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Old 08-27-2021, 11:29 AM   #976
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Hmmmmmm
Definitely very interesting. Maybe Aussies have more wagon options. Also I think theyíre rather expensive down under. Itís true that wagons just donít sell here. I remember I think it was Acura that made a wagon not too long ago, only reason I knew was because someone where I use to work had one. Never saw anyone else ever driving one. We have to remember that most people just buy 1 car for themselves. I guess many figure that an equally priced SUV is just more versatile when it can offer more space and higher clearance. Thatís not a mentality thatís exclusive to Americans.
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Old 08-27-2021, 11:41 AM   #977
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Definitely very interesting. Maybe Aussies have more wagon options. Also I think theyíre rather expensive down under. Itís true that wagons just donít sell here. I remember I think it was Acura that made a wagon not too long ago, only reason I knew was because someone where I use to work had one. Never saw anyone else ever driving one. We have to remember that most people just buy 1 car for themselves. I guess many figure that an equally priced SUV is just more versatile when it can offer more space and higher clearance. Thatís not a mentality thatís exclusive to Americans.
Australia is a very weird place in terms of cars. A lot of their tastes are like ours, but the insaaaaane prices are a curve ball. Plus crazy random JDM influx/influence.

I always thought they probably got Levorg because it was easy production and regulatory-wise. Probably sold more in AUS than Europe if I had to guess hah, <10,000 total units or whatever
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Old 08-27-2021, 11:59 AM   #978
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Hmmmmmm
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Originally Posted by AVANTI R5
Even in its outgoing guise, the Levorg was a niche product. Last year, Subaru sold just 306 examples against 407 BRZ coupes and 925 examples of its now defunct Liberty sedan.

Launched in 2016, the Levorg slotted in between the Impreza and the now discontinued Liberty. It helped fill a gap left by the axing of the Liberty wagon in 2014, which left the high-riding Outback as the only Subaru with a traditional wagon silhouette. For a while the Levorg posted solid numbers, particularly for an unpopular body style in an ailing segment. Subaru sold 1621 in its first year, followed by 1210 units the year after.
Levorg sold only 11,800 units in Japan in 2020:
https://www.statista.com/statistics/...-sales-volume/

So, Levorg is unpopular everywhere? Does Tom know what he is talking about?
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Old 08-27-2021, 12:09 PM   #979
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Levorg sold only 11,800 units in Japan in 2020:
https://www.statista.com/statistics/...-sales-volume/

So, Levorg is unpopular everywhere? Does Tom know what he is talking about?
I don't recall Tom EVER saying anything at all about a Levorg.
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Old 08-27-2021, 12:18 PM   #980
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I don't recall Tom EVER saying anything at all about a Levorg.
Everyone was upset when we didn't get another WRX hatch because of the "cost of development," and yet they were developing a wagon version for ROW.

We don't get a Levorg and we didn't get a new WRX 5 Door. The Levorg is basically the WRX wagon. So, SOA made the decision to not import the Levorg...

Last edited by Snow Drift; 08-27-2021 at 12:25 PM.
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Old 08-27-2021, 12:26 PM   #981
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If they use that TA24 engine from Lexus. GR will need to massage it and add the D-4S system to make it an engine that can run high rpms and not be a boring SUV engine. The GR Yaris uses D-4S in its 1.6L, which allows them to get even more power by bumping up the rev range from such a small engine.

T24A uses D4-S. It is still very much a CUV engine in current configuration, though.
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Old 08-27-2021, 01:03 PM   #982
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I don't recall Tom EVER saying anything at all about a Levorg.
how dare you utter that word. we don't speak of it.

ďFor the next generation we are moving away from the five-door style Ö weíve gone for a sedan only. Performance sedans are defined in the sedan segment.Ē - Tom Doll
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Old 08-27-2021, 01:09 PM   #983
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how dare you utter that word. we don't speak of it.

"For the next generation we are moving away from the five-door style ***8230; we've gone for a sedan only. Performance sedans are defined in the sedan segment." - Tom Doll
That man is a visionary like Elon.

Queue JPChestnut and WRB Cardigan.
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Old 08-27-2021, 01:18 PM   #984
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Australia is a very weird place in terms of cars. A lot of their tastes are like ours, but the insaaaaane prices are a curve ball. Plus crazy random JDM influx/influence.



Australia is a very good place. They have better tastes in cars (and trucks, more based in reality than image) than Americans.
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Old 08-27-2021, 01:20 PM   #985
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how dare you utter that word. we don't speak of it.

ďFor the next generation we are moving away from the five-door style Ö weíve gone for a sedan only. Performance sedans are defined in the sedan segment.Ē - Tom Doll
Those last five words I always thought was a mistake for him to say. But it's still not L*#*": specific.


As for what I had responded to. "Does he know what he's talking about".

How about someone do a graph of Subaru's sales from day one till now and see what happened when he took over. I'd say, yeah. He does.

Do I always agree? No. They got rid of my Justy. My Baja. But, aren't all manufacturers doing similar things? But are many(if any) doing as well as Subaru? Just sayin.


I'm hoping they get back to in person training. I would like to drive the new WRX. I'm sure it'll be a while before I get to play with one with all the pre-sold cars that are gonna happen.
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Old 08-27-2021, 01:22 PM   #986
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Oh. And anyone thinking of getting an STI. Sold orders end Monday. Haven't heard if there'll be a '22 yet.
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Old 08-27-2021, 01:26 PM   #987
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Those last five words I always thought was a mistake for him to say. But it's still not L*#*": specific.


As for what I had responded to. "Does he know what he's talking about".
I was implying that based on poor ROW sales, Tom was probably correct about the wagon/hatch's lack of popularity and thus they didn't bring a WRX variant to the US (despite NASIOC's view on the subject).
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Old 08-27-2021, 01:46 PM   #988
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Oh. And anyone thinking of getting an STI. Sold orders end Monday. Haven't heard if there'll be a '22 yet.

Thank you for the confirmation on the STI orders , have been wondering about it for a while now.
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Old 08-27-2021, 02:05 PM   #989
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Regardless of consumer tastes, here in the states the EPA factors into many business decisions. Wagons will never sell when the manufactures will take a hit on their corporate mileage numbers.

If and when the EPA aligns more with euro standards Subaru is in trouble. Maybe the WRX will be Outbacked for truck classification? Give Subaru a bit more time to figure out emissions.

Peace,

Greg
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Old 08-27-2021, 02:43 PM   #990
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How about someone do a graph of Subaru's sales from day one till now and see what happened when he took over. I'd say, yeah. He does.
They have absolutely sold more vehicles.

But they could have sold more if they offered a 5-door wrx option.
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Old 08-27-2021, 03:08 PM   #991
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They have absolutely sold more vehicles.

But they could have sold more if they offered a 5-door wrx option.
I'm going to say it would be about the same as they would have to cut sedan production to make them. Sooooooooo, is there some sort of other reason a wagon would hurt SOA?
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Old 08-27-2021, 03:22 PM   #992
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I'm going to say it would be about the same as they would have to cut sedan production to make them. Sooooooooo, is there some sort of other reason a wagon would hurt SOA?
Why cut production of the sedan? You're arguing that they're making and selling more cars now, so Tom Doll has made some good decisions, but at the same time suggesting that they can't do that with the wrx too? I remember seeing estimates that they made and sold a 50/50 split of sedans and 5-door wrx's before 2015. And anecdotally, I found both in the PNW, as well as the DC market, sedans sat discounted on dealer lots, while 5-doors were hard to find.

I will agree that a wagon likely has less appeal in the US than the previous 5-door hatchback, and that's likely why Tom decided not to bring it here.
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Old 08-27-2021, 04:14 PM   #993
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Why cut production of the sedan? You're arguing that they're making and selling more cars now, so Tom Doll has made some good decisions, but at the same time suggesting that they can't do that with the wrx too? I remember seeing estimates that they made and sold a 50/50 split of sedans and 5-door wrx's before 2015. And anecdotally, I found both in the PNW, as well as the DC market, sedans sat discounted on dealer lots, while 5-doors were hard to find.

I will agree that a wagon likely has less appeal in the US than the previous 5-door hatchback, and that's likely why Tom decided not to bring it here.
They have building to capacity for years. If they want to make a WRX wagon for the states, they would have to cut back on something to be able to make it. Only thing that would make sense is the "same" carline. That "50/50" number? Yeah. If they make 50/50, guess how many they will sell? And you know why the demand was higher for the 5door? Cause they were discontinuing it. We could barely move Bajas when they sat on the lot. SOA didn't announce they were discontinuing it until after they already stopped production. Once it was gone, we had people wanting it several times a week. I said "where were you when they were on the lots?" Constantly. I rushed to get one the moment I heard they stopped production. One dealer in Florida knew this kind of "it's leaving" demand and asked for as many as SOA would send him, when most dealers were trying to avoid it. Guess where dealers were calling for dealer trades?

If Subaru said they were sticking with 5 doors and no sedan, you'd have people complaining about that.
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Old 08-27-2021, 04:26 PM   #994
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They have building to capacity for years. If they want to make a WRX wagon for the states, they would have to cut back on something to be able to make it. Only thing that would make sense is the "same" carline. That "50/50" number? Yeah. If they make 50/50, guess how many they will sell? And you know why the demand was higher for the 5door? Cause they were discontinuing it. We could barely move Bajas when they sat on the lot. SOA didn't announce they were discontinuing it until after they already stopped production. Once it was gone, we had people wanting it several times a week. I said "where were you when they were on the lots?" Constantly. I rushed to get one the moment I heard they stopped production. One dealer in Florida knew this kind of "it's leaving" demand and asked for as many as SOA would send him, when most dealers were trying to avoid it. Guess where dealers were calling for dealer trades?

If Subaru said they were sticking with 5 doors and no sedan, you'd have people complaining about that.
I don't for one second believe that they're "building to capacity". They increased capacity to start building a 3 row. They've increased capacity to meet increased demand for the crosstrek. But somehow you're going to tell me that they're "at capacity" for the wrx and can't accommodate increased demand. Bull****. Where there's a will, there's a way.

I bought my hatchback in 2009, and my buddy bought his sedan from DC in 2011. This was very far away from subaru announcing there would be no hatchback. I bought one of two hatchbacks I could find in the seattle area. My buddy bought a sedan because he couldn't get a hatchback on a lot, and the sedan he bought was advertised as 3K off sticker, he got even more off by negotiating.
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Old 08-27-2021, 04:43 PM   #995
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I'm with SoD's consistent 8 year old line on this one: Americans would not purchase a Levorg body WRX like they did the WRX hatchback. The intent from the outset was to kill two birds with one model. There wasn't a third bird.

I hope HOPE there is a third bird in the works.
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Old 08-27-2021, 04:50 PM   #996
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I'm with SoD's consistent 8 year old line on this one: Americans would not purchase a Levorg body WRX like they did the WRX hatchback. The intent from the outset was to kill two birds with one model. There wasn't a third bird.

I hope HOPE there is a third bird in the works.
I agree, a wrx'd levorg wouldn't sell as well as a hatchback.

it sounds like the levorg overall isn't selling like hotcakes though. Wonder if it would be better for Subaru as a worldwide corporation to go back to the hatchback that would sell in the US, and ditch the levorg that sells in low units everywhere else...
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Old 08-27-2021, 05:18 PM   #997
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I don't for one second believe that they're "building to capacity". They increased capacity to start building a 3 row. They've increased capacity to meet increased demand for the crosstrek. But somehow you're going to tell me that they're "at capacity" for the wrx and can't accommodate increased demand. Bull****. Where there's a will, there's a way.

I bought my hatchback in 2009, and my buddy bought his sedan from DC in 2011. This was very far away from subaru announcing there would be no hatchback. I bought one of two hatchbacks I could find in the seattle area. My buddy bought a sedan because he couldn't get a hatchback on a lot, and the sedan he bought was advertised as 3K off sticker, he got even more off by negotiating.

They spent several BILLION dollars on the SIA expansion to take care of bringing the Impreza and starting the Ascent. And the retailer sales efficiency was still over 100%. The last 2 years, they have not even been able to build at "full" capacity. So, especially now, I seriously doubt they are worried about a car that will only hurt their CAFE.
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Old 08-27-2021, 05:19 PM   #998
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Oh. And anyone thinking of getting an STI. Sold orders end Monday. Haven't heard if there'll be a '22 yet.
Just got my new one last night after a 2 month or so wait coming over, glad I got it then.
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Old 08-27-2021, 05:23 PM   #999
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I agree, a wrx'd levorg wouldn't sell as well as a hatchback.

it sounds like the levorg overall isn't selling like hotcakes though. Wonder if it would be better for Subaru as a worldwide corporation to go back to the hatchback that would sell in the US, and ditch the levorg that sells in low units everywhere else...
I would agree with that. Iíd buy a wagon, but indeed seems like they just donít sell well anywhere. So makes sense of Subaru to consolidate into a hatch.
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Old 08-27-2021, 06:34 PM   #1000
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They spent several BILLION dollars on the SIA expansion to take care of bringing the Impreza and starting the Ascent. And the retailer sales efficiency was still over 100%. The last 2 years, they have not even been able to build at "full" capacity. So, especially now, I seriously doubt they are worried about a car that will only hurt their CAFE.
Well their daddy, Toyota, wants to build a hatch so maybe daddy will teach junior how to tee tee.
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