado, New Mexico
Vehicle:
08 Sti
OPB

Default

Hey Toyota, no I'm not testing fuel, just the same station, however one of my buddies do test the fuel at the same station and is consistent at e85.

Edit: If it helps I use the E85 at Kum n Go.

My gauges are Autometer(I know but I needed something) and innovate.

I didn't realize that I didn't post how often I change my oil, usually its every 3k miles unless I'm going back n forth to Colorado and New Mexico, then the interval is longer because I have no place to change the oil. No more then 5k miles though.

Last edited by Boostedbob; 02-16-2014 at 07:04 PM.
Boostedbob is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-16-2014, 07:08 PM   #20
Never Summer
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 349361
Join Date: Mar 2013
Chapter/Region: Tri-State
Location: Long Island, NY
Vehicle:
2013 STi
SWP

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Boostedbob View Post
Hey Toyota, no I'm not testing fuel, just the same station, however one of my buddies do test the fuel at the same station and is consistent at e85. Edit: If it helps I use the E85 at Kum n Go. My gauges are Autometer(I know but I needed something) and innovate. I didn't realize that I didn't post how often I change my oil, usually its every 3k miles unless I'm going back n forth to Colorado and New Mexico, then the interval is longer because I have no place to change the oil. No more then 5k miles though.
Testing ethanol is important. The % changes so much due to the non regulations on it. Using the same station doesn't mean the % is consistent. But I did the same before I got my zeintronix
Never Summer is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-16-2014, 07:35 PM   #21
some dude
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 100300
Join Date: Nov 2005
Chapter/Region: MWSOC
Location: MIC|-|IG/\N
Vehicle:
06 WRX
CGM

Default

With the leak down test on cyl 1, where was it leaking from? You expected to see broken rings, so the gas was leaking out the oil filler neck?
some dude is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-16-2014, 07:36 PM   #22
ToyotaMike
Scooby Newbie
 
Member#: 286007
Join Date: Jun 2011
Chapter/Region: Tri-State
Location: Long Island NY
Vehicle:
1993 Skyline GTST
Bayside blue

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Cefaln452 View Post
its all in the tune.
There has to be that one guy...

IF it was that rich it woulda washed cylinders down and created scoring....obviously you didn't read what I wrote so find another thread to troll or provide some of the info I requested otherwise GTFO


Quote:
Originally Posted by Boostedbob View Post
Hey Toyota, no I'm not testing fuel, just the same station, however one of my buddies do test the fuel at the same station and is consistent at e85.

Edit: If it helps I use the E85 at Kum n Go.

My gauges are Autometer(I know but I needed something) and innovate.

I didn't realize that I didn't post how often I change my oil, usually its every 3k miles unless I'm going back n forth to Colorado and New Mexico, then the interval is longer because I have no place to change the oil. No more then 5k miles though.
Thank you for the additional info!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Never Summer View Post
Testing ethanol is important. The % changes so much due to the non regulations on it. Using the same station doesn't mean the % is consistent. But I did the same before I got my zeintronix
Agreed, I always made sure to run a map that would be appropriate with the ethanol grade as well.
ToyotaMike is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-16-2014, 07:37 PM   #23
ToyotaMike
Scooby Newbie
 
Member#: 286007
Join Date: Jun 2011
Chapter/Region: Tri-State
Location: Long Island NY
Vehicle:
1993 Skyline GTST
Bayside blue

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by some dude View Post
With the leak down test on cyl 1, where was it leaking from? You expected to see broken rings, so the gas was leaking out the oil filler neck?
Correct, leaking out of oil cap only. You could literally make a difference in the sound covering your hand over cap, it was leaking pretty good.
ToyotaMike is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-16-2014, 07:53 PM   #24
ToyotaMike
Scooby Newbie
 
Member#: 286007
Join Date: Jun 2011
Chapter/Region: Tri-State
Location: Long Island NY
Vehicle:
1993 Skyline GTST
Bayside blue

Default

Do these pistons sometimes "fracture" were you may not be able to see the crack by eye ?
ToyotaMike is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-16-2014, 07:57 PM   #25
BigRob74
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 305107
Join Date: Dec 2011
Chapter/Region: Tri-State
Location: Long Island, NY
Vehicle:
2016 GT 5.OHH
DIB

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by ToyotaMike View Post


Agreed, I always made sure to run a map that would be appropriate with the ethanol grade as well.
did dave give you an e70 map as well? i tested the one station by me once and rolled the dice for the entire summer at that station, needless to say im plan on the ziextronics unit this spring
BigRob74 is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump

All times are GMT -4. The time now is 09:47 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.7.0
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Powered by Searchlight © 2024 Axivo Inc.
Copyright ©1999 - 2019, North American Subaru Impreza Owners Club, Inc.

As an Amazon Associate I earn from qualifying purchases.

When you click on links to various merchants on this site and make a purchase, this can result in this site earning a commission
Affiliate programs and affiliations include, but are not limited to, the eBay Partner Network.