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Old 11-23-2021, 07:36 PM   #351
Snow Drift
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The early models represented the technology at the time. They paved the way for what you're driving.

EV's can be whatever the owner of the car wants them to be, and the consumer has options to purchase longer range cars if they want and can afford them. Guaranteed that they kept the range where they did to limit cost and attract more buyers. Give it 400 miles and the price goes up to tesla range. I'm sure Toyota and Subaru are trying to hit a lower price point.
I will raise you my theory... keep it low range to not impact the rest of the line.

I am still waiting to see if this is an appliance only sold in ZEV states (like my Crosstrek).
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Old 11-23-2021, 08:57 PM   #352
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I will raise you my theory... keep it low range to not impact the rest of the line.

I am still waiting to see if this is an appliance only sold in ZEV states (like my Crosstrek).
62kWh pack Leaf starts at 32,400 (FWD only)
65kWh pack Bolt EUV starts at 33,000 (FWD only, but a more direct comparison)
71.4/72.8kWh pack BZ4X in FWD guise should land in that realm to start (low-mid 30's) AWD BZ4X/Solterra will obviously be more, how much more is yet to be known, but maybe high 30's for a base trim AWD, maybe closer to 40, but they are putting smaller motors in the AWD models so the total power output doesn't increase much, you just get AWD and the tiny bump in power means performance will be roughly the same when added weight is considered ([email protected] AWD at 2x80kW-160kW total)

For comparison, the Rav4 starts @ 26,350 for a FWD LE, but the price creeps up real quick due to all the tiers & drivetrain configurations. maybe there will be a ~10k spread "like for like" ICE vs. EV.
Forester is 25,200 to start; kinda puts Subaru in a pickle, as the EV is going to be comparatively expensive.
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Old 11-23-2021, 09:20 PM   #353
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220 miles is just fine if someone views it as a regional car. My only issue with the mileage is if it comes with a $50K price tag, which seems all but inevitable if you want anything but a fwd stripped down model.
220 miles is inadequate when you factor in real world usage (winter weather, battery maintenance charge levels etc). Would people be happy to spend $45-$50k on a car that can only get 150 miles in the winter?
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Old 11-23-2021, 10:24 PM   #354
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Until?

Tesla S/X/3/Y = Dual Motor
VW ID.4 = Dual Motor
Ford MME = Dual Motor
Polestar 2 = Dual Motor
Audi e-Tron = Dual Motor
Volvo XC40R = Dual Motor
Rivian R1T = Dual Motor

IIRC, the Crosstrek Hybrid was launched when it was the only AWD Hybrid on the market. Also, the Iceland cars ran in gas mode almost completely due to the cold weather and the fact that the battery depletes after 15 miles. Either way, it has the same credentials of any Crosstrek.

220 miles is very low, especially for a 2022 product.

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Originally Posted by Snow Drift View Post
....So, now, the major benefit to Subaru vs all is perhaps X-Mode software and ride height (but everyone can program their cars to be aggressive and allow extra slip, etc).

This "until". Can any of those other ones follow the Solterra where ever it's going to go? Even if they did program that, do they have the ground clearance?



As for the Crosstrek Hybrid, there were other "AWD" hybrids out. The mechanical front and motor at the rear. So, when the battery was dead.....FWD only.


You made the point of the Crosstrek Hybrids with your own statement there. It is still capable when the battery is dead. And ONLY at that point does it have the same credentials as a regular Crosstrek. In normal driving, the Crosstrek doesn't get 30+ MPG city. Does ANY other AWD hybrid do that yet? AND still be as capable as the Crosstrek?


Quote:
Originally Posted by Snow Drift View Post
I will raise you my theory... keep it low range to not impact the rest of the line.

I am still waiting to see if this is an appliance only sold in ZEV states (like my Crosstrek).
Quote:
Originally Posted by Angelus911 View Post
220 miles is inadequate when you factor in real world usage (winter weather, battery maintenance charge levels etc). Would people be happy to spend $45-$50k on a car that can only get 150 miles in the winter?


Yeah, but the point of the Solterra is to do "more". So, shorter range just because of weather, then you actually DO something. Drain it much faster. I am sure that Model Y's 300mile range is driving "normal". How many hard accelerations to beat that STI/Mustang/Camaro/whatever are done AND achieve 300mile range?


As I've said, I'm a bit disappointed in the range; but, have hopes it will be improved "soon".
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Old 11-23-2021, 10:54 PM   #355
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220 miles is inadequate when you factor in real world usage (winter weather, battery maintenance charge levels etc). Would people be happy to spend $45-$50k on a car that can only get 150 miles in the winter?
Honestly, there's too many variables to make a blanket statement like that. 220 miles max capacity is fine for me for a regional commuter. It will service almost all of my needs. Literally everywhere I go is less than like 50 miles away, it's great living in a place with everything close by.

A 220 mile battery at 80% is 176 miles. Subtract a bit for cushion, and maybe you're at 160 miles. That's 80 miles each way. That's still a pretty good distance. And if you know you have a longer trip, you charge it to 100% for that one trip, and have 100 miles each way. I know that personally, for the two vehicles that I will own, I will not want to be sitting in my EV for longer than 80 miles each way anyway, so we'll be taking the ICE for comfort.

We're just not ready to commit the money to a longer range EV such that we'd feel comfortable using as a longer range car. Simple as that. Going to get a leaf plus for less than 30k, combined with high teens trade in on our outback, and it's basically free, just going to write a check and be done with it. I'll get my feet wet with a cheap EV, and maybe be mentally ready to make the switch to a longer range, more expensive EV by the time we want to replace the highlander. OR, if something like a VW ID.3R comes out, I'll get rid of the leaf and hop into that.
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Old 11-23-2021, 11:14 PM   #356
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This "until". Can any of those other ones follow the Solterra where ever it's going to go? Even if they did program that, do they have the ground clearance?

As for the Crosstrek Hybrid, there were other "AWD" hybrids out. The mechanical front and motor at the rear. So, when the battery was dead.....FWD only.

You made the point of the Crosstrek Hybrids with your own statement there. It is still capable when the battery is dead. And ONLY at that point does it have the same credentials as a regular Crosstrek. In normal driving, the Crosstrek doesn't get 30+ MPG city. Does ANY other AWD hybrid do that yet? AND still be as capable as the Crosstrek?

Yeah, but the point of the Solterra is to do "more". So, shorter range just because of weather, then you actually DO something. Drain it much faster. I am sure that Model Y's 300mile range is driving "normal". How many hard accelerations to beat that STI/Mustang/Camaro/whatever are done AND achieve 300mile range?

As I've said, I'm a bit disappointed in the range; but, have hopes it will be improved "soon".
Justy, your fanboi is showing; this is an entry level EV CUV (EUV?); it's basically Toyota begrudgingly putting something out there, and Subaru is just along for the ride. To the crosstrek vs. "hybrid AWD" models with ground clearance - I mean if you're going off-roading, like actually doing it seriously, you plan ahead, such where battery capacity isn't going to be an issue. "Back in the day" when I used to off-road, it wasn't uncommon to carry U-joints, spare axles, gas cans & tools for an excursion; point being; if you're really off-roading, you plan ahead for as many contingencies as you can so as not to disrupt your fun times.

Quote:
Originally Posted by dwf137 View Post
Honestly, there's too many variables to make a blanket statement like that. 220 miles max capacity is fine for me for a regional commuter. It will service almost all of my needs. Literally everywhere I go is less than like 50 miles away, it's great living in a place with everything close by.

A 220 mile battery at 80% is 176 miles. Subtract a bit for cushion, and maybe you're at 160 miles. That's 80 miles each way. That's still a pretty good distance. And if you know you have a longer trip, you charge it to 100% for that one trip, and have 100 miles each way. I know that personally, for the two vehicles that I will own, I will not want to be sitting in my EV for longer than 80 miles each way anyway, so we'll be taking the ICE for comfort.

We're just not ready to commit the money to a longer range EV such that we'd feel comfortable using as a longer range car. Simple as that. Going to get a leaf plus for less than 30k, combined with high teens trade in on our outback, and it's basically free, just going to write a check and be done with it. I'll get my feet wet with a cheap EV, and maybe be mentally ready to make the switch to a longer range, more expensive EV by the time we want to replace the highlander. OR, if something like a VW ID.3R comes out, I'll get rid of the leaf and hop into that.
No doubt this is in the Leaf/Bolt realm of EV's, not in the Tesla realm (Ford & VW are in their own screwy mid-realms, Porsche is in the high-end Tesla Realm, but honestly making a better car with worse electronics; welcome to EV "mainstream" infancy.

People looking for a "bread and butter" boring daily will appreciate this vehicle, the same way they have enjoyed the Leaf & Bolt; I am personally glad I was pushed away from that particular bullet by a ****ty salesperson, as I almost bought a Bolt.
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Old 11-23-2021, 11:57 PM   #357
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Justy, your fanboi is showing; this is an entry level EV CUV (EUV?); it's basically Toyota begrudgingly putting something out there, and Subaru is just along for the ride. To the crosstrek vs. "hybrid AWD" models with ground clearance - I mean if you're going off-roading, like actually doing it seriously, you plan ahead, such where battery capacity isn't going to be an issue. "Back in the day" when I used to off-road, it wasn't uncommon to carry U-joints, spare axles, gas cans & tools for an excursion; point being; if you're really off-roading, you plan ahead for as many contingencies as you can so as not to disrupt your fun times.



This is not the case.


And you seem to have a black(rock crawling, etc) and white(that one Plasma Green pic showed on a dirt road) look at off-roading. Each time something like this comes up, I regret even more not videoing what I did with an Ascent loaner. And that would be an EVERY DAY thing if I lived in that area(north central Arkansas). Or any area similar. And even not living there, it's the type of thing I enjoy doing occasionally that my Subarus have always provided that others couldn't.It's not about "planning" and doing it "seriously". It's just about doing it whenever. On a whim. Planned out. Whatever. Subaru, since 1972 and 20,000,000 AWDs later, has always been about that. Now, it IS certainly changing with newer offerings from other manufacturers; but, it's very clear that the Solterra will be more capable than it's direct competitors. For the time being. Which is not going to be the R1T.


And remember, I am disappointed in the range.


I wasn't interested at all in this at first cause I believed it was just the Pleiades on at Toyota. Then I learned different. Still ain't buying one whilst it being built in a Toyota factory though.
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Old 11-24-2021, 12:41 AM   #358
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Does Toyota have QC issues and recalls worse than Subaru or something?
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Old 11-24-2021, 10:07 AM   #359
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62kWh pack Leaf starts at 32,400 (FWD only)
65kWh pack Bolt EUV starts at 33,000 (FWD only, but a more direct comparison)
71.4/72.8kWh pack BZ4X in FWD guise should land in that realm to start (low-mid 30's) AWD BZ4X/Solterra will obviously be more, how much more is yet to be known, but maybe high 30's for a base trim AWD, maybe closer to 40, but they are putting smaller motors in the AWD models so the total power output doesn't increase much, you just get AWD and the tiny bump in power means performance will be roughly the same when added weight is considered ([email protected] AWD at 2x80kW-160kW total)

For comparison, the Rav4 starts @ 26,350 for a FWD LE, but the price creeps up real quick due to all the tiers & drivetrain configurations. maybe there will be a ~10k spread "like for like" ICE vs. EV.
Forester is 25,200 to start; kinda puts Subaru in a pickle, as the EV is going to be comparatively expensive.
I'd day the Solterra's primary segment competitor (ex. bz4x) is the Volkswagen ID.4.

ID.4 AWD = 8.2" ground clearance vs 8.3" Solterra
ID.4 AWD = 82 kWh (77 kWh usable) vs 71.4 kWh Solterra
ID.4 AWD = 295/339 hp/tq vs 215/248 hp/tq Solterra
ID.4 AWD = 5.7sec 0-60 vs 7.7 0-60 Solterra
ID.4 AWD = 249 miles vs 220 miles Solterra
ID.4 AWD = $43,675 / $48,175 / $49,675 vs. ??? Solterra

I can't say how popular the ID.4 has been, especially since it launched in RWD only.
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Old 11-24-2021, 10:15 AM   #360
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Does Toyota have QC issues and recalls worse than Subaru or something?



<--------Fanboi




I'd have never owned a Traviq. I'd have never owned a Bighorn. And as sad as I am to say it, I'd have never owned a 1995-latest model Justy. Or any of the other small Diahatsu/Toyotas they put a Subaru badge on.
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Old 11-24-2021, 10:25 AM   #361
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This "until". Can any of those other ones follow the Solterra where ever it's going to go? Even if they did program that, do they have the ground clearance?

As for the Crosstrek Hybrid, there were other "AWD" hybrids out. The mechanical front and motor at the rear. So, when the battery was dead.....FWD only.

You made the point of the Crosstrek Hybrids with your own statement there. It is still capable when the battery is dead. And ONLY at that point does it have the same credentials as a regular Crosstrek. In normal driving, the Crosstrek doesn't get 30+ MPG city. Does ANY other AWD hybrid do that yet? AND still be as capable as the Crosstrek?

Yeah, but the point of the Solterra is to do "more". So, shorter range just because of weather, then you actually DO something. Drain it much faster. I am sure that Model Y's 300mile range is driving "normal". How many hard accelerations to beat that STI/Mustang/Camaro/whatever are done AND achieve 300mile range?

As I've said, I'm a bit disappointed in the range; but, have hopes it will be improved "soon".
Solterra = 8.3" ground clearance - clearly it's not alone:
Tesla S/3 & Polestar 2 = NA, they are cars
Tesla X = 8.1"
Tesla Y = 6.6"
VW ID.4 = 8.2"
Ford MME = 5.7"
Audi e-Tron = 8.2"
Volvo XC40R = 8.3"
Rivian R1T = 7.9 to 14.4"
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Old 11-24-2021, 11:08 AM   #362
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This is not the case.


And you seem to have a black(rock crawling, etc) and white(that one Plasma Green pic showed on a dirt road) look at off-roading. Each time something like this comes up, I regret even more not videoing what I did with an Ascent loaner. And that would be an EVERY DAY thing if I lived in that area(north central Arkansas). Or any area similar. And even not living there, it's the type of thing I enjoy doing occasionally that my Subarus have always provided that others couldn't.It's not about "planning" and doing it "seriously". It's just about doing it whenever. On a whim. Planned out. Whatever. Subaru, since 1972 and 20,000,000 AWDs later, has always been about that. Now, it IS certainly changing with newer offerings from other manufacturers; but, it's very clear that the Solterra will be more capable than it's direct competitors. For the time being. Which is not going to be the R1T.


And remember, I am disappointed in the range.


I wasn't interested at all in this at first cause I believed it was just the Pleiades on at Toyota. Then I learned different. Still ain't buying one whilst it being built in a Toyota factory though.
Maybe it's a definition of terms then?

I've unintentionally gone down class IV roads with cars not meant to go down them:

Once in Vermont in a friends Pontiac Vibe where I had to get out and spot for him; we were trying to save time getting to a remote shop, didn't save time but got a good story out of it, and we took the long way around back.

Once in my wifes Yaris in NH while trying to get to a trailhead with we had never hiked before, it was honestly a fun time.

I don't consider either of those events "off roading" nor do I do them regularly; and honestly my WRX (pre-drop) was fine on the NH Class IV road when we wanted to hike it again; post drop was a no-go, and obviously my IS would not have been fine on either of those roads.

Class III roads (gravel, dirt) I don't consider off-roading either; I don't want to take my IS on them, but I do when I have no other choice, I just go slow.

So what do you consider off-roading? for me it is/was stuff that required ground clearance, diffs & A/T tires. Getting stuck or breaking something was a real possibility, so I brought spares of the weak parts, straps, a come-along & always did it in with at least one other vehicle in the group, none of my buddies had winches at the time.

I don't consider "off-pavement" excursions off-roading; going to a camp site is similarly not off-roading.

Back to the BZ4X/Solterra; the range isn't great, but it's not meant for long excursions into nowhere, or else they would have stuffed a bigger battery in it/made a bigger pack an option; skid plates and other off-road goodies would also be offered if they had any intention of stepping into the off-road realm.

This is an EV-CUV because people buy CUVs and EVs are becoming a bigger thing; Toyota realized they can't ignore it anymore. This isn't an E-Bronco or E-Wrangler (which are honestly mostly "mall crawlers" anyways), it's a unibody entry level crossover with entry level EV range, primarily intended for grocery getting, shuttling people to work, etc.

To Subarus in general, I'm no saying they aren't capable, I'm saying that isn't what they were designed for, that's all marketing.

I owned a Subaru for a long time, yet I've never had a dog, and I've never vaped.
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Old 11-24-2021, 11:59 AM   #363
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Solterra = 8.3" ground clearance - clearly it's not alone:
Tesla S/3 & Polestar 2 = NA, they are cars
Tesla X = 8.1"
Tesla Y = 6.6"
VW ID.4 = 8.2"
Ford MME = 5.7"
Audi e-Tron = 8.2"
Volvo XC40R = 8.3"
Rivian R1T = 7.9 to 14.4"

Ground clearance is just one aspect. That doesn't necessarily mean much. It's the other thing you mention that I highlighted that matters. Can it do it. I've seen plenty of videos of the R1T doing amazing things. It's not likely, at it's price and being a truck, to be a direct competitor to the Solterra for the general Subaru customer though. R1S maybe; but, I think price will again be a factor. Along with size. It's big. And/or unless Subaru stupidly prices these high. Which I wouldn't be surprised.


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Originally Posted by Sid03SVT View Post
Maybe it's a definition of terms then?

I've unintentionally gone down class IV roads with cars not meant to go down them:

Once in Vermont in a friends Pontiac Vibe where I had to get out and spot for him; we were trying to save time getting to a remote shop, didn't save time but got a good story out of it, and we took the long way around back.

Once in my wifes Yaris in NH while trying to get to a trailhead with we had never hiked before, it was honestly a fun time.

I don't consider either of those events "off roading" nor do I do them regularly; and honestly my WRX (pre-drop) was fine on the NH Class IV road when we wanted to hike it again; post drop was a no-go, and obviously my IS would not have been fine on either of those roads.

Class III roads (gravel, dirt) I don't consider off-roading either; I don't want to take my IS on them, but I do when I have no other choice, I just go slow.

So what do you consider off-roading? for me it is/was stuff that required ground clearance, diffs & A/T tires. Getting stuck or breaking something was a real possibility, so I brought spares of the weak parts, straps, a come-along & always did it in with at least one other vehicle in the group, none of my buddies had winches at the time.

I don't consider "off-pavement" excursions off-roading; going to a camp site is similarly not off-roading.

Back to the BZ4X/Solterra; the range isn't great, but it's not meant for long excursions into nowhere, or else they would have stuffed a bigger battery in it/made a bigger pack an option; skid plates and other off-road goodies would also be offered if they had any intention of stepping into the off-road realm.

This is an EV-CUV because people buy CUVs and EVs are becoming a bigger thing; Toyota realized they can't ignore it anymore. This isn't an E-Bronco or E-Wrangler (which are honestly mostly "mall crawlers" anyways), it's a unibody entry level crossover with entry level EV range, primarily intended for grocery getting, shuttling people to work, etc.

To Subarus in general, I'm no saying they aren't capable, I'm saying that isn't what they were designed for, that's all marketing.

I owned a Subaru for a long time, yet I've never had a dog, and I've never vaped.

I've never lived where the road classification mattered; so, I don't understand what they are. I do agree with most of what you said. "Any" car can do a lot for taking a person down maintained gravel roads and such. Even MORE upset I didn't video the Ascent ascent( sorry). I'm certainly not talking "extreme" stuff like rock crawling. There are things I think if a person wants to do regularly, it would be better to get a Wrangler or the like; but, have done some things myself in Justys, my Baja, Forester that was more than just "going to the camp site", as you say, that would open a lot of people's eyes that think a Wrangler like vehicle would be needed. I'm sure in another part of this forum there are a lot of owners with stories of their adventures.


Your next to last statement......Subaru's offerings are a direct reflection of what their customers have been doing since they introduced 4WD. Do you know how Subaru got into making 4WD? It was to get some electric company workers up a mountain more comfortably than the "jeep" like vehicle they were using. Story after story after story of people doing these things. The Outback was a response to what people do with their cars. Still not enough? Wilderness Editions(took them long enough though). Heck, even the dual range vehicles of the past.



They are designed to take people on their adventures. Where ever that may be(to an extent obviously).



Subaru's marketing has always been showing what the cars were capable of. Their current marketing from Carmichael Lynch was a direct result of them talking to customers. "Love" just didn't pop out of thin air. It was the overwhelming constant that came from all the owners they surveyed as they got the contract. That's all they have marketed for a long time. Owner experience.



Sorry. Rambling now.



One more thing I thought I responded to early. Don't remember who asked; but, yes, these will be available to any dealer that opts in and they are hoping for all I am sure. There won't be a lot of them though. The Crosstrek was focused on certain areas; but, could be sold anywhere if the dealer opted in. We could have opted in for the plug-in Crosstrek; but, didn't. The investment wasn't worth it at the time. We will be on this. I was hoping that would help in getting the Crosstrek as well, but it won't.
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Old 11-24-2021, 01:49 PM   #364
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Originally Posted by Sid03SVT View Post
Maybe it's a definition of terms then?

I've unintentionally gone down class IV roads with cars not meant to go down them:

Once in Vermont in a friends Pontiac Vibe where I had to get out and spot for him; we were trying to save time getting to a remote shop, didn't save time but got a good story out of it, and we took the long way around back.

Once in my wifes Yaris in NH while trying to get to a trailhead with we had never hiked before, it was honestly a fun time.

I don't consider either of those events "off roading" nor do I do them regularly; and honestly my WRX (pre-drop) was fine on the NH Class IV road when we wanted to hike it again; post drop was a no-go, and obviously my IS would not have been fine on either of those roads.

Class III roads (gravel, dirt) I don't consider off-roading either; I don't want to take my IS on them, but I do when I have no other choice, I just go slow.

So what do you consider off-roading? for me it is/was stuff that required ground clearance, diffs & A/T tires. Getting stuck or breaking something was a real possibility, so I brought spares of the weak parts, straps, a come-along & always did it in with at least one other vehicle in the group, none of my buddies had winches at the time.

I don't consider "off-pavement" excursions off-roading; going to a camp site is similarly not off-roading.

Back to the BZ4X/Solterra; the range isn't great, but it's not meant for long excursions into nowhere, or else they would have stuffed a bigger battery in it/made a bigger pack an option; skid plates and other off-road goodies would also be offered if they had any intention of stepping into the off-road realm.

This is an EV-CUV because people buy CUVs and EVs are becoming a bigger thing; Toyota realized they can't ignore it anymore. This isn't an E-Bronco or E-Wrangler (which are honestly mostly "mall crawlers" anyways), it's a unibody entry level crossover with entry level EV range, primarily intended for grocery getting, shuttling people to work, etc.

To Subarus in general, I'm no saying they aren't capable, I'm saying that isn't what they were designed for, that's all marketing.

I owned a Subaru for a long time, yet I've never had a dog, and I've never vaped.
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Old 11-24-2021, 02:04 PM   #365
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Ground clearance is just one aspect. That doesn't necessarily mean much. It's the other thing you mention that I highlighted that matters. Can it do it. I've seen plenty of videos of the R1T doing amazing things. It's not likely, at it's price and being a truck, to be a direct competitor to the Solterra for the general Subaru customer though. R1S maybe; but, I think price will again be a factor. Along with size. It's big. And/or unless Subaru stupidly prices these high. Which I wouldn't be surprised.

One more thing I thought I responded to early. Don't remember who asked; but, yes, these will be available to any dealer that opts in and they are hoping for all I am sure. There won't be a lot of them though. The Crosstrek was focused on certain areas; but, could be sold anywhere if the dealer opted in. We could have opted in for the plug-in Crosstrek; but, didn't. The investment wasn't worth it at the time. We will be on this. I was hoping that would help in getting the Crosstrek as well, but it won't.
Apologies, I should have wrote R1S.

Subaru only sold the Hybrids in ZEV States. EDIT: Example, you couldn't buy the 2014-2016 Hybrid in Colorado, which would obviously want the car. The PHEV was only sold in the old 10 ZEV states + Colorado (new 2019 ZEV state).

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Old 11-24-2021, 02:12 PM   #366
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Apologies, I should have wrote R1S.

Subaru only sold the Hybrids in ZEV States. Example, you can't buy it in Colorado, which would obviously want the car.
I believe I read somewhere that the Toyota version is confirmed for all 50 states. Would be a poor choice for Subaru to restrict to certain states.
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Old 11-24-2021, 03:11 PM   #367
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I believe I read somewhere that the Toyota version is confirmed for all 50 states. Would be a poor choice for Subaru to restrict to certain states.
Depends on production volumes. If you produce a low number of cars and then sell too many in non-ZEV states, the company misses out on earning ZEV credits. They need ZEV credits for CARB requirements. If they don't generate enough, they have to buy them from Tesla, etc.

So, an appliance would be low volume and only sold in ZEV states (like the Crosstreks). A high volume BEV would show that Subaru is serious.
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Old 11-24-2021, 07:35 PM   #368
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Apologies, I should have wrote R1S.

Subaru only sold the Hybrids in ZEV States. EDIT: Example, you couldn't buy the 2014-2016 Hybrid in Colorado, which would obviously want the car. The PHEV was only sold in the old 10 ZEV states + Colorado (new 2019 ZEV state).
You "could" buy one in Colorado if they REALLY wanted to sell it. Same as here. There were just too many hurdles along with the investments to support it that the non ZEV states just didn't care. This, I think, will have really good participation.
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Old 11-25-2021, 09:08 AM   #369
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You "could" buy one in Colorado if they REALLY wanted to sell it. Same as here. There were just too many hurdles along with the investments to support it that the non ZEV states just didn't care. This, I think, will have really good participation.
You know more than I on dealer topics but zero non-ZEV states sold it. So I donít know what is the truth.
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Old 11-26-2021, 01:19 PM   #370
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You know more than I on dealer topics but zero non-ZEV states sold it. So I donít know what is the truth.



I was just clarifying. They could have; but, the cost and if I remember correctly the allocations to the non states wouldn't be as prioritized.



I think the majority of retailers will opt in to this one. Maybe not the really small ones right away; but, I think they have too at some point.
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Old 12-09-2021, 08:18 PM   #371
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Selling a 220 mile range car is not competitive (especially at the $40-50k price range estimates) and is not going to effectively help to change the hearts and minds of non-believers.
I have heard rumours that it will less than $40K (probably not comparable to Nissan Leaf)
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Old 12-09-2021, 08:34 PM   #372
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I believe I read somewhere that the Toyota version is confirmed for all 50 states. Would be a poor choice for Subaru to restrict to certain states.
There has to be a difference between being confirmed and actively marketing. Toyota has publicly stated that they intend to sell 15% of US vehicles by 2030 as BEVs. The ZEV states are roughly 15% of the population, so it is impossible for Toyota to shoot for the same level of marketing,

Toyota's goal is 55% of hybrids in the US by 2030. It looks like BEVs for California, etc. and hybrids for Florida, Louisiana, Michigan, Texas etc.

Subaru Corporation CEO Tomomi Nakamura says the target of 40 percent electrified vehicles by mid-2025 to 2030 was made late 2019 and Subaru executives will now rethink their electrification goals. Subaru joined Toyota Motor Group in February 2020. I think it is more likely that Subaru's electrification goals will match those of Toyota.
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Old 12-12-2021, 07:43 PM   #373
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For my location I would either have range anxiety cutting it close in the summer or be required to super charge in the winter for like 10 minutes to make it home for most of the adventures I do. Many are in the middle of nowhere Maine so I would be screwed if the one super charger location is down or full.
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Old 12-13-2021, 11:02 AM   #374
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There has to be a difference between being confirmed and actively marketing. Toyota has publicly stated that they intend to sell 15% of US vehicles by 2030 as BEVs. The ZEV states are roughly 15% of the population, so it is impossible for Toyota to shoot for the same level of marketing,

Toyota's goal is 55% of hybrids in the US by 2030. It looks like BEVs for California, etc. and hybrids for Florida, Louisiana, Michigan, Texas etc.

Subaru Corporation CEO Tomomi Nakamura says the target of 40 percent electrified vehicles by mid-2025 to 2030 was made late 2019 and Subaru executives will now rethink their electrification goals. Subaru joined Toyota Motor Group in February 2020. I think it is more likely that Subaru's electrification goals will match those of Toyota.
I guess the issue becomes if the brand starts to lose it's individuality when all their EV's are rebadged Toyotas. At the end of the decade we could be looking at a Subaru lineup that is half Toyota. It's why I feel Subaru has peaked as a brand as they will lose all their individuality when they start offering mostly EV's that are based on Toyota design and there's no more boxer engines or symmetrical AWD. They will be just another EV in a market full of dual motor EV's.
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Old 12-13-2021, 11:59 AM   #375
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For my location I would either have range anxiety cutting it close in the summer or be required to super charge in the winter for like 10 minutes to make it home for most of the adventures I do. Many are in the middle of nowhere Maine so I would be screwed if the one super charger location is down or full.
10 minutes is barely long enough to use the bathroom and get a snack. It's really not bad.

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I guess the issue becomes if the brand starts to lose it's individuality when all their EV's are rebadged Toyotas. At the end of the decade we could be looking at a Subaru lineup that is half Toyota. It's why I feel Subaru has peaked as a brand as they will lose all their individuality when they start offering mostly EV's that are based on Toyota design and there's no more boxer engines or symmetrical AWD. They will be just another EV in a market full of dual motor EV's.
The "brand" is based on feelings, emotions and design. Subaru can differentiate itself with exterior/interior, software control over the motors/traction control and overall brand ideals. Most buyers don't know what a Boxer engine is, nor do they want to hear an exhaust. The AWD can be different than others w/ the use of software. Not all EVs will have the same robust use of the awd system. You can still use mechanical differentials vs. open, plus X-Mode, and anything else they develop.
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