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Old 08-31-2012, 03:11 PM   #1
BrandonDrums
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Default Rod Bearing Failure Nightmares/Stories (One thread to rule them all)

READ BEFORE YOU POST!

I first created this thread after experiencing a couple back to back rod-bearing failures due to some bad shop advice and work so I wanted to learn more about the problem to prevent future issues. The thread ended up taking off and has largely become the primary thread about this well-known and unfortunately 'notorious' Subaru issue.

This thread has been going for several years and through many expert contributors commenting and sharing we have lots of great information to help Turbo Subaru owners understand this issue. The thread is extremely long so in an effort to prevent some of the same questions being asked over and over I've made a synopsis for new visitors to read and/or be pointed to to catch them up on the main themes detailed out in the thread.

I will come back and make changes to this initial post sharing sources and quick links to discussions as time allows to further bolster this initial post. Some of the explanations are just high-level conceptual overviews meant for quick reading and aren't 100% accurate as a result.

Hopefully this synopsis will help future visitors understand the range of topics discussed in the thread without having to read the whole thing.

I feel strongly that the biggest contributor to these failures is the increased popularity and increased sales in general but also the increased rates in which these cars are modified. The WRX and STI are likely the highest-volume "Tuner" car besides the Mustang and perhaps the most likely vehicle to have power modifications to the engine both in hardware and ECU flashes. They've become extremely prolific and as a forced-induction engine are very effective in pulling more power out of the stock engine setup.

Regardless of modifications and tuning, these cars are driven hard by an enthusiastic community who push these cars to redline quite frequently and there are some 'weak points' from the factory that have made for some failure issues to come up both stock and modified as a result:

OIL:
For CAFE reasons, Subaru began recommending Resource Conserving 5w-30 oil in their turbo models around 2008 or so even though they didn't change the engine itself or cooling system to help the 'weaker' oil deal with the harsh conditions these engines often see in being driven hard or being lightly modded.

The manual used to clearly state that harsh driving conditions warranted a temporary fill of heavier weight oil and a lower oil change interval for Turbo Models through approximately 2006-2007. Subaru eventually removed those recommendations roughly around 2008 or so which surely has contributed to the number of Turbo Subaru drivers sticking with the inferior factory oil fill and elongated oil change intervals even after tracking their car, installing aftermarket tunes or simply driving around full throttle on a regular basis as so many trubo subaru drivers do.

There have been many reported cases where Subaru owners have been hassled, pushed and otherwise threatened to have their warranties voided if they didn't use the oil specified in the manual. Even in some cases the dealerships required the owner to have all of their oil changes performed at the dealership or have detailed receipts of the type of oil and the date and mileage of the oil change kept to honor any warranty claim. Unfortunately this is not legal and also bad advice as the dealerships do not understand that the oil being recommended is to achieve the best possible EPA numbers and doesn't provide the maximum protection for the engine under harsh driving conditions.

Tune:

1: Fuel
Over the years for the same CAFE/EPA pressures, Subaru has slowly changed the factory tune logic to also meet increasing fuel economy and emissions standards that leaves a little less safety margin for reducing knock when under harsh driving or using lower quality/octane fuel that is often attributed to some of the apparent increased failure rates since 2006. Increased Ring Land Failures also increased in this time period for the same reasons. These changes began in the later years of the GC chassis (reaching a peak in 07 through 09) but have been found to continue through even the current generation STI.

The main issue with the tune is the changeover from Closed-Loop to Open-Loop fueling has continually been delayed later in the RPM band and further into the throttle input range. In "Closed Loop" the ECU targets a specific air-fuel ratio - in this case STOIC which is the cleanest and most efficient fuel ratio but also the most lively and prone to knock.

**Closed Loop uses the O2 sensor to constantly check the exhaust stream to measure the effective Air-Fuel ratio and then applies learned and pre-determined corrections to the injectors to keep the fuel mixture on target.

**Open Loop is where the engine ignores sensor feedback and instead applies a set amount of fuel based on calculated intake volume, load, rpm, throttle %, boost levels etc. It's up to the accuracy of the tune to ensure that the targeted fuel ratios are met because the ECU does not apply automated changes to the fuel system to compensate for errors during Open Loop. From the factory, Open Loop fueling tables are typically quite safe for the engine but are being utilized less and less as more driving conditions are being addressed by a Closed Loop fueling strategy. Closed Loop is great for more advanced Direct Injection engines where the fuel can be controlled much more accurately without delay but for Port Injected engines can be a bit of an inexact science regardless of sensor accuracy or processing power.

2: Knock Correction:
Furthermore, some changes have been documented to the knock correction logic where the engines are allowing larger knock events before retarding timing or changing fueling conditions again in an effort to maximize fuel efficiency at the expense of more potential engine wear. The EJ series engine had not changed mechanically very much to deal with the higher potential stresses since 2004 in general and in some cases, issues with build quality and component quality have been found as production numbers increased.


Build Quality:
Overall:
There have both been production runs where faulty engine bearings and engine rings have been suspected to be used as well as runs where Subaru admittedly found defects and issued service bulletins (need to find more info to cite on this). Many engine builders have also found production runs where the tolerance range for Rod Bearing Clearances seemed to widen from the well-known .0014''-.0018'' to .0012''-.0018'' (citation also needed, Maxwell Power in this thread detailed out this scenario) which is independent of material defect but contributes to oiling issues under high-stress that can lead to failure.

While the mechanical issues appear to have been largely addressed starting towards the end of the GR model run (2012-2014 on) there are still many cars affected that are experiencing failures from what it seems.

Oil Pickup:
There have also been many recorded instanced where the Oil Pickup Tube has failed causing oil starvation to the engine. Popular aftermarket mods for rebuilt/built engines is a better pickup tube like a Killer-B which is a popular affordable brand.

Oil Pump:
Earlier EJ257 engines used a smaller 10mm oil pump but Subaru began using a 11mm oil pump in 2008. The actual reason for this increase is unknown but most likely is due to the addition of dual-avcs engines where a little more load on the oil system would be present from 2 more oil pressure actuated cam gears. Many engine builders use the larger 11mm pump even on single AVCS engines with the idea that better oil pressure can be sustained at higher RPM's. Opinions are mixed on whether larger oil pumps improve or exacerbate the issue at all but Rod Bearing failures are mostly an oil-related issue. Fear that too large an oil pump can cause more failures is due to over-pressurizing the oil and causing cavitation - bubbles from pressure and heat in a fluid.

Crankshaft:
Crankshaft Coatings: Subaru has gone through several renditions of crankshaft surface treatments that have limited data on how they truly impact bearing failure rates. Nitride Coated Crankshafts were used initially to replace the traditionally Polished Crankshafts and then later replaced by a Heat Treated Crankshafts from the factory (details and citation forthcoming). These treatments/coatings are intended to harden the crankshaft surface to prevent marring and scoring from metal to metal contact with the bearing surfaces. The only conclusive recommendation is that proper oil and bearing clearances are far more important than crankshaft coatings although many engine builders find that fresh treated crankshafts are more desierable in their builds.

Precautions:
  1. Ignore the manual and use a non resource-conserving _W-40 oil
    There are 0w-40, 5w-40 and 10w-40 oils well documented in this thread that perform very well in turbo Subaru engines. The most commonly found and popular oils are: Shell Rotella T6 5w-40, Mobile 1 Advanced Full Synthetic 0w-40 (DO NOT USE REGULAR OR GREEN CAP MOBILE 1), Pennzoil Ultra 0W-40 just to name a few with good data. The first number matters less than the 2nd number but if in doubt about trying an oil go for a thicker W weight like 10w-40 if you can't find the named oils above.
  2. Taking extra precaution to use fresh high-octane fuel
  3. Increasing oil change intervals in general but especially when driven hard.
  4. Avoiding prolonged runs at or near redline and WOT. If you drive heavy, change your oil more frequently and use better oil!!
  5. Avoiding out of the box staged tunes when you're unable to verify the 'health' of the tune via datalogging & wherewithal to make corrective changes
  6. Not installing aftermarket intake components without a proper tune as the accuracy of the MAF sensor's readings can be affected causing improper fuel ratios
  7. drive it like you bought it. These cars are fun but they are essentially CHEAP fun so don't expect them to pull racetrack duty out of the box like a supercar.

Rebuild Requirements:
If you need to rebuild after a rod-bearing failure, here's a list items to replace/clean/inspect to prevent future failures from oil contamination. These are the core essentials directly related to the failure. On any engine pull, additional wear items are usually recommended to replace out of convenience like clutch, timing belt and pulleys, water pump etc. but aren't listed here. Details on mods/part upgrades to further bolster against future failures are listed above and in the thread.
  • Oil pan, and oil pickup should be replaced, pan can be cleaned and re-used if on tight budget
  • Oil Cooler (on applicable models) MUST be replaced, it cannot be cleaned, ever.
  • Heads should be cleaned and inspected - oil galleries can house debris
  • On AVCS equipped models, AVCS gears should be inspected and cleaned, AVCS oil line from solenoid flushed and the cam's oil gallery for the AVCS gear should be flushed
  • Oil Pump usually needs to be replaced due to damage from debris, can be cleaned and re-used although not recommended
  • Turbo Oil Feed's screen filter on the Banjo bolt will need to be replaced, if you lack the filter, you need to flush or replace oil feed line to turbo and inspect turbo for debris
  • Shortblock needs to be completely rebuilt or replaced. Will add link to shortblock rebuild list at a later date.

Last edited by BrandonDrums; 02-28-2017 at 04:50 PM.
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Old 08-31-2012, 03:33 PM   #2
punchjamesarnol
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... Sorry to hear about your motor... Bummer man! I had mine fail on my stock '10 from ringland failure to finally seizeing the motor... I had her all rebuilt with the good stuff, the oil pump and all lines replaced as well. I'm barely over 3,000 miles and she is well broken in. Keeping my fingers crossed on this one.
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Old 09-04-2012, 10:22 AM   #3
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Thanks for the reply! Anyone else care to post their rod bearing failure story and post-rebuild success/problems?

Perhaps I should have put this thread in the General discussion since it's not specific to just 2.5's....
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Old 09-04-2012, 11:18 AM   #4
casaus19
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My brother just bought my 07 wrx from me, drove it about 250 miles missed a shift from 1-2 and then oil pressure dropped off, followed by this... take a listen

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Bh3U...eature=mh_lolz

Is this the sound of rod knock and eng failure?

(I just got back to nm and he lives in reno nv so there is no way for me to get up there and take a look at the car.)
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Old 09-04-2012, 11:42 AM   #5
BrandonDrums
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Quote:
Originally Posted by casaus19 View Post
My brother just bought my 07 wrx from me, drove it about 250 miles missed a shift from 1-2 and then oil pressure dropped off, followed by this... take a listen

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Bh3U...eature=mh_lolz

Is this the sound of rod knock and eng failure?

(I just got back to nm and he lives in reno nv so there is no way for me to get up there and take a look at the car.)
Yup, pretty much without a doubt a Rod Bearing Failure

I'm really sorry man, I highly recommend draining the oil to diagnose rather than running the engine any more. Just to prevent any flake from circulating around the engine any more than needed.

It's funny, a stall out was the last "abuse" event on my car before it spun a bearing. I let my uncle drive my car for a cruise. He's battling prostate cancer and he was telling me about his treatment so he wasn't paying attention. We pulled up to a stopsign after cruising in 5th and he stalled it out reaaaaallly bad. I was trying to tell him "Push in the clutch push in the clutch" but his mind was elsehwere, I had to pull the shifter hard to pull it out of gear but it was too late.

The engine made horrible noises while it stalled in top gear but it started right up and drove fine for a week. I don't know if it was that stall that caused the failure or if the engine builder who put in my last engine re-used the oil cooler from my last spun bearing or if I just abused the car to the point of failure on my own and I'll never know.

I just want to hear more from folks who've had a rod bearing failure and rebuilt to learn how long their rebuilds have lasted without problems after the fact because one of the builders I've talked to for fixing my current bearing issue said the chances of failure after spinning one rod bearing are extremely high unless you replace every single oil passage on the car, replace the entire longblock and even the turbo.
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Old 06-05-2017, 03:09 PM   #6
DariusWelds619
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Quote:
Originally Posted by punchjamesarnol View Post
... Sorry to hear about your motor... Bummer man! I had mine fail on my stock '10 from ringland failure to finally seizeing the motor... I had her all rebuilt with the good stuff, the oil pump and all lines replaced as well. I'm barely over 3,000 miles and she is well broken in. Keeping my fingers crossed on this one.

Okay, so its June 5th, 2017... I just picked up an 05 STi here in San Diego, with just under 68k miles. So I was driving to work and my co worker was following me, then i look at my speedometer and its twitching out, mind you this happend within seconds, i seen my speedometer spike up to 100+ then twitched around then i lost my braking, i couldnt brake, and it seemed like it just shut off out of nowhere. I had to pull my ebrake to stop and locked my rears just to stop and get it over to the side. The car had issues trying to kick over, when i got it towed home, i tried kicking it over again and it started but now i heard a squeaking noise that i didnt hear before, and then it kinda sounded like rubbing metal, and when i checked my oil since the oil light was on there was very fine specs of metal dust, about pin point sizes. Im just scared its something broke thats going to be waaay out of budget for me to fix. I just want someone from the community to tell me it they had this problem or know someone who has... i checked my timing belt and it seemed fine and i doubt its the battery or ignition switch. I cant really get the obd read yet but im trying to find a friend who has one that can help me out. I just hope i dont have a lemon, i need it to be a cheaper fix, i already have a tribeca b9 just sitting because of issues as well..... im just hoping someone has answers. Thanks. If you can, can you email me? [email protected], or IG: dariuswelds619... Help is appreciated.. i just need this car working. Thanks again.
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Old 09-04-2012, 02:32 PM   #7
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OP,
Did you install a new crankshaft with the second engine? or was it resurfaced?
Also what was the cause of the failure on that second engine??

*To add a note here,
Im a subaru certified tech, for warranty purposes we cant replace many of these parts like, oil pan, oil pump, oil cooler or any of the related lines. We are instructed to flush them and inspect the oil pump for damage. The oil pump can be completely stripped down, cleaned and inspected. If its scored or scratched in the pump housing then yes, it is to be replaced. Ive yet to ever have a engine come back with spun rod bearings for not replacing any of those parts. You just have to have the right parts cleaner and time to make sure it is 99% clean.

I have had 2 engine Ive built come back, but it was many miles later and in both cases they were on the track during the failure.

For built engines, oil clearances and other things cant be put to OE Spec tolerances or clearances for that matter or you will have failures. It takes lots of time and knowledge to get these things correct. I often have to have bran spakin new crankshafts sent out for machining! Yes even the Nitirde cranks are not good enough for me. Many get .005 thousandths removed to get my clearance right where i want it. I dont do this for warranty jobs, but I do for customers that want built engines.

Keep this in mind too, I NEVER trust machined crankshafts for over size bearings in a Performance application. They dont last!!!! New Nirtide cranks are only $325..... Turned/machined cranks after a bearing failure are just worthless and youre asking for it to happen again very soon. Ive got a pile of cranks here going to the scrap yard. Many are saveable for turning but I just dont risk it anymore.

Last edited by UK-Wagon; 09-04-2012 at 02:46 PM.
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Old 09-04-2012, 03:27 PM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by UK-Wagon View Post
OP,
Did you install a new crankshaft with the second engine? or was it resurfaced?
Also what was the cause of the failure on that second engine??

*To add a note here,
Im a subaru certified tech, for warranty purposes we cant replace many of these parts like, oil pan, oil pump, oil cooler or any of the related lines. We are instructed to flush them and inspect the oil pump for damage. The oil pump can be completely stripped down, cleaned and inspected. If its scored or scratched in the pump housing then yes, it is to be replaced. Ive yet to ever have a engine come back with spun rod bearings for not replacing any of those parts. You just have to have the right parts cleaner and time to make sure it is 99% clean.

I have had 2 engine Ive built come back, but it was many miles later and in both cases they were on the track during the failure.

For built engines, oil clearances and other things cant be put to OE Spec tolerances or clearances for that matter or you will have failures. It takes lots of time and knowledge to get these things correct. I often have to have bran spakin new crankshafts sent out for machining! Yes even the Nitirde cranks are not good enough for me. Many get .005 thousandths removed to get my clearance right where i want it. I dont do this for warranty jobs, but I do for customers that want built engines.

Keep this in mind too, I NEVER trust machined crankshafts for over size bearings in a Performance application. They dont last!!!! New Nirtide cranks are only $325..... Turned/machined cranks after a bearing failure are just worthless and youre asking for it to happen again very soon. Ive got a pile of cranks here going to the scrap yard. Many are saveable for turning but I just dont risk it anymore.
Humm, that's an interesting take. So you machine brand new crankshafts thusly removing the Nitride coating that makes them supposedly superior but if they've had a failure you toss them out? From what I know about machining, you get crap everywhere on the part itself by machining it just like you do during a failure so there should be zero difference in reliability between a re-machined crankshaft from a bearing failure and a brand new crankshaft that you've machined to meet a specific tolerance unless you aren't checking the re-used cranks for straightness etc.

I also seem to understand that those new OEM bearings used on the nitrite cranks are so much more dangerous than the old lead filled bearings during a failure and here in the states I don't know if Subaru has the same flush and re-use protocol for warranty repairs because of it. A shard small enough to get past the pickup screen and through every oil passage in the car is still hard enough to mar and damage a bearing now. Those old ones were much softer and didn't pose as much of a threat if they were small enough to get past the pickup tube every once in a while from what I understand.

To answer your question about my 2nd engine, I think the rods block and heads were original, the crank and the pistons were brand new. The block was bored due to scoring from the blown ringland by .002'' in each cylinder and .002'' cold-gap was used to fit weisco forged pistons and rings.

ACL bearings matched to OEM clearances for the rods and mains were used and the heads were checked for leaks, resurfaced and re-used.

Here's where it gets fuzzy, the oil cooler was used but I don't know if it came from the 2.5 w/ the ringland failure or from my 2.0 with the bearing failure. Judging by the picture, it's certainly used although I was never told explicitly if it was used or not.

You can tell, the oil cooler in this pic is used. By which engine, who knows.


The only thing I've been told by that shop was that "a couple of years ago we never replaced the oil coolers on rod bearing failed engines, we'd just clean them out like crazy but we kept getting those engines back with new failures over and over so now we just replace it" They did my build "a couple of years ago" in Nov of 2010.

That's not the point though, my engine was put through hell through it's relatively short life. The first tune on it was absolute crap and the street tune that replaced that first tune turned out to knock around 3200 rpm a whole lot when I bought a laptop and started to log and peek at learningview. For 4 months it had been knocking and learning view was a nice little hodgepodge of 5-10 degrees of learned timing retard, namely from .7-1.10 g/s of load at 2600-3400rpm. THAT'S when I decided to learn how to tune myself which lead to other abuses.

Last edited by BrandonDrums; 03-01-2016 at 05:27 PM.
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Old 09-06-2012, 02:43 PM   #9
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no more failure and rebuild stories?
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Old 11-18-2012, 09:10 PM   #10
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Default my short story

Hi, I'm new here and this is my first post/reply. I've been an ASE certified master tech for a few years now. I have rebuilt 3 1/2 air cooled porsche 911 engines and I'm in the process of rebuilding #2 &3 water cooled porsche engines. I bought an 02 wrx wagon (my favorite) off of craigslist for $2200. Yes, it was knocking, but besides some hail damage it was in really good condition. So, i pulled the engine and found the number 4 connecting rod bearing had spun. This car has 173k on the original engine, so i guess it was about due. It had wiped out the crankshaft, so i bought a brand new one from the local dealer along with one connecting rod. I have no plans on building lots of horsepower, so the stock will do. Had the connecting rods sized and will be balancing the pistons and then the assemblies. I have ported and polished the turbo, turbine and compressor side, will be pnp-ing the heads, intake, tumble flap housings, exhaust pipes, throttle body, and anything else that looks like it needs it. I want to do this once, and so any advice on fault proofing would be appreciated. I will post updates on progress and how its doing after.
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Old 12-13-2012, 07:23 PM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by UK-Wagon View Post
OP,
Did you install a new crankshaft with the second engine? or was it resurfaced?
Also what was the cause of the failure on that second engine??

*To add a note here,
Im a subaru certified tech, for warranty purposes we cant replace many of these parts like, oil pan, oil pump, oil cooler or any of the related lines. We are instructed to flush them and inspect the oil pump for damage. The oil pump can be completely stripped down, cleaned and inspected. If its scored or scratched in the pump housing then yes, it is to be replaced. Ive yet to ever have a engine come back with spun rod bearings for not replacing any of those parts. You just have to have the right parts cleaner and time to make sure it is 99% clean.

I have had 2 engine Ive built come back, but it was many miles later and in both cases they were on the track during the failure.

For built engines, oil clearances and other things cant be put to OE Spec tolerances or clearances for that matter or you will have failures. It takes lots of time and knowledge to get these things correct. I often have to have bran spakin new crankshafts sent out for machining! Yes even the Nitirde cranks are not good enough for me. Many get .005 thousandths removed to get my clearance right where i want it. I dont do this for warranty jobs, but I do for customers that want built engines.

Keep this in mind too, I NEVER trust machined crankshafts for over size bearings in a Performance application. They dont last!!!! New Nirtide cranks are only $325..... Turned/machined cranks after a bearing failure are just worthless and youre asking for it to happen again very soon. Ive got a pile of cranks here going to the scrap yard. Many are saveable for turning but I just dont risk it anymore.
How do you guys clean out the oil cooler? I've argued that it can be cleaned with a combo of higher pressure and super sonic cleaning with degrease. After a thorough cleaning, I was still able to shake particles out ...
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Old 03-27-2018, 12:54 PM   #12
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Hello Sir,
I have a 2013 wrx 2.5L hatch/zero mods and 57,000 miles on it. I bought it from the dealer used at 30,000 miles. I took mine in for service recently due to a loud knocking that starts around 2200rpms. Unfortunately, i believe the previous owner (assuming 16 y/o tuner kid) tore the **** out of it, because I've had to replace the clutch at about 44,000. I should have said something when i bought it, but the clutch pedal was so tight (maybe by the dealer) that i thought maybe it's just a newer clutch and that's the reason it was so long and didn't engage til the floor. However, this was my first Sub, and each manufacturer has different clutches. Either way, I purchased the extended warranty which thus far has not helped in any way. I'm a little worried that it may be the case with this as well. Took it to the dealer for service and they said it's going to be about a week. I love my Sub and i baby the crap out of it. Since your a cert Sub tech I'm wondering your opinions. have you seen these types of things before? Is this something that's generally covered under warranty? I'm a nuub, and I don't want to say something that the dealers will take advantage of, and rape me.
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Old 03-29-2018, 03:33 PM   #13
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Rod bearing failed in my 2014 at 30K miles. All stock and religious dealer maintenance. Rebuild was covered under drivetrain warranty. Research I've done indicates this issue is due to poor design and may happen again. Minty 2014 WRX premium wagon going up for sale in the Chi-land area this spring. I'm not gambling on a ~$6K repair out of warranty.
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Old 04-09-2018, 03:55 PM   #14
BrandonDrums
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jhullmusic View Post
Hello Sir,
I have a 2013 wrx 2.5L hatch/zero mods and 57,000 miles on it. I bought it from the dealer used at 30,000 miles. I took mine in for service recently due to a loud knocking that starts around 2200rpms. Unfortunately, i believe the previous owner (assuming 16 y/o tuner kid) tore the **** out of it, because I've had to replace the clutch at about 44,000. I should have said something when i bought it, but the clutch pedal was so tight (maybe by the dealer) that i thought maybe it's just a newer clutch and that's the reason it was so long and didn't engage til the floor. However, this was my first Sub, and each manufacturer has different clutches. Either way, I purchased the extended warranty which thus far has not helped in any way. I'm a little worried that it may be the case with this as well. Took it to the dealer for service and they said it's going to be about a week. I love my Sub and i baby the crap out of it. Since your a cert Sub tech I'm wondering your opinions. have you seen these types of things before? Is this something that's generally covered under warranty? I'm a nuub, and I don't want to say something that the dealers will take advantage of, and rape me.
Sorry, I'm not a tech...perhaps someone else is here though, I'm sure there is so perhaps you're referencing them.

That being said, just play dumb about whatever you might think about the previous owner...You didn't buy a car from that person whoever they might be. You bought a car FROM a dealershop that was checked out by the dealer and given an extended warranty you paid good money for FROM subaru. Who cares who the previous owner is, the point of buying from a dealer and getting a warranty means none of that is your problem.

YOU drive the car like a responsible adult and they, as responsible adults and businesspeople should honor their warranty plain and simple. If they sold you a car AND a warranty and somehow are now claiming it had issues from the previous owner that you have to pay for they are breaking the law. They should have paid for the clutch IMO (allthough that is a wear item) and they absolutely will have to pay for the engine which is NOT a wear item. If they try to claim the previous kid damaged it, get a lawyer and sue them for the repair or a full refund plus legal fees. Not kidding.

There's actually tons of information about lemon laws and how to file complaints. There are even more attorneys that deal with this stuff in your area.
https://oag.ca.gov/consumers/general/cars

Read your extended warranty, if they somehow snuck in a section where items damaged before you purchased the car would not be covered they might try to wiggle out of it. But selling a car with a damaged engine isn't legal and the type of failure doesn't take 27,000 miles to manifest once damage occurs, on both grounds you should be prepared to push back. If they try to wiggle out of it I'd say it's worth 1-2k to lawyer up and sue for the repair of the vehicle and hope you can get legal costs out of them too. But 1-2k for a full rebuild is better than you spending the 6-7k they'll likely charge after tax.

In short, you should 100% be covered and even if they fight you, have the confidence to know you're in the right this time.

Last edited by BrandonDrums; 04-09-2018 at 04:14 PM.
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Old 05-11-2018, 02:47 PM   #15
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Pulled a broken piston out of one of the extended family's two stock LGTs a bit ago...

Just today, the other LGT has left my brother's wife and 2 year old on the side of the highway, 100 miles from home. Big bottom end failure, stock engine it's whole life, full of oil (owned by a mechanic).

Subaru has lost the following of a large/once loyal following with these POSs.

I'll be sure the door hits me on the way out.
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Old 05-11-2018, 02:53 PM   #16
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Pulled a broken piston out of one of the extended family's two stock LGTs a bit ago...

Just today, the other LGT has left my brother's wife and 2 year old on the side of the highway, 100 miles from home. Big bottom end failure, stock engine it's whole life, full of oil (owned by a mechanic).

Subaru has lost the following of a large/once loyal following with these POSs.

I'll be sure the door hits me on the way out.
I bet the pickup broke.
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Old 11-19-2012, 02:38 PM   #17
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I myself have been blessed with a wonderful rod failure also. I orginally cracked a ringland on piston 4 when running the car with a Stage 2 setup. I then bought a used but new short block that spun a rod only 3k miles later. This time around I built a completely new long block with all forged internals. Currently have 2500 miles on the setup and 415whp
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Old 11-19-2012, 03:06 PM   #18
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I myself have been blessed with a wonderful rod failure also. I orginally cracked a ringland on piston 4 when running the car with a Stage 2 setup. I then bought a used but new short block that spun a rod only 3k miles later. This time around I built a completely new long block with all forged internals. Currently have 2500 miles on the setup and 415whp
Oh jeez, that's tough stuff. What do you think caused the bearing failure so quick? Was it a cracked oil feed tube or debris in the oil system or perhaps just a improperly assembled block?

I'm trying to see what the average life of a repair is after a failure. Some say repeat failure is imminent if you don't change out every single oil related component. Not just the oil cooler but oil feed lines, oil pump, avcs oil passages and cam pulley actuators, oil pan and pickup tube.

I'd like to hear of someone getting over 100k miles after a rod-bearing failure repair that wasn't just a longblock swap.
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Old 11-20-2012, 09:47 PM   #19
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Oh jeez, that's tough stuff. What do you think caused the bearing failure so quick? Was it a cracked oil feed tube or debris in the oil system or perhaps just a improperly assembled block?

I'm trying to see what the average life of a repair is after a failure. Some say repeat failure is imminent if you don't change out every single oil related component. Not just the oil cooler but oil feed lines, oil pump, avcs oil passages and cam pulley actuators, oil pan and pickup tube.

I'd like to hear of someone getting over 100k miles after a rod-bearing failure repair that wasn't just a longblock swap.
I am in the midst of a build on my 07 Limited due to rod bearing failure (or what I suspect to be)...car has 66K miles on it and has been Stage II (Cobb custom 20 psi tune, CAI, Cattless TBE, APS DR525 FMIC) since 5K miles old.

I ran into an unknown low oil situation due to blow-by combined with a hard downshift caused the failure. I've yet to pull the motor apart but all signs point to a rod bearing. The car ran and drove after the "incident" but had a strong rattling sound.

I got a old but brand new 2010 shortblock from a local rally team with the nitrided crank and a local shop is installing standard bore Mahle's. I wasn't considering replacing the entire lubrication system other than the oil pump, but I too would like to see mileage numbers from members who've reused oil pickups (already have the Killer Bee, along with the windage tray), and the topend parts mentioned.
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Old 11-21-2012, 09:27 AM   #20
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I understand the importance of cleaning and/or replacing the oil pump, oil cooler, etc. when rebuilding a motor with a spun rod bearing, but the fact is almost all spun rod bearings are due to incorrect clearance, heat expansion, or oil starvation; not a piece of debris in the oil getting in between the clearance area . Flame suit on, but it's just a fact.

I've taken apart a many a spun rod bearing motor, ones that were ran a good while after the initial failure. The other surviving bearings did have scuff marks from the debris in the oil, but none ever spun due to the debris.
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Old 11-21-2012, 05:21 PM   #21
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I understand the importance of cleaning and/or replacing the oil pump, oil cooler, etc. when rebuilding a motor with a spun rod bearing, but the fact is almost all spun rod bearings are due to incorrect clearance, heat expansion, or oil starvation; not a piece of debris in the oil getting in between the clearance area . Flame suit on, but it's just a fact.

I've taken apart a many a spun rod bearing motor, ones that were ran a good while after the initial failure. The other surviving bearings did have scuff marks from the debris in the oil, but none ever spun due to the debris.

the VERY VAST MAJORITY of spun bearings comes from metal to metal contact due to the WRONG OIL BEING USED

this wrong oil shears piss thin and is consumed by the engine through the pcv system...THIS causes knock....the knock then pushes the metal parts together through the sheared oil film in the bearings..

and p0p goes the bearing

all done

the MORAL of this story is this:

USE GOOD OIL THAT WONT SHEAR AND BE CONSUMED AND YOUR ENGINE WILL LAST A LOT LONGER
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Old 11-21-2012, 05:16 PM   #22
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never.....NEVER re-use the oil cooler

and NEVER use any 5w30 oil
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Old 11-22-2012, 08:37 PM   #23
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never.....NEVER re-use the oil cooler

and NEVER use any 5w30 oil
On any wrx?? new motor or used/rebuilt??? In winter and summer??
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Old 11-22-2012, 09:13 PM   #24
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On any wrx?? new motor or used/rebuilt??? In winter and summer??

d00000000000000d....there are SO MANY GOOD oil choices out there that dont involve any 5w30 oil

read...learn...read some more....keep reading until yer eyes bleed

then ya see where im comin from.....a couple of these NEW 'SN' 5w30 oils MAY prove to be OK...but im still not drinkin any of that k00l-aid....not yet

and all of what you are thinkin, above, can be easily handled by something other than a 5w30
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Old 11-26-2012, 09:49 PM   #25
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We specialize in high end foreign cars, mostly benz, BMW, and Porsche and we use either 10w30 motul or 5w30 LiquiMoly, both fully synthetic. It seems to be really good oil, and it meets the warranty spec for those guys, but i always like to get other peoples take on hard to quantify stuff like oil. A lot of people have opinions about oil and like the saying goes, most of them stink. So, any facts, numbers, personal experience would be great. Both my 230k toyota and 240k Tahoe use the sybthetic stuff and run great with it.
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