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Old 11-05-2021, 10:02 AM   #3226
JustyWRC
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Originally Posted by subyski View Post
True, most of the cosmetics were the 08 premium and STI parts.

The 08 engine had a different variation of the TD04 turbo/tune (hit peak HP and TQ earlier). Why make those efforts when they could have just carried over the 07 engine/turbo/tune? It was an attempt to make it a better every day driver than peaky.

The 09 engine had a completely different character than that 08 engine, not just higher output. You can say it was in the works but if it was, it seemed rushed. The 09 WRX was not just a new engine, they made suspension, interior, and cosmetic changes too because the 08 didn't fare well in reviews. The 4EAT couldn't handle the power and they never developed an AT for it. What I believe was an unintended byproduct was the 09 WRX ended up being faster 0-60 than the STI.

Then, it was like they didn't know what to do with the 08 engine and suspension, so they made the AT only Impreza GT.

As for the 2022 WRX, I'm wondering how it's received in Japan as an OEM design. Japan has some crazy aftermarket/customization scenes but so does everywhere. How does this design lend to these customization/modification scenes? I can honestly only see it being modified towards the off-road/lifted/overland scene like the Crosstrek. If I were to buy this WRX and wanted to modify it, I would go that route, which is probably Subaru's intent. It would probably look better with 16" wheels, off-road tires, and covered with mud. At least the VA and prior could be modified/customized in any direction and look relatively good.

I'm just not counting the days until my eyes have to endure someone lowering this and adding Rally Armors to it.

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Originally Posted by Sid03SVT View Post
If it's coming out bright orange & gray, you should see a doctor & have them stuff a camera up there.

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Old 11-05-2021, 12:33 PM   #3227
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Generally, the "Impreza" buyer isn't a "WRX" buyer. WAY too far off price point. Neither is the Crosstrek buyer. I'm gonna agree with the misstep. They just designed something that is mostly disliked. We'll see if they consider it as bad as the Bugeye and have a 2 year change or not.
Subaru doesn't care about our opinions only sales of their vehicles. I'm not convinced it's a misstep yet. The average consumer isn't nearly as picky as enthusiasts and IMO a lot of VA WRX owners I see up here are middle aged men that probably wanted something a little sportier than a Crosstrek as I see younger owners in STI's. I wouldn't be surprised if these cars sell well as-is. The G8x M3/M4 got a lot of hate at introduction for the grilles but they have been selling very well so you have to take the opinions of internet mobs with a grain of salt.

I don't see much they can change outside of painting the black plastic which I assume they were leaving for the STI. That's the most likely change I can see coming and maybe the manual transmission added as an option with the GT trim. With all the talk about the styling I feel it was a bit of a misstep to limit the best suspension setup to the CVT.
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Old 11-05-2021, 12:48 PM   #3228
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If it's coming out bright orange & gray, you should see a doctor & have them stuff a camera up there.
LMAO. Not long in the future will I have to do this. So far just the glove but I'm dreading that camera experience as I've heard it is a terrible appointment.
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Old 11-05-2021, 01:05 PM   #3229
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Subaru doesn't care about our opinions only sales of their vehicles. I'm not convinced it's a misstep yet. The average consumer isn't nearly as picky as enthusiasts and IMO a lot of VA WRX owners I see up here are middle aged men that probably wanted something a little sportier than a Crosstrek as I see younger owners in STI's. I wouldn't be surprised if these cars sell well as-is. The G8x M3/M4 got a lot of hate at introduction for the grilles but they have been selling very well so you have to take the opinions of internet mobs with a grain of salt.

I don't see much they can change outside of painting the black plastic which I assume they were leaving for the STI. That's the most likely change I can see coming and maybe the manual transmission added as an option with the GT trim. With all the talk about the styling I feel it was a bit of a misstep to limit the best suspension setup to the CVT.
There's still a lot we don't know. Even looks for the WRX have barely impacted sales. But there are still large missing pieces we don't know: how it drives and price/packaging. Ride-alongs with a pro driver doesn't count. What is the powerband? Criticism of the minimal power gain and lowered redline still linger. How does it handle? Price will be a factor since the competition's pricing in has gone up and/or packaging options have been reduced. We only know the four trims. There's some hope here as Subaru didn't increase the pricing on the BRZ.
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Old 11-05-2021, 01:11 PM   #3230
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Originally Posted by heavyD View Post
Subaru doesn't care about our opinions only sales of their vehicles. I'm not convinced it's a misstep yet. The average consumer isn't nearly as picky as enthusiasts and IMO a lot of VA WRX owners I see up here are middle aged men that probably wanted something a little sportier than a Crosstrek as I see younger owners in STI's. I wouldn't be surprised if these cars sell well as-is. The G8x M3/M4 got a lot of hate at introduction for the grilles but they have been selling very well so you have to take the opinions of internet mobs with a grain of salt.

I don't see much they can change outside of painting the black plastic which I assume they were leaving for the STI. That's the most likely change I can see coming and maybe the manual transmission added as an option with the GT trim. With all the talk about the styling I feel it was a bit of a misstep to limit the best suspension setup to the CVT.

I agree with most of that except the first sentence.....to a point. But, yeah, it is crazy sometimes what you think a person wants, to what they actually go for. And 100000% agree about the availability of the suspension stuff.


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LMAO. Not long in the future will I have to do this. So far just the glove but I'm dreading that camera experience as I've heard it is a terrible appointment.

It's the cleansing the day before. You'll never know anything about the actual procedure and will feel SOOOO rested after. I understand now why Michael Jackson loved that drug soo much.
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Old 11-05-2021, 01:24 PM   #3231
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There's still a lot we don't know. Even looks for the WRX have barely impacted sales. But there are still large missing pieces we don't know: how it drives and price/packaging. Ride-alongs with a pro driver doesn't count. What is the powerband? Criticism of the minimal power gain and lowered redline still linger. How does it handle? Price will be a factor since the competition's pricing in has gone up and/or packaging options have been reduced. We only know the four trims. There's some hope here as Subaru didn't increase the pricing on the BRZ.
The vehicle has no competition at the price point it's at. Now you get up into that lame GT deal with the Super CVT or whatever the F they call it, that's a different story, but the models below, there is no comp. Booby knows this, so for all anyone knows here, this is a test case to yet again, see what they can get away with. It's the poker table and they are gambling. They are willing, yet again, to risk existing customers for new ones. I think handling, redline, the big lame iPad, all irrelevant really. For the herd mentality, all that matter is if the buying public takes to the CUV-ish styling. Booby is gambling on this CUV thing taking.
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Old 11-05-2021, 02:29 PM   #3232
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The trims, and the limited availability of the 6MT aren't set in stone either.

If Subaru decided to offer what's effectively a premium 6MT trim of the Crosstrek *just* for the Canadian market, they can easily change course and offer the WRX GT in a MT version. Especially that the WRX target crowd is more MT-oriented than the Crosstrek peeps (save for a few purists).
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Old 11-05-2021, 02:43 PM   #3233
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The vehicle has no competition at the price point it's at. Now you get up into that lame GT deal with the Super CVT or whatever the F they call it, that's a different story, but the models below, there is no comp. Booby knows this, so for all anyone knows here, this is a test case to yet again, see what they can get away with. It's the poker table and they are gambling. They are willing, yet again, to risk existing customers for new ones. I think handling, redline, the big lame iPad, all irrelevant really. For the herd mentality, all that matter is if the buying public takes to the CUV-ish styling. Booby is gambling on this CUV thing taking.
It's not Subaru knows this but the other manufacturers know this too. There seems to be no direct competitors for anything in the segment anymore (a true apple to apple comparison). So each manufacturer is left creating their own product with varying combinations of body styles, drive wheels, transmissions, price, power levels. Selecting anything will leave you wishing for more of something someone else offers.
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Old 11-05-2021, 03:36 PM   #3234
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Subaru doesn't care about our opinions only sales of their vehicles. I'm not convinced it's a misstep yet. The average consumer isn't nearly as picky as enthusiasts ...
You could say the exact same about when Porsche started making SUVs. A decision which might have saved their company.

Rennlist was probably in full meltdown mode back then, LOL.

From a recent article about Porsche:

Quote:
“When we published the plan that Porsche would develop and sell an SUV, especially the core fan base, they couldn’t believe it,” said Klaus Zellmer, CEO of Porsche Cars North America, in an interview. “They say, ‘That’s not my brand anymore.’ So it’s tough. You have to convince people.”

SOURCE: https://www.usatoday.com/story/money...rs/4502342002/
I guess the difference between Subaru and Porsche is that Porsche's SUVs did not compromise the design of their cars.
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Old 11-05-2021, 04:56 PM   #3235
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Originally Posted by Bluefoton View Post
The trims, and the limited availability of the 6MT aren't set in stone either.

If Subaru decided to offer what's effectively a premium 6MT trim of the Crosstrek *just* for the Canadian market, they can easily change course and offer the WRX GT in a MT version. Especially that the WRX target crowd is more MT-oriented than the Crosstrek peeps (save for a few purists).
I don't really think this is the case because of eyesight. Subaru's stubborn unwillingness to combine eyesight with MT, plus how that whole suite of tech is central to the GT trim rule it out in my eyes. All that BS is why I know in the deepest depths of my heart that Subaru will never make a manual Levorg for anywhere in the world.

STI might get the fancy damper stuff, but who knows what kind of deal that will pan out to be at this point. The only thing I feel sure about with the STI is that I will be mildly disappointed by it at minimum. Not that it matters, but fancy dampers are more of a con than a pro for me, as simpler is almost always better in my book.

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You could say the exact same about when Porsche started making SUVs. A decision which might have saved their company.

Rennlist was probably in full meltdown mode back then, LOL.

From a recent article about Porsche:


I guess the difference between Subaru and Porsche is that Porsche's SUVs did not compromise the design of their cars.
At first I was like "HA YEAH! GOOD ONE!" but then I really thought about it and I don't know... 911s have gotten awful big and comfy lately...
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Old 11-05-2021, 05:34 PM   #3236
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Getting bigger makes sense because of crash regulations and such. More comfy also makes sense because people with that kind of money tend to want more things for their money.

The WRX, however, appears to be an actual design compromise. Meaning they could've designed it some other way, but chose not to do so. It's not like the sales numbers were declining. They had no need to make such an abrupt design change. It's a social experiment, more than anything.
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Old 11-05-2021, 05:45 PM   #3237
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You could say the exact same about when Porsche started making SUVs. ... I guess the difference between Subaru and Porsche is that Porsche's SUVs did not compromise the design of their cars.
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Originally Posted by fredzy View Post
At first I was like "HA YEAH! GOOD ONE!" but then I really thought about it and I don't know... 911s have gotten awful big and comfy lately...
Well, Porsche does compromise some of its cars. But the 911 is the cause, not the effect.

The Cayman is almost always hobbled so it is not too close in performance to the 911. They gave it less displacement, crazy tall gearing, an open rear diff. For a while they even replaced the 6-cylinder with a 4-cylinder.

I'm not super current on my Porsches. They make like 42,069 variations of the 911 alone, so it is hard to keep up with them. But it really seems like they simply can't unleash the Cayman to its full potential because it would embarrass the 911.
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Old 11-05-2021, 11:23 PM   #3238
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I'm not super current on my Porsches. They make like 42,069 variations of the 911 alone, so it is hard to keep up with them. But it really seems like they simply can't unleash the Cayman to its full potential because it would embarrass the 911.
They’re releasing a GT4 RS, that will kick the **** out of most 911 variants on a track, so I don’t really see your point.
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Old 11-06-2021, 01:26 AM   #3239
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Default 2022 Subaru WRX Official Announcement

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Thing looks like what I flushed down the toilet yesterday afternoon.


Japanese society is very conservative in general, they would respond politely if they are not impressed but you’d be able to tell if they are impressed. A response like yours would be considered beneath their dignity.
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Old 11-08-2021, 08:30 PM   #3240
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... is the current STi going to go for another year?
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Old 11-08-2021, 09:46 PM   #3241
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... is the current STi going to go for another year?
I don't think so. the wrx is coming first. what we don't know is when the STI will debut or it's release date in the US. hopefully they surprise us next week with news.
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Old 11-08-2021, 10:24 PM   #3242
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... is the current STi going to go for another year?
Since WRX orders stopped I think that means the STI orders ceased as well. SoA tends to lump them together. On Subaru's website the WRX and STI are still 2021 models and lumped together. Despite the STI supposedly being separate from the WRX, it's still organized as a trim of the WRX on their site.

I do think the next STI will be even more of a separation though. They'll probably just skip "2022" and debut the 2023 STI less than a year from now. Just sell all the 2021 STI that are left and call it good.
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Old 11-08-2021, 11:31 PM   #3243
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Too bad no final edition EJ send off. I'd buy one.
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Old 11-09-2021, 10:23 AM   #3244
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Too bad no final edition EJ send off. I'd buy one.
Don't worry. It's possible the EJ isn't gone for good. The fact that the STI is behind probably has something to do with the rumor that Subaru is having difficulty getting reliable power over 300 hp with the FA24.
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Old 11-09-2021, 10:44 AM   #3245
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Don't worry. It's possible the EJ isn't gone for good. The fact that the STI is behind probably has something to do with the rumor that Subaru is having difficulty getting reliable power over 300 hp with the FA24.
Since when has a lack of engine reliability stopped Subaru?
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Old 11-09-2021, 01:22 PM   #3246
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Since when has a lack of engine reliability stopped Subaru?
Maybe they can't even get the FA24 out the door at 300+ hp? I don't know. Not exactly sure what else could be causing the delay seeing the adaptive suspension on the WRX GT will probably be used in the new STI and the AWD system and manual transmission will be likely unchanged. Maybe they are adding rear torque vectoring differential but IMO that's likely too complex and expensive for Subaru.
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Old 11-09-2021, 02:10 PM   #3247
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Maybe they can't even get the FA24 out the door at 300+ hp?
That seems a reasonable supposition.
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Old 11-09-2021, 05:11 PM   #3248
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Don't worry. It's possible the EJ isn't gone for good. The fact that the STI is behind probably has something to do with the rumor that Subaru is having difficulty getting reliable power over 300 hp with the FA24.
The STI isn't behind just yet. Still on par with release timeframes.
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Old 11-09-2021, 05:26 PM   #3249
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The trims, and the limited availability of the 6MT aren't set in stone either.

If Subaru decided to offer what's effectively a premium 6MT trim of the Crosstrek *just* for the Canadian market, they can easily change course and offer the WRX GT in a MT version. Especially that the WRX target crowd is more MT-oriented than the Crosstrek peeps (save for a few purists).
Exactly. I am sure we will see the adaptive suspension on the 6MT eventually. This car is going to be awesome all around. While I am not a fan of automatics, I am glad there is an option for those that don't care about driving a stick.
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Old 11-09-2021, 05:26 PM   #3250
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The STI isn't behind just yet. Still on par with release timeframes.
Correct, Im not sure why anyone is saying delay when we saw that the WRX and STI reveal were a year apart.
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