Does anyone make cams for the 2.2L

cybin · 11-29-2003, 02:00 AM

Just wondering if anyone has heard of a company making cams for the 2.2L?

Stateside I'm guessing no but I'm hoping that some overseas company might have made one.

-cybin

* Registered users of the site do not see these ads.

NotAnRS · 11-29-2003, 08:24 AM

I'm wondering why 2.5 cams wouldn't work?

cybin · 11-29-2003, 04:05 PM

Did they make a SOHC 2.5L?

Charlie-III · 11-29-2003, 04:13 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by cybin
Did they make a SOHC 2.5L?

Yup, about 1999 or 2000 they switched to SOHC.

Could you use 2.5L cams?, good question but I would doubt it. But I never looked either.

C17LOAD · 11-29-2003, 06:49 PM

why not? I have been told by a couple of shops that the "Phase II" EJ22 cams should be interchangeable with the SOHC EJ25. Not an expert though, just what I heard.

Tim Sanderson · 11-29-2003, 08:10 PM

My 00' rs manuals show that the thrust clearance, journal, and oil clearances are all the same.

The only difference is that the intake lobes are nominally
38mm 2200litre
39mm 2500litre
and the exhaust are the same on both at
39mm nominal

So I think you could use 2.5 litre cams in a 2.2 litre phase 2 head. I suppose you could even use stock cams even though you would only gain about 1mm of lift.

Good luck

cybin · 11-29-2003, 11:10 PM

1mm of extra lift on the intake side might make some differance. Subaru makes so many parts the same, it makes one wonder.

I mean for the 2.2L you have just about everything, intake, headers, exhaust, Chip, pullys, ect. Only thing holding the 2.2L back is a set of descent cams or higher compression.

I wonder if bulkers/gude would be willing to develop a mild cam? I guessing it would have to be a regrind since milling a brand new one would be costly. Maybe we should get a group buy together.

-Cybin

Tim Sanderson · 11-29-2003, 11:19 PM

If the stock 2.5 cams fit the 2.2 then aftermarket 2.5 cams should fit as well. The problem lies in the exhaust port. The my 00' 2.2 heads are single exhaust port heads. A better solution would be to swap heads with a 2.5. Then you can be sure of cam fitment. But then why go through the hassle of just heads when a complete engine would probably be about the same cost. The ecu harness and ecu may not fit/work so you would be looking at upgrading those as well. But if you just do a head swap, you are still looking at a good amount of gaskets to replace. And headers.

Tough call. Good luck

cybin · 11-30-2003, 05:28 AM

What would the 2.5L heads on a 2.2L block do to the compression ratio? I'm also wondering about valve clearance.

Has anyone done this swap?

-cybin

Tim Sanderson · 11-30-2003, 11:33 AM

It should not alter the compression. The only differences between the n.a. 2.2 and the n.a. 2.5 are the bore and stroke. Otherwise I think the manual would specify examples of each for service.
Same valves
same rocker assembly
same springs

I would hope that someone could either confirm or deny this. The only differences are the cams and the single exhaust port. But, All I'm doing is looking in the manual. I'm not actually looking at the two and comparing them side by side.

Matt Monson · 11-30-2003, 01:32 PM

Whether or not it changes compression depends on how much volume of the combustion chamber there is in the two different heads. Without taking some measurements or talking to someone who has done this there is no way to tell for sure. I have been told that the SOHC EJ25 heads have less volume than the DOHC EJ25 heads, but as for where the EJ22's sit in there is unknown to me. I know there are a couple people running around with what they call EJ2.25's. I will see what I can dig up and post back, eventually...

Legacy777 · 11-30-2003, 04:03 PM

I suggest you guys do some more homework on the head swapping. It will make a difference and change compression ratios.

http://forums.nasioc.com/forums/show...ion+ratio+EJ22
http://forums.nasioc.com/forums/show...ion+ratio+EJ22

cybin · 11-30-2003, 07:18 PM

I want to keep this simple. No turbo or switching ecu. (unless it's plug and pray, I mean play)

I'd like to stay with SOHC since I think you'll need to swap the ECU to go with DOHC. Staying SOHC will also keep the single exhaust port.

Options as I see it:

Get some cams from a 2.5L SOHC to fit the SOHC 2.2L in my OBS. Previous threads suggest differances in hydralic verse roller rocker valve trains.

Swap a 2.5L SOHC head onto the 2.2L block. How this will effect compression ratio and head flow? I don't know. Would the valves even clear the piston? Would the computer freak out?

I'm really hoping to find an easy way to gain 10hp or so. Nothing huge just a little pull.

-Cybin

Legacy777 · 11-30-2003, 08:47 PM

cybin,

there's quite a bit of misinformation in this thread, as well as a lack of specific information on your part as to specifics on your car/setup, etc.

All 2.5 motors have dual exhaust port heads.

The newer 2.2 liter motors (~95 and newer) are the only ones that have the single exhaust port heads.

Roller rockers can be swapped around between heads.

cybin · 11-30-2003, 09:20 PM

1997 Outback Sport 2.2L 5sp

Pretty sure I have an EJ22 SOHC with a MAF.

Goals for my car are modest. I'm going to be traveling so no engine/ecu swaps and no parts that are not better then stock. Would like a little more grunt. 30HP added tops.

1 Lucky Texan · 11-30-2003, 10:24 PM

As I understand those threads posted by Josh - putting EJ25 heads on an EJ22 will LOWER CR. That might be OK if you're gonna and forced induction but otherwise I can't see an advantage.

maybe I'm wrong. anyone?

Legacy777 · 11-30-2003, 10:44 PM

As I said before, read the threads I posted, there's some very good info in there.

lucky texan, you're correct in your diagnosis.

cybin,

What'd I'd probably recommend is not bother with a head swap. Per the threads I posted....putting EJ25 heads on will lower CR, which you don't want to do. Other option is the older style EJ22 heads with dual exhaust ports, but that will give you smaller valves....again you don't want to do.

So that leaves you the option to stick with your current heads.

I'm not sure if your model came with roller rockers. They can be had from around the 95-96 legacy 2.2's....so maybe yours has them. If you don't have, I'd suggest them. As for cam....you can get custom grinds on cams by paeco, or maybe cobb has something they can do. Other thing you can do to heads if have them ported and polished.

I suppose with the porting & polishing, cams, & roller rockers, you may be able to get 30 additional hp....depending on how you set the cam up.

That would be my suggestion for what you should look into.

I trust the guys that posted the info about swapping the heads & what will happen to CR, so I wouldn't bother with any of that.

josh

Slack · 11-30-2003, 11:26 PM

Josh, it seems like you aren't quite answering what cybin is asking. He wants to swap the CAMS not the heads from the SOHC 2.5 . What I'm wondering is if you could get the cams from any later model subaru with the P2 SOHC 2.5: Forester, Legacy or RS? There are a lot more Legacy's than RS's, so it would be easier to obtain the cams from those cars. Correct me if I'm wrong, but we are just looking for modest gains with the least amount of work and/or money spent.

<ocl

Tim Sanderson · 11-30-2003, 11:41 PM

Well I am sorry of Any of the info I posted is incorrect. Again I am refering to the service manuals for 2000 model year only.

cybin · 11-30-2003, 11:53 PM

So wait, there is a newer 2.5L SOHC engine?

My referance for 30hp is with headers, intake, bla, bla. So I guess I'm only looking to get 10hp from the cams. Another thing I'm not taking into account, is that I'm probably going to have to pull the motor anyway to replace the cams. So maybe swapping head won't be so much more. I'm still thinking in inline terms.

Anyway thanks for all the help to everyone. I'm happy to see so much support on these boards.

-Cybin

Legacy777 · 12-01-2003, 09:45 AM

I'm sorry, I must have misread the info about just the cams. I was figuring he'd have to pull the heads anyway....

I don't know the cam profiles on the SOHC EJ25 motors, so I couldn't tell you if or how much gains you would see by swapping stock cams into the EJ22. I would think they would probably work fine, but I would recommend talking to some tuners to verify that.

linsavy · 12-01-2003, 09:47 PM

Cybin,
Why not just swap the whole engine for a DOHC 2.5l from a 1997 to1999 Legacy. Get the ECU too. It is plug and play. Go read up in the Conversions forum. Figure $1500 for a good engine and ECU and a few bucks of labour.
Its been done. Your ECU will run it too but the idle will not be great.

Tim Sanderson · 12-02-2003, 12:43 AM

The point of the thread was whether or not 2.5 litre cams would fit into 2.2 litre heads. Yours is a good suggestion, but not the kind of info he was looking for.

cybin · 12-02-2003, 05:26 AM

I'm trying really hard to avoid a engine swap. I've done them and the cars never quite seem the same. Most run really well, but it's just not the same after. I want to take this car for an extened road trip. Like from wisconsin to alaska to Portland, OR then to San Deigo then home. So I'd like not to have to explain to some backwoods mechanic that the engine is from a legacy but the car is an impreza. Ect. ect.

I'm going to do some searches but does anyone know of a good company making SOHC 2.5L cams. If any?

1 Lucky Texan · 12-02-2003, 08:37 AM

Try expanding your search to include the archives at www.usmb.net and check www.obsportal.com

You will find there is just not much left in the 2.2l that Subaru isn't already getting out of it. Lighter pulleys, some say, are good for up to 9 more ponies. intake and exhaust may only get a few more ponies. Lighter flywheel might help. Higher lift/greater duration cams may yield a few ponies but the idle may be crap, the fuel economy might suffer, you could get close to needing a piston swap for clearance issues. More grunt down low and better handling could come with just smaller tires. So what if the speedo and odo are off a few percent.

I've read a LOT about the 2.2l as I am shopping for an older OBS and there really isn't anything for it short of forced induction, or nitrous. "Spend the money on pulleys, lighter flywheels, tires, rear anti-sway bar, maybe some KYB adjustable struts." That's the 'mantra' you will get. Sad

11-29-2003, 02:00 AM	#1
cybin Scooby Newbie Member#: 48667 Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: GB, WI	Does anyone make cams for the 2.2L Just wondering if anyone has heard of a company making cams for the 2.2L? Stateside I'm guessing no but I'm hoping that some overseas company might have made one. -cybin * Registered users of the site do not see these ads.

Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Email this Page
Display Modes
Linear Mode Switch to Hybrid Mode Switch to Threaded Mode

Similar Threads
Thread	Thread Starter	Forum	Replies	Last Post
Does anyone make dampers for the 08 WRX (and soon to be 09)?	BIGSKYWRX	Brakes, Steering & Suspension	51	02-17-2010 08:42 PM
Does anyone make projectors for the 2005 STi's	sti.2005.blk	Interior & Exterior Modification	10	12-23-2007 11:18 AM
TWE cams for the 2.2L ?	99subi	Normally Aspirated Powertrain	18	04-08-2005 01:00 PM
Does HKS make cams for the WRX?	chopaholix	Factory 2.0L Turbo Powertrain (EJ Series Factory 2.0L Turbo)	4	05-30-2004 09:11 AM
Does MRT make springs for the 2.5RS?	JC	Brakes, Steering & Suspension	1	08-12-2001 12:20 AM

11-29-2003, 08:24 AM	#2
NotAnRS Scooby Specialist Member#: 1004 Join Date: Mar 2000 Chapter/Region: MAIC Location: Elizabethtown, PA Vehicle: 2002 Forester L Scratch-n-Dent Blue	I'm wondering why 2.5 cams wouldn't work?

11-29-2003, 04:05 PM	#3
cybin Scooby Newbie Member#: 48667 Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: GB, WI	Did they make a SOHC 2.5L?

11-29-2003, 06:49 PM	#5
C17LOAD Scooby Specialist Member#: 25488 Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Dela...where? Vehicle: 2005 Impreza WRX STi "Petter Solberg Edition"	why not? I have been told by a couple of shops that the "Phase II" EJ22 cams should be interchangeable with the SOHC EJ25. Not an expert though, just what I heard.

11-29-2003, 08:10 PM	#6
Tim Sanderson Scooby Guru Member#: 6486 Join Date: May 2001 Chapter/Region: MWSOC Location: S.E. wisconsin Vehicle: 00 Impreza 2.5 RS Blue Ridge Pearl	My 00' rs manuals show that the thrust clearance, journal, and oil clearances are all the same. The only difference is that the intake lobes are nominally 38mm 2200litre 39mm 2500litre and the exhaust are the same on both at 39mm nominal So I think you could use 2.5 litre cams in a 2.2 litre phase 2 head. I suppose you could even use stock cams even though you would only gain about 1mm of lift. Good luck

11-29-2003, 11:10 PM	#7
cybin Scooby Newbie Member#: 48667 Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: GB, WI	1mm of extra lift on the intake side might make some differance. Subaru makes so many parts the same, it makes one wonder. I mean for the 2.2L you have just about everything, intake, headers, exhaust, Chip, pullys, ect. Only thing holding the 2.2L back is a set of descent cams or higher compression. I wonder if bulkers/gude would be willing to develop a mild cam? I guessing it would have to be a regrind since milling a brand new one would be costly. Maybe we should get a group buy together. -Cybin

11-29-2003, 11:19 PM	#8
Tim Sanderson Scooby Guru Member#: 6486 Join Date: May 2001 Chapter/Region: MWSOC Location: S.E. wisconsin Vehicle: 00 Impreza 2.5 RS Blue Ridge Pearl	If the stock 2.5 cams fit the 2.2 then aftermarket 2.5 cams should fit as well. The problem lies in the exhaust port. The my 00' 2.2 heads are single exhaust port heads. A better solution would be to swap heads with a 2.5. Then you can be sure of cam fitment. But then why go through the hassle of just heads when a complete engine would probably be about the same cost. The ecu harness and ecu may not fit/work so you would be looking at upgrading those as well. But if you just do a head swap, you are still looking at a good amount of gaskets to replace. And headers. Tough call. Good luck

11-30-2003, 05:28 AM	#9
cybin Scooby Newbie Member#: 48667 Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: GB, WI	What would the 2.5L heads on a 2.2L block do to the compression ratio? I'm also wondering about valve clearance. Has anyone done this swap? -cybin

11-30-2003, 11:33 AM	#10
Tim Sanderson Scooby Guru Member#: 6486 Join Date: May 2001 Chapter/Region: MWSOC Location: S.E. wisconsin Vehicle: 00 Impreza 2.5 RS Blue Ridge Pearl	It should not alter the compression. The only differences between the n.a. 2.2 and the n.a. 2.5 are the bore and stroke. Otherwise I think the manual would specify examples of each for service. Same valves same rocker assembly same springs I would hope that someone could either confirm or deny this. The only differences are the cams and the single exhaust port. But, All I'm doing is looking in the manual. I'm not actually looking at the two and comparing them side by side.

11-30-2003, 01:32 PM	#11
Matt Monson Scooby Guru Member#: 832 Join Date: Jan 2000 Chapter/Region: RMIC Location: Teh Ghetto Garage, CO Vehicle: 99 2.5RS, '85 911 '73 914 and 2012 BRZ	Whether or not it changes compression depends on how much volume of the combustion chamber there is in the two different heads. Without taking some measurements or talking to someone who has done this there is no way to tell for sure. I have been told that the SOHC EJ25 heads have less volume than the DOHC EJ25 heads, but as for where the EJ22's sit in there is unknown to me. I know there are a couple people running around with what they call EJ2.25's. I will see what I can dig up and post back, eventually...

11-30-2003, 04:03 PM	#12
Legacy777 Scooby Guru Member#: 4800 Join Date: Mar 2001 Chapter/Region: TXIC Location: Houston, Tx Vehicle: 1990 Legacy & OB XT AWD 6MT EJ22T AWIC Swap	I suggest you guys do some more homework on the head swapping. It will make a difference and change compression ratios. http://forums.nasioc.com/forums/show...ion+ratio+EJ22 http://forums.nasioc.com/forums/show...ion+ratio+EJ22

11-30-2003, 07:18 PM	#13
cybin Scooby Newbie Member#: 48667 Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: GB, WI	I want to keep this simple. No turbo or switching ecu. (unless it's plug and pray, I mean play) I'd like to stay with SOHC since I think you'll need to swap the ECU to go with DOHC. Staying SOHC will also keep the single exhaust port. Options as I see it: Get some cams from a 2.5L SOHC to fit the SOHC 2.2L in my OBS. Previous threads suggest differances in hydralic verse roller rocker valve trains. Swap a 2.5L SOHC head onto the 2.2L block. How this will effect compression ratio and head flow? I don't know. Would the valves even clear the piston? Would the computer freak out? I'm really hoping to find an easy way to gain 10hp or so. Nothing huge just a little pull. -Cybin

11-30-2003, 08:47 PM	#14
Legacy777 Scooby Guru Member#: 4800 Join Date: Mar 2001 Chapter/Region: TXIC Location: Houston, Tx Vehicle: 1990 Legacy & OB XT AWD 6MT EJ22T AWIC Swap	cybin, there's quite a bit of misinformation in this thread, as well as a lack of specific information on your part as to specifics on your car/setup, etc. All 2.5 motors have dual exhaust port heads. The newer 2.2 liter motors (~95 and newer) are the only ones that have the single exhaust port heads. Roller rockers can be swapped around between heads.

11-30-2003, 09:20 PM	#15
cybin Scooby Newbie Member#: 48667 Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: GB, WI	1997 Outback Sport 2.2L 5sp Pretty sure I have an EJ22 SOHC with a MAF. Goals for my car are modest. I'm going to be traveling so no engine/ecu swaps and no parts that are not better then stock. Would like a little more grunt. 30HP added tops.

11-30-2003, 10:24 PM	#16
1 Lucky Texan Scooby Specialist Member#: 46320 Join Date: Oct 2003 Chapter/Region: TXIC Location: Outoftheblue&intotheblack Vehicle: 06 WRX Sportwagon Aspen White	As I understand those threads posted by Josh - putting EJ25 heads on an EJ22 will LOWER CR. That might be OK if you're gonna and forced induction but otherwise I can't see an advantage. maybe I'm wrong. anyone?

11-30-2003, 10:44 PM	#17
Legacy777 Scooby Guru Member#: 4800 Join Date: Mar 2001 Chapter/Region: TXIC Location: Houston, Tx Vehicle: 1990 Legacy & OB XT AWD 6MT EJ22T AWIC Swap	As I said before, read the threads I posted, there's some very good info in there. lucky texan, you're correct in your diagnosis. cybin, What'd I'd probably recommend is not bother with a head swap. Per the threads I posted....putting EJ25 heads on will lower CR, which you don't want to do. Other option is the older style EJ22 heads with dual exhaust ports, but that will give you smaller valves....again you don't want to do. So that leaves you the option to stick with your current heads. I'm not sure if your model came with roller rockers. They can be had from around the 95-96 legacy 2.2's....so maybe yours has them. If you don't have, I'd suggest them. As for cam....you can get custom grinds on cams by paeco, or maybe cobb has something they can do. Other thing you can do to heads if have them ported and polished. I suppose with the porting & polishing, cams, & roller rockers, you may be able to get 30 additional hp....depending on how you set the cam up. That would be my suggestion for what you should look into. I trust the guys that posted the info about swapping the heads & what will happen to CR, so I wouldn't bother with any of that. josh

11-30-2003, 11:26 PM	#18
Slack Scooby Specialist Member#: 17548 Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: Land of No Turn Signals	Josh, it seems like you aren't quite answering what cybin is asking. He wants to swap the CAMS not the heads from the SOHC 2.5 . What I'm wondering is if you could get the cams from any later model subaru with the P2 SOHC 2.5: Forester, Legacy or RS? There are a lot more Legacy's than RS's, so it would be easier to obtain the cams from those cars. Correct me if I'm wrong, but we are just looking for modest gains with the least amount of work and/or money spent. <ocl

11-30-2003, 11:41 PM	#19
Tim Sanderson Scooby Guru Member#: 6486 Join Date: May 2001 Chapter/Region: MWSOC Location: S.E. wisconsin Vehicle: 00 Impreza 2.5 RS Blue Ridge Pearl	Well I am sorry of Any of the info I posted is incorrect. Again I am refering to the service manuals for 2000 model year only.

11-30-2003, 11:53 PM	#20
cybin Scooby Newbie Member#: 48667 Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: GB, WI	So wait, there is a newer 2.5L SOHC engine? My referance for 30hp is with headers, intake, bla, bla. So I guess I'm only looking to get 10hp from the cams. Another thing I'm not taking into account, is that I'm probably going to have to pull the motor anyway to replace the cams. So maybe swapping head won't be so much more. I'm still thinking in inline terms. Anyway thanks for all the help to everyone. I'm happy to see so much support on these boards. -Cybin

12-01-2003, 09:45 AM	#21
Legacy777 Scooby Guru Member#: 4800 Join Date: Mar 2001 Chapter/Region: TXIC Location: Houston, Tx Vehicle: 1990 Legacy & OB XT AWD 6MT EJ22T AWIC Swap	I'm sorry, I must have misread the info about just the cams. I was figuring he'd have to pull the heads anyway.... I don't know the cam profiles on the SOHC EJ25 motors, so I couldn't tell you if or how much gains you would see by swapping stock cams into the EJ22. I would think they would probably work fine, but I would recommend talking to some tuners to verify that.

12-01-2003, 09:47 PM	#22
linsavy Scooby Specialist Member#: 11620 Join Date: Oct 2001 Location: Ontario Vehicle: 1997 GF4-STiV3 clone	Cybin, Why not just swap the whole engine for a DOHC 2.5l from a 1997 to1999 Legacy. Get the ECU too. It is plug and play. Go read up in the Conversions forum. Figure $1500 for a good engine and ECU and a few bucks of labour. Its been done. Your ECU will run it too but the idle will not be great.

12-02-2003, 12:43 AM	#23
Tim Sanderson Scooby Guru Member#: 6486 Join Date: May 2001 Chapter/Region: MWSOC Location: S.E. wisconsin Vehicle: 00 Impreza 2.5 RS Blue Ridge Pearl	The point of the thread was whether or not 2.5 litre cams would fit into 2.2 litre heads. Yours is a good suggestion, but not the kind of info he was looking for.

12-02-2003, 05:26 AM	#24
cybin Scooby Newbie Member#: 48667 Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: GB, WI	I'm trying really hard to avoid a engine swap. I've done them and the cars never quite seem the same. Most run really well, but it's just not the same after. I want to take this car for an extened road trip. Like from wisconsin to alaska to Portland, OR then to San Deigo then home. So I'd like not to have to explain to some backwoods mechanic that the engine is from a legacy but the car is an impreza. Ect. ect. I'm going to do some searches but does anyone know of a good company making SOHC 2.5L cams. If any?

12-02-2003, 08:37 AM	#25
1 Lucky Texan Scooby Specialist Member#: 46320 Join Date: Oct 2003 Chapter/Region: TXIC Location: Outoftheblue&intotheblack Vehicle: 06 WRX Sportwagon Aspen White	Try expanding your search to include the archives at www.usmb.net and check www.obsportal.com You will find there is just not much left in the 2.2l that Subaru isn't already getting out of it. Lighter pulleys, some say, are good for up to 9 more ponies. intake and exhaust may only get a few more ponies. Lighter flywheel might help. Higher lift/greater duration cams may yield a few ponies but the idle may be crap, the fuel economy might suffer, you could get close to needing a piston swap for clearance issues. More grunt down low and better handling could come with just smaller tires. So what if the speedo and odo are off a few percent. I've read a LOT about the 2.2l as I am shopping for an older OBS and there really isn't anything for it short of forced induction, or nitrous. "Spend the money on pulleys, lighter flywheels, tires, rear anti-sway bar, maybe some KYB adjustable struts." That's the 'mantra' you will get. Sad