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Old 10-18-2021, 10:29 AM   #301
biknman
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Old 10-20-2021, 03:08 PM   #302
Sgt.Gator
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Default Enduro Tech Recap

Enduro Tech Recap. The air temps were foggy and a bit chilly in the morning, 55 degrees. They rose to 68 degrees in the afternoon. Full sun.
A few things we learned in the Enduro:

Pros:
Coolant temps are not an issue at all. The oem gauge stayed under halfway the entire time. This was confirmed on our AP data.

Oil Temps were almost too cold (more below). They stayed at 185 for a long time, eventually rising to 200-210 for the race. Even 6 hours in we were still at 205 or so.

Cons:
The rear diff has no cooler and needs one. It stayed at 240+ most of the race, hit a high of 250F. We'll be adding a pump and cooler over the winter.

The CV axle failed in the outer front passenger joint. This is a classic Subaru issue because of the nearby up & down pipes. The heat also affects the hub life. We have done extensive exhaust heat wrap on those pipes but it's not enough for endurance racing, especially at tracks like PIR in non chicane configuration, the WOT is a long stretch that blasts heat out the pipes. We are going to figure out a way to add an additional air intake ducted to the CV/Hub area on both front axles. Hopefully more cool air blowing in the area will solve this problem.

The DS scavenge is still not maintaining solid vacuum above 6,500 to 7,000 RPM. We have a one way valve on the crankcase vent that is normally closed under vacuum sending all the blow by to the DS tank to be vented. Again, due to the long straight, and shifting at 7K, the vacuum goes slightly positive, opening the valve and sending blow by gases to the catch can. If you keep doing this the catch can eventually overflows making a mess. However if we shift at 6K there is no problem at all. And we can occasionally shift at 7K if we are trying to pass a car and the brake zone for a corner is coming up. But routine shifting at 7K is the problem.

This also causes the oil temp to skyrocket. In the practice session we overflowed the catch can and hit 260F oil temp.

We think the scavenge pump is being overdriven and starts to cavitate at 7K. Unlike most traditional DS scavenge pumps that run at 1/2 crankspeed, ours runs at full crank speed+ off the A/C ring on the crank pulley. If that is the issue then adding more scavenge sections to the pump won't help. We'll do some testing this weekend at ORP to verify if this is what is happening.

The long term solution is a DS system like the Dailey Engineering and RCM systems, or a drive mandrel off the front of the crank like the former Cosworth system, or a mandrel attached to an ATI damped crank pulley which is used in many V8 applications. Or find a damped underdrive crank pulley, but neither ATI or Fluidamper makes one for the Subaru EJ. There is an underdrive crank pulley on the market but its not damped and we want to avoid that in a endurance race engine.

And we want to keep the STI and 818R as similar enginewise as possible. There's very little room between the front of the engine and the firewall due to the mid engine configuration.

However it's not a huge deal in the real world of endurance racing. If you want your engine to survive for 8 hours, or 25 hours, shifting at 6K is a very good idea anyway! And our EJ257 has a ton of TQ at 4K-4.5K so it's really not a problem.
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Old 10-21-2021, 09:11 AM   #303
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Thanks! All great information!
I've been repacking my bearings/CVJ's with high temperature grease. Are you doing that?
I've been very happy with the engine setup on my '08 STI. I've a Daily system sitting here and it's hard for me to justify putting it on the engine. I've now run around 62 hours on this engine and I regularly take it near 8K. Nothing unusual with oil temps. I frequently hit/sustain 1.3G's but only briefly get to 1.5 with the 285 Hoosier R7's.
It's coming apart in the coming week for a refresh, so stay tuned. On 10-18 I was out hammering it and I saw no signs of it pooping out!
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Old 10-21-2021, 03:03 PM   #304
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We've been using OEM CV axles on the STI, untouched unless a boot is failing. We're considering the DSS axles with the Road Race option. And have oem for spares. As you said, we should repack the oems with high temp grease. I am going to figure out a way to blow more air on the CV & Hub.
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Old 11-06-2021, 11:22 AM   #305
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Nice!!
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Old 11-30-2021, 04:49 PM   #306
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Default Cascade Enduro 8 Hour Video up!

We made this relatively short video of our experience at the Cascade 8 hour Enduro. Hope ya'll enjoy it!

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Old 12-01-2021, 11:40 AM   #307
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Nice..........
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Old 12-11-2021, 08:53 PM   #308
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Default PRI Reports 2021

I'm at PRI enjoying all the goodies and classes. I'm endeavoring to knock out reports on what I see. 3 will be video interviews, the rest random thoughts.
Here's the first two interviews up on my YouTube channel.

The new EBC Endurance Racing Pads:

The new Hawk Endurance racing Pads:
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Old 12-11-2021, 10:55 PM   #309
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Cool saw updates on Facebook. Thanks for sharing unable to make it this year due to #fcancer.
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Old 12-11-2021, 11:34 PM   #310
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Quote:
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Cool saw updates on Facebook. Thanks for sharing unable to make it this year due to #fcancer.
Sorry to hear that. I'll plan on having an adult beverage with you next year!
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Old 12-14-2021, 02:12 PM   #311
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Default PRI Post #4: Goodyear

PRI Post #4: Goodyear had their new DOT Radial Race Tire out front. A few cars at the recent SCCA Nationals were running them. I chatted with the tire compound engineer, he says the new tire is looking to be as fast as an A7 but the longevity of the R7. They have released several new sizes, including Wets.



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Old 12-29-2021, 08:04 AM   #312
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Subscribed.

I wasn’t even looking at tires at PRI but should have seen these.
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Old 01-08-2022, 06:21 AM   #313
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Congrats to you and the team Gator! Thank you for the video. Always nice to watch my old car still running strong.

Cheers!
Nick
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Old 03-23-2022, 02:29 PM   #314
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Default It's Spring, time for a Safety Refresh

I used to track a C6 Z06 at ORP. If you had told me 5 years ago that my Z06 could rollover and entirely crush in on the passenger side I would not have believed it. The Z06 has a factory oem roll hoop builtin that they claim exceeds the industry standard roll over protection by several times.

Looking at this pic of a C7 Z06 you'd think he must have been going 120+ mph. Nope, it lost control a little over 70 mph, probably by the time it actually rolled it was probably about 65mph.

There was a passenger in there, not an instructor, a friend. Luckily he was wearing the 3 point oem belt so he could bend over to the inside and avoid being crushed. His helmet took a a pretty good hit from the roof coming down on him, it's in the linked YouTube video.

This is why I won't instruct in a car that has race seats, 4-5-or 6 pt harness, but no roll cage or at least a stout roll bar. Harness bars don't count. The dirt at ORP is very similar to Willow Springs. It's soft and if you go off track sideways the wheels dig in and flip you.
And I won't instruct in a standard built 818C, R, or S. I'm too tall.



The Video:
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Old 03-23-2022, 02:56 PM   #315
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WOw! Glad to see everyone survived. It's hard to believe it collapsed like that.
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Old 04-19-2022, 05:21 PM   #316
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Default Dry Sump Update

I have a couple of big updates, first the dry sump:
The STI was still having oil heating issues if we revved over 6K at the Cascade Enduro. So we decided to up the game on the dry sump scavenge, and since I'm keeping both the STI and the 818R as close as possible the same configuration the 818R got it first. If this works we'll do the same to the STI soon.

We did away with the pump being driven by a serp belt off the crank damper at full crank speed. We switched to the normal HTD drive off an ATI damper (which means I have 2 x Fluidamper's for sale). We think this will finally cure the oil temp issue at high RPMs.
Going with an HTD drive means moving the pump towards the firewall just enough to allow room for a 4th scavenge section to fit in front the intake manifold, so we did that too! Now we have 2 x scavenges to the pan, and 1 x scavenge to each valve cover.
We also added a Spintric. The STI already has a Spintric.

So far on the dyno it's working great. We haven't been to a track test yet. Our first race of 2022 is coming up April 30th at Portland International. Retro Racing is *hopefully* going to be allowed across the border and they say they're bringing their 818R to the race, so I'm really looking forward to this. Even if they have 100+ more HP than mine!
Pics:



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Old 04-19-2022, 07:38 PM   #317
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So you had oil temp management issues so you added more scavenging?
What was the logic behind that?

What were your pulley ratios before and after the swap from serp to HTD?
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Old 04-20-2022, 12:48 AM   #318
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Homemade WRX View Post
So you had oil temp management issues so you added more scavenging?
What was the logic behind that?

What were your pulley ratios before and after the swap from serp to HTD?
i think he's saying that his scavenge pumps were running too fast and overheating his oil at high rpm. if he can evacuate the oil at the same rate with a lower pump speed he's putting less heat into the oil. Adding another stage helps balance out the loss of pump speed with the lower ratio.
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Old 04-20-2022, 02:29 PM   #319
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Homemade WRX View Post
So you had oil temp management issues so you added more scavenging?
What was the logic behind that?

What were your pulley ratios before and after the swap from serp to HTD?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Zefy View Post
i think he's saying that his scavenge pumps were running too fast and overheating his oil at high rpm. if he can evacuate the oil at the same rate with a lower pump speed he's putting less heat into the oil. Adding another stage helps balance out the loss of pump speed with the lower ratio.
The Serp belt driving the DS pump off the damper is at best 100% crank speed. And that's with the largest pulley on the DS pump that will fit. I think the original kit we got years ago was at 120% crank speed.
With the HTD drive it's at 60% crank speed. Which is typical of all the DS pump setups used in racing.
It was amazing to watch the oil temp change between shifting at 6500-6800 to shifting at 6,000. We could run all day at 6,000 and the oil stayed cool. If we pushed it to 6,700 in three laps it would soar to 260. IMHO it was cavitating and aerating the crap out of it.
As long as we had the extra space from moving the pump away from the intake manifold we used it to add a stage. Prior to this we had the 3rd stage split at a Y to both heads, now each head has it's own stage. Plenty of vacuum now, controlled with a Peterson Vacuum Regulator.
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Old 04-21-2022, 08:22 AM   #320
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Sgt. Gator,
this is all very interesting and enlightening. I have a Daley DS I've yet to use...

I hope the real test of your being on the track bears this out. I'm sure it will. Any interest or curiosity to try it without the Spintric? Or, do you feel the use of it on the STI has proven its worth?
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Old 04-21-2022, 01:23 PM   #321
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Scargod View Post
Sgt. Gator,
this is all very interesting and enlightening. I have a Daley DS I've yet to use...
I hope the real test of your being on the track bears this out. I'm sure it will. Any interest or curiosity to try it without the Spintric? Or, do you feel the use of it on the STI has proven its worth?
Hi Scargo,
I've spent plenty of time talking with Gary Armstrong on the phone and at PRI to be convinced of it's worth. So no, I'm not going to run tests without it. To do so would require fabbing up more AN lines.
BTW his new version has the Spintric inside his DS tank. Very cool. But not worth replacing my current tank. If I were building from scratch I'd get one of his tanks with the Spintric built in.

When are you going to get your 818 on track!?!
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Old 04-22-2022, 09:21 AM   #322
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I guess I'll have to contact them about the new in-tank design. I can't find any info about it or Spintric's standard DS tank* that ARE shows, (if you do a Google search there is a picture of one). I can't find anything on tanks on Spintric's site. Nothing on ARE's site.

*I'm assuming that the baffling and flow redirection on some tanks is superior to others... Did you look into a better tank at all in that regard?

As to my 818R, I have given it to my son to finish. He will be coming to get it soon. He is capable and has the time and energy. For me, I have downgraded my level of racing as other aspects of my life have required more of my time...
I have a new 2022 BRZ. I've done some brake, aero and suspension work for track day use. I'm hoping to be able to drive it to events and that it will be reliable. I've vowed to not touch the engine internally. I'm supposed to just drive it and have fun. It will get a little street use. I have a journal at FT86club.com
As to my 2008 STI track car, it's for sale. I'm trying to find time to get the engine refreshed. I had over 60 hours on it and felt like it was time. It has worked flawlessly for me without DS. I do have an Accusump, Peterson external oil pressure bypass valve and big Setrab cooler, bringing my oil capacity to almost nine quarts.
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Old 04-24-2022, 01:19 PM   #323
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Default Arcflash video 818R work in progress

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Old 04-29-2022, 01:15 AM   #324
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Scargod View Post
I guess I'll have to contact them about the new in-tank design. I can't find any info about it or Spintric's standard DS tank* that ARE shows, (if you do a Google search there is a picture of one). I can't find anything on tanks on Spintric's site. Nothing on ARE's site.

*I'm assuming that the baffling and flow redirection on some tanks is superior to others... Did you look into a better tank at all in that regard?
Yes I've looked at all the usual tanks. I have a Peterson in the STI, and an Aviaid in the 818R. I like the Aviaid and ARE the best.

I'm not sure why you can't find ARE Tanks: https://www.drysump.com/index.php/oil-tanks-vent-cans
But you are right, I don't see the integrated Spintric tank. Call him, he will be happy to sell you one.
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Old 04-29-2022, 01:40 AM   #325
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Default First Race this weekend at Portland International

The 818R isn't ready for prime time. Plus the weather looks like very cool and rain on Saturday so I'm taking my all weather fighter, the STI. It's in the same config as the Cascade Enduro from October, except I'm testing the new Goodyear Eagle DOT Race tires. They are really wide! Wider than even a Hoosier R7 of the same "size" 275/35/18.
At the Cascade I ran the low boost map since it was an 8 hour race. This weekend I'll be in 3 x Qualifying rounds, 2 x Sprint races in the SPM class, and 1 x 1Hour Mini Enduro. I'll be running the Medium Boost map for the races and possibly the High Boost map in qualifying. We'll see.....As usual I am praying for rain!
Feel free to come out to the track, it's no cost for spectators. Hope to see some of ya'll there.

BTW, the new Hawk ER-1 endurance pads were recalled for a materials problem, and the new EBC SR-11 & SR-21 endurance pads seem to be unavailable still.
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